Pledge of Allegiance: Unconstitutional.

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Back to the topic at hand. I'm an Atheist and I haven't much of a problem with the verse being included in the Pledge. Hell how hard is it just not to say it? If it makes others feel good to say it then why should I care? As long as they don't force me to say it every thing is fine. Hell sometimes I might even say it out of habit, doesn't mean that the words "Under God" means sh!t to me.

Kids don't often understand that they can simply say "no" to their teachers at a young age. When I was in elementary school they would send you to the principle's office for refusing to recite the pledge. Changing that line is the simple solution. If it isn't such a big deal to you, it might as well be changed for the people who do find it to be a big deal.

Who's that, 1% of 1% of 1% of the American Public?

I don't know the numbers. I doubt you do either. I have met plenty of people who feel strongly about changing it, but I wouldn't necessarily consider them an accurate reflection of the entire American public. But some people feel strongly enough to bring it to court, and it would be simple enough to change it back.

 

[Legend]

Who's that, 1% of 1% of 1% of the American Public?

And what does that number indicate? That only that many kids in elementary school were politcally aware enough to understand that it was progaganda and they didn't want to take that crap?

Does the low numbers of disagreement with elementary school children somehow negate the unconstitutional religious propaganda?

Are these few people's rights somehow able to be infringed because of the "will" of the majority (more like ignorant school children).

 

[artikk]

Originally posted by: Legend

Who's that, 1% of 1% of 1% of the American Public?

And what does that number indicate? That only that many kids in elementary school were politcally aware enough to understand that it was progaganda and they didn't want to take that crap?

Does the low numbers of disagreement with elementary school children somehow negate the unconstitutional religious propaganda?

This means that a minority(atheists) try to control the majority(non-atheists)

 

[Legend]

This means that a minority(atheists) try to control the majority(non-atheists)

Bullsh1t. Your rights as an American do not include injecting religious propaganda into school children.

Your allegance to America is in no way religious.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: NeonAura
I don't believe in "God" per say, yet I still recite that part. This is just a bunch of morons too uptight about religion with too much time on their hands. You don't like it, you should just shush about it- either recite it and not mean it or don't recite it. People want everything perfect, it's never going to be. Why not make it under Bush? Then we can have even more morons arguing about it..

Good idea. Under the current president.

 

[artikk]

Originally posted by: Legend

This means that a minority(atheists) try to control the majority(non-atheists)

Bullsh1t. Your rights as an American do not include injecting religious propaganda into school children.

Your allegance to America is in no way religious.

like I said before saying the allegiance is NOT mandatory

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: kogase

I don't know the numbers. I doubt you do either. I have met plenty of people who feel strongly about changing it, but I wouldn't necessarily consider them an accurate reflection of the entire American public. But some people feel strongly enough to bring it to court, and it would be simple enough to change it back.

Text

* "Should remain in the Pledge of Allegiance," 87%.
* "Should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance," 12%.
* "Not sure," 1%.


I'm glad our country is so perfect that we are worrying about 2 words in the pledge.

 

[Legend]

like I said before saying the allegiance is NOT mandatory

And like kogase said earlier, saying the allegiance is mandatory in some elementary schools.

The allegiance should not have anything to do with religious because of the seperation of church and state.

You say that atheists are "controlling" the majority, as if they are attacking the majority. That's not what's happening. It's defensive. Religious people have already crossed the line. People pushing for seperation of church and state are pushing for religious people not to push their beliefs on their kids.

 

[Legend]

* "Should remain in the Pledge of Allegiance," 87%.
* "Should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance," 12%.
* "Not sure," 1%.


I'm glad our country is so perfect that we are worrying about 2 words in the pledge.

We're defending the constitution/America. We're defending the intrinsic rights of all people.

NOT the will of the masses.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Legend

like I said before saying the allegiance is NOT mandatory

And like kogase said earlier, saying the allegiance is mandatory in some elementary schools.

Now *this* I'd like to see evidence of. Is there a "pledge monitor" that watches everybody's mouths and diaphragms?

 

[azazyel]

Just wondering, for the people who this bothers do you want the names of gods removed from everything? As was mentioned earlier (in a veiled way) some of the days of the week are named after Norse gods. Should they be changed since we are ingraining Nordic deities into American children?

 

[artikk]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Legend

like I said before saying the allegiance is NOT mandatory

And like kogase said earlier, saying the allegiance is mandatory in some elementary schools.

Now *this* I'd like to see evidence of. Is there a "pledge monitor" that watches everybody's mouths and diaphragms?

:laugh:

 

[Legend]

Now *this* I'd like to see evidence of. Is there a "pledge monitor" that watches everybody's mouths and diaphragms?

No.

Everyone that was doing the pledge would stand up and put their right hand over their heart and all that crap.

The other kids wouldn't get up. The teacher would send them to the principal's office.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: chambersc

AP: Federal judge in San Francisco declares it unconstitutional to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools. Details soon.

Ok, so as far as I understand it the ruling applies to those 3-4 states that that court rules over. This will go to the USSC and be decided there, once and for all.

It's the "Under God" part that was added in 1953 that is the problem I bet.

It has the word "under god"? Oh noes!

Should any person be forced to be servile to something they do not believe in?

BTW, any respectable Christian would capitalize the word God

 

[Legend]

Just wondering, for the people who this bothers do you want the names of gods removed from everything? As was mentioned earlier (in a veiled way) some of the days of the week are named after Norse gods.

Does naming days of the week or planets after old gods infer that we are "under" them?

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Legend

Now *this* I'd like to see evidence of. Is there a "pledge monitor" that watches everybody's mouths and diaphragms?

No.

Everyone that was doing the pledge would stand up and put their right hand over their heart and all that crap.

The other kids wouldn't get up. The teacher would send them to the principal's office.

Well, then, they were forced to stand up, not forced to say the pledge.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: zendari
Text

* "Should remain in the Pledge of Allegiance," 87%.
* "Should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance," 12%.
* "Not sure," 1%.


I'm glad our country is so perfect that we are worrying about 2 words in the pledge.

I wonder how many of the people who said it should remain said so because they didn't really care enough to support an active effort to change it? Either way, I didn't realize that Americans so overwhelmingly support keeping it in. I don't find that surprising, per se, but sort of agravating. It doesn't change my position, however, unless I'm given a clear reason why it should be kept in.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Legend

like I said before saying the allegiance is NOT mandatory

And like kogase said earlier, saying the allegiance is mandatory in some elementary schools.

Now *this* I'd like to see evidence of. Is there a "pledge monitor" that watches everybody's mouths and diaphragms?

Well, in my school they called them "teachers".

 

[Legend]

Well, then, they were forced to stand up, not forced to say the pledge.

As if that somehow justifies sh1tting all of over the constitution and human rights.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Legend

Now *this* I'd like to see evidence of. Is there a "pledge monitor" that watches everybody's mouths and diaphragms?

No.

Everyone that was doing the pledge would stand up and put their right hand over their heart and all that crap.

The other kids wouldn't get up. The teacher would send them to the principal's office.

You have to stand out of respect to the country and the flag. Nobody forced you to say anything.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: azazyel
Just wondering, for the people who this bothers do you want the names of gods removed from everything? As was mentioned earlier (in a veiled way) some of the days of the week are named after Norse gods. Should they be changed since we are ingraining Nordic deities into American children?

The country of America has no legal jurisdiction over the English language.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Legend

Now *this* I'd like to see evidence of. Is there a "pledge monitor" that watches everybody's mouths and diaphragms?

No.

Everyone that was doing the pledge would stand up and put their right hand over their heart and all that crap.

The other kids wouldn't get up. The teacher would send them to the principal's office.

Well, then, they were forced to stand up, not forced to say the pledge.

If the company you worked for sent tyou to Saudi Arabia for a 6 month job and you needed to take your child with you ... Would you allow the religious whackos there to FORCE him/her to partake in their MADRASSAS ACTIVITIES??? would ya.. huh???

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: FuzzyBee

Originally posted by: Legend

Now *this* I'd like to see evidence of. Is there a "pledge monitor" that watches everybody's mouths and diaphragms?

No.

Everyone that was doing the pledge would stand up and put their right hand over their heart and all that crap.

The other kids wouldn't get up. The teacher would send them to the principal's office.

Well, then, they were forced to stand up, not forced to say the pledge.

If the company you worked for sent tyou to Saudi Arabia for a 6 month job and you needed to take your child with you ... Would you allow the religious whackos there to FORCE him/her to partake in their MADRASSAS ACTIVITIES??? would ya.. huh???

You'd be easier to understand if you turned off the "Hyperbole" switch.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Legend

Well, then, they were forced to stand up, not forced to say the pledge.

As if that somehow justifies sh1tting all of over the constitution and human rights.

*standing* is a violation of your constitutional rights?

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
Well, since we live in a PC world, maybe all the whiners can get it changed to:

"....one nation, under whatever divine benevolent creature you may or may not believe in, indivisible....." :roll:

Gee, this happened in San Francisco? What a :shocked: !!! The next thing you know, we'll have same sex marriages there!! :laugh:

heh

But, seriously, what's wrong with putting it back the way it used to be? The words "Under God" were added in by rabid politicos that weren't far from being fascist.

It would actually make the pledge more powerful and personal if the pledge was taken back to how it was originally written.

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'