POLL:::6800 ultras, or X850XT ?

[ddviper]

Originally posted by: Noob
SLI is such a waste fo money. So you get a 50% - 100% performance increase. The next generation cards will be 50% - 100% better. So what's the point.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: zakee00

There's no current NEED for SLI with any current game. Unless somebody is running a ridiculous resolution, a 6800U or X850XT will do quite nicely for the next couple of years.

SLI is simply bragging rights at this point in time.

define need. do we need to play games? do we need computers? do we need dualcore processors?
that was a stupid thing to say.

Ok. A single video card like the x850XT PE can play any game at high resolution on high detail with reasonable framerate. You have met the requirement of doing the max in the game. Full AA and AF will only hurt performance, not make it better, and massive resolutions aren't supported in most games. Heck, I have one game that doesn't support higher than 1024x768. While SLI with 2 6600GT's might be worthwhile to someone, the OP is taking about SLI with 6800U's, which is completely worthless. Furthermore, as I've said before, future tech is not in SLI, they are moving towards dual gpu, which will be cheaper and faster at the same time. SLI is not futureproof, not useful for high end, and not practical for bang4buck reasons.

Have you bothered to read a single post of mine in this thread? I've systematically debunked every single point you've made against SLI, while conceeding that it is indeed expensive. Read a few of my posts and see if you can adress any of the arguments I brought up. Otherwise, I'm done with this thread, seeing as how you have chosen to ignore logic and reason.

 

[flexy]

X850XT PE *might* have an edge in image quality (antialiasing/aniso performance is better than NV)...and MIGHT have less isues with things like "texture shimmering". I only cite what i heard and read in many posting by various users.

The X850XT PE is a sufficient fast card.

Also..the X850XT PE is cheaper than two 6800 Ultras....ergo: My vote is for X850XT PE

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: Creig
I realize you like SLI, so do I. But it has its place and not everybody needs it.

Can't see SLI as anything more than bragging rights myself.

SLI imho is as dumb as people having "quadrophonic" stereos in the 70s

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: sparkyclarky
Have you bothered to read a single post of mine in this thread? I've systematically debunked every single point you've made against SLI, while conceeding that it is indeed expensive. Read a few of my posts and see if you can adress any of the arguments I brought up. Otherwise, I'm done with this thread, seeing as how you have chosen to ignore logic and reason.

No you haven't.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: sparkyclarky
Have you bothered to read a single post of mine in this thread? I've systematically debunked every single point you've made against SLI, while conceeding that it is indeed expensive. Read a few of my posts and see if you can adress any of the arguments I brought up. Otherwise, I'm done with this thread, seeing as how you have chosen to ignore logic and reason.

No you haven't.

You need to work on those reading comprehension skills then. If you'd like, I'll cut and paste everything else I've said and point out exactly how any argument you made was debunked. Frankly, I don't want to, because it's a waste of my time. You're a decent guy on the DC team, but you need to take a look at this thread and the arguments you've attempted to make - you're digging yourself into a very deep hole.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Alright i think it is time we cleaned this mess up.

#1. SLI can be used for 2 purposes
*Buy two cards now and have the fastest system on the planet/bragging rights; costs a lot of money
*Buy one card now and wait until prices drop and newer cards come out and instead of buying a
whole new video card simply pop another of the same card in and double performance for a lot less

#2. The X850XT(PE) although an EXTREMELY fast card is no where near the caliber of 2x 6800 series
cards. You cant argue the point. A single 6800U is a match for the X850XT(PE). 2 of them slaughters it.
No questions no debate. If you have the money and want to spend it, the computer will be the fastest
available.

#3. There is no edge either way in IQ. Occasionally sights will give a nod to ATI but you cannot notice it
unless you blow the image up ~50x, ands even then it is negligable. IQ is not a factor anymore

#4. Many claim that the game has to support SLI. Where is the information supporting that? SLI is software
(ie. Driver) based. The driver controls when it is used and how it is used, the game has nothing to do
with it. If you notice no difference then you are CPU bound and faster GPU's will have no effect.

#5. The need for SLI is debatable. Innovative... yes, Powerful... yes, costly...yes. SLI is not for everybody,
just because you do not feel that it is necessary does not mean that it is crap.

#6. SM3.0 has yet to be completely supported. Yes it is supported in Far Cry however not natively... only
through a patch. Through benchmarks we see that the entire SM3.0 spec is not supported as ATI cards
run just as fast as Nvidia's while ATI only has 2.0b. A lot of the untapped features in SM3.0 are
Hardware Displacement bump mapping, accelerated Shaders, VS2.0 etc.

#7. You say that you cant tell the difference between 80 and 180fps. Does that mean you are saying that if
Nvidia had a card that was only putting out 80fps max on any game and the ATI was doing 180 you
wouldn't care one bit? I find that hard to believe. Whether or not you admit it you have a bias if that is
what you believe.

#8. People say that the ATI is just as future-proof as the Nvidia cards, and they also say that nothing is
future proof. While there is some validity to those arguments the errors outweigh them. They are right
in saying that no card is future proof as you are comparing it to time. However when comparing to
cards one card can be more future proof than another card. Present day, it is a moot point. Nvidia
simply is more future proof than ATI at this point (until next gen is released). Nvidia offers 32bit FP
support, SM3.0, Fully Programmable PVP (Yes i know the issues at hand but it is still a feature and it
still works most of the time). Now not to say ATI is horrible as they offer a huge cariety of features as
well, such as New Compression Methods, Hardware Video Acceleration (Offloads load from CPU to the
Pixel Shaders), and SM2.0b.

{Edit: As for the driver issues, ATI is working off of a very mature architecture. As seen in my Video Card drivers thread they do not let a lot of beta drivers out. Nvidia releases beta drivers sporadically, people mod are always modding them. Additionally Nvidia is working off of an entirely new architecure with a new feature as well, give them time, they have not released that many OFFICIAL drivers with which to judge them by. Drivers are not an issue at this point, both sides have their respective bugs. I would say ATI is doing very well of late, OTOH Nvidia still wins in Linux. Both sides have their faults, weaknesses.}

In conclusion, both cards are awesome and you definately get your moneys worth of performance and features. The X850XT(PE) being a "fall" refresh does beat the 6800U, the X800XT(PE) edges out a few more victories as well, however the 6800U does hold up very well despite running at a slower clockspeed, and being a new archiecture. Either card you pick you will not be disappointed, however if you want the best you can get with money not being a factor, or you simply want a cheaper upgrade path for the "semi-near" future SLI is a viable option and should be considered.

-Kevin

 

[housecat]

wow, new thread and sticky for gamingphreek.

nice and concise asswhooping dude.

thread title: "gamingphreek lays smack down on asshats who pretend sli sucks"

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Alright i think it is time we cleaned this mess up.



#2. The X850XT(PE) although an EXTREMELY fast card is no where near the caliber of 2x 6800 series
cards. You cant argue the point. A single 6800U is a match for the X850XT(PE). 2 of them slaughters it.
No questions no debate. If you have the money and want to spend it, the computer will be the fastest
available.

-Kevin

http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/sli/index.x?pg=6

I don't think SLI win by much in all games at this point. See the 1600x1200 4X/8X AA/AF scores? 110 fps for SLI Ultras vs 100 fps for a X800 XT PE. I'm not sure about most of you, but if it were my money I'd buy the single card. If I were given the cards, then I'd sell one or both 6800U and still go with one card. By the time the SLI shines, the next gens cards will be out.

How many of you would be using a FX5900 SLI config now over a single 6800U if it was possible?

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: housecat
wow, new thread and sticky for gamingphreek.

nice and concise asswhooping dude.

thread title: "gamingphreek lays smack down on asshats who pretend sli sucks"

And his statement is not biased also giving pros and cons for both ATi cards and nVidia cards.

Good going phreek.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
#7. You say that you cant tell the difference between 80 and 180fps. Does that mean you are saying that if Nvidia had a card that was only putting out 80fps max on any game and the ATI was doing 180 you wouldn't care one bit? I find that hard to believe. Whether or not you admit it you have a bias if that is what you believe.

We are comparing one card with 2 cards. If ATI were doing the SLI, I still wouldn't get it. I already told you, double ultras is what's retarded, not SLI. And look, someone posted the benchmarks to prove it. 10 fps gain! Hell, the x800XT PE even BEATS the Ultras in SLI! Who cares if it's faster at massive resolutions, who the hell games at those resolutions? 5 people? What games even support them? This arguement is ridiculous.

 

[SilverTrine]

You do realize that that argument applies to every single graphics card over $50, correct? I mean, why buy a 6800GT for a 50-100% performance increase over a 9800Pro,

I agree. I picked x850 though as I believe it to be the better card.

 

[XBoxLPU]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

#4. Many claim that the game has to support SLI. Where is the information supporting that? SLI is software
(ie. Driver) based. The driver controls when it is used and how it is used, the game has nothing to do
with it. If you notice no difference then you are CPU bound and faster GPU's will have no effect.


-Kevin

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzEx

SLI is profile based

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
#7. You say that you cant tell the difference between 80 and 180fps. Does that mean you are saying that if Nvidia had a card that was only putting out 80fps max on any game and the ATI was doing 180 you wouldn't care one bit? I find that hard to believe. Whether or not you admit it you have a bias if that is what you believe.

We are comparing one card with 2 cards. If ATI were doing the SLI, I still wouldn't get it. I already told you, double ultras is what's retarded, not SLI. And look, someone posted the benchmarks to prove it. 10 fps gain! Hell, the x800XT PE even BEATS the Ultras in SLI! Who cares if it's faster at massive resolutions, who the hell games at those resolutions? 5 people? What games even support them? This arguement is ridiculous.

Thankyou for the compliments.

The benchmarks that you shown are obviously not taking advantage of SLI, or are CPU limited (Probably not taking advantage). As 2x 6800Us WILL beat any other card on the market. YOu can not argue the point! 1 card is a match 2 cards are well above that performance. Obviously they are either CPU limited or do not have SLI configured properly.

You know say who plays games at those resolutions. Well obviously the people who buy SLI would play games at such resolutions! You go on to say that double ultras are what is retarded not SLI!?!? What in the world is that supposed to mean double ultras IS SLI. You are showing a very strong bias, or you do not have a clue what you are talking about.

As for the |H| right up. I stand corrected. That is the only report i have seen of that sort. Still, there will be revisions out to correct this so not much to worry about, downside...yes, but still it will be fixed.

This is a much more accurate representation. And still it is CPU bound.

-Kevin

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
You go on to say that double ultras are what is retarded not SLI!?!? What in the world is that supposed to mean double ultras IS SLI.

I think what he means is that the idea of SLI is good, but buying a pair of 6800U's for use with today's games isn't.

As you've already mentioned, SLI also has the advantage that you don't need to buy a pair of cards today but can purchase one now and only purchase the 2nd one when you need the extra horsepower a year or two down the road. By then (I hope!) prices on the card will have fallen and you will have saved a few $ by waiting until you really needed the extra processing power.

 

[KoolDrew]

Neither. 6800GT for me.

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
#7. You say that you cant tell the difference between 80 and 180fps. Does that mean you are saying that if Nvidia had a card that was only putting out 80fps max on any game and the ATI was doing 180 you wouldn't care one bit? I find that hard to believe. Whether or not you admit it you have a bias if that is what you believe.

We are comparing one card with 2 cards. If ATI were doing the SLI, I still wouldn't get it. I already told you, double ultras is what's retarded, not SLI. And look, someone posted the benchmarks to prove it. 10 fps gain! Hell, the x800XT PE even BEATS the Ultras in SLI! Who cares if it's faster at massive resolutions, who the hell games at those resolutions? 5 people? What games even support them? This arguement is ridiculous.

Basically you are saying: you are too cheap to buy SLI, and you dont even have the money to afford a monitor to use those really high resolutions.

Fine. Guess your point isnt so overwhelming that "SLI sucks", or, "just say no to SLI" is it? Considering the above. That you are too cheap for it anyway.


Yeah, its a Ferrari, theres SOME lost gains, but in other parts (Doom3 Engine performance) there is 100% gain over ATI's weenie X850XT PE. (http://www.gamepc.com/labs/vie....asp?id=x850xt&page=8)

And you know whats even MORE sad? Is that the Doom3 engine is EASILY the most advanced engine on the market, to be the winner in the engine with full per pixel unified shading and lighting engine is HUGE.

Absolutely a blowout in favor of SLI and Nvidia. Basically it shows how EXTREMELY well the NV40s are going to scale in the future, compared to the ATIs.

Even if the game is created mainly for the NV40 architechure... the problem is that both the NV40 and Doom3 engine are simply (without bias), MORE ADVANCED THAN ATI AND ANY OTHER GAME ENGINE ON THE MARKET.


And then you look at the Unreal 3.0 engine, which is as advanced or more so than the Doom3 engine, that doesnt even work without SM3.0 and you have a real problem with the longevity of your really fast 9700 Pro.





Bottom line and sum up, NV40s and SLI absolutely does destroy ATI and their lackluster technology.


On top of that, the SLI drivers are in their INFANCY. Your ArtX drivers are nearly completely maxed out, performance wise.

BOTH the NV40 and SLI drivers are essentially in their infancy. Yet perform amazingly well considering.

Its only going to get faster and faster, from both NV40 optimizations and SLI optimizations..



SLI is not a waste, nor something to "just say no too".



Its merely something out of YOUR price range, out of YOUR class.
When you graduate from noob status, get a decent paying job and education you'll learn not to talk badly about peoples' possesions that are head and shoulders above your setup.

I AM getting a SLI setup, and I'll be MORE than happy to go head to head with your POS x850xt pe. You can overclock and I can overclock.


I'm sick of you and your FUD.
The gauntlet has been laid down.

Now its time for you and your ATI to represent all the crap you've been talking on SLI.

 

[Todd33]

Is there anyone here more of a fanoy than housecat? Does he get the award for the forums or did we miss someone?

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Is there anyone here more of a fanoy than housecat? Does he get the award for the forums or did we miss someone?

I haven't met anyone more fanboish than him.

 

[housecat]

sure im a fanboy. wahtever. i'd rather look like a fanboy than a fvcking idiot like you.

and you think the world revolves around you.


watch out everyone, SLi is a rip because malak says it is.

 

[Todd33]

Take your meds cat boy. Come back when you can debate the technical and practical pros and cons without screaming like a mad man.

 

[housecat]

screaming like a madman?

ok. if thats what you got out of it.


again, rather be the "screaming madman" than head up the ass moron who writes off SLI because he can't afford it and his rig wouldnt do it justice.

 

[Creig]

housecat - Could you take it down a few levels please? And just accept the fact that not EVERYBODY wants or needs SLI?

 

[housecat]

thats fine.

then why doenst this asshat accept that not everyones needs are met by a x850??

start lecturing him.

but we couldnt do that, hes fighting the evil nvidia. so cheer him on, and tell me to stfu. when i never said anything bad about his precious x850 how "people dont need it".. so i'd suggest you lecture him.

 

[Drayvn]

Are you having a bad day, or are you this pissed off all the time?