Poll: Creation vs Evolution

[cuteybunny]

evolution confuses me, creation confuses me, I don't know what to believe anymore.
both are very complicated and maybe this isn't the time for us to know yet.
and the bible is not helping us much to explain all these yet. it is nothing more then ancient history of 2000 years old, revised, rewritten over, and over again. hmm someone must edited many many time as well to make it seem more sense so most will believe it. When we become more knowledgeable sometime in the future this will become clear, how we get here, what is our purpose, and the origin of the solar system.

 

[SmackdownHotel]

<< In re"Some people already mentioned this, but evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life, so what are you guys arguing about?"

as mentioned above, the word evolution has more than one meaning, and one defined meaning is "Organic evolution as opposed to belief in the special creation of each individual species as an immutable form, conceives of life as having had its beginnings in a simple primordial protoplasmic mass (probably originating in the sea) from which, through the long eras of time, arose all subsequent living forms." Encyclopedia.com

Dave >>



A quote from an encyclopedia? Hah. Try using one from a scientific text. There is a difference between the definitions of evolution; one is for the lay public, the other is the true meaning. Origin of speciation. I can't believe people in this day and age still doubt evolution. It's all around us, and not just in different "species," but it's seen at the molecular level in so many ways that I couldn't possibly hope to list them all.


As far as the origin of life...remember the Miller/Urey experiment? Now I'm not here to argue genesis or whatever, since I will admit that it is kind of sketchy, but the fact of the matter is that it is entirely possible that life could have started on its own. But as far as evolution goes, it's a closed case. It is fact. And I use the term "fact" in the relative sense. Science doesn't prove anything, but it sure as hell supports its claims with evidence. That's the most rudimentary concept of what science is and what it does.

 

[exp]

It seems like most Creationist objections to biological evolution are, as usual, based on erroneous non-scientific definitions plucked from encyclopedias, philosophical texts, or (lol--> ) dictionaries. So let's cut to the chase:

1. Does anyone here deny that the gene pool of a population of organisms changes over time (i.e. micro-evolution)??

2. Does anyone here deny that new species are gradually created--either through extended micro-evolution or through separate mechanisms--over time (i.e. macro-evolution)??

If you can accept the two above phenomena of micro- and macro-evolution (both of which have been observed repeatedly) as facts then **CONGRATULATIONS**; you have just accepted the Theory of Evolution without precluding the possibility of a divine creation. Cast your insecurities aside and sleep soundly tonight.

If you deny either of the above phenomena then please explain why. And for God's sake, try to support your argument with something more convincing than a random Bible quotation.

 

[IGBT]

Gawd created evolution..how's that??

 

[petrek]

In re"1. Does anyone here deny that the gene pool of a population of organisms changes over time (i.e. micro-evolution)??"

To deny that the gene pool of a population of organisms (kind) changes over time is to deny the facts. It is quite obvious that I am different than my parents, it is also quite obvious that men in africa are different from men in china, etc, etc, but we are all still men. And considering that all races currently extant are the offspring of Noah's sons, the word of God is in total agreement with the scientific fact that the gene pool of a population of organisms (man for eg.) changes over time.

And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life..And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth and Ham is the father of Canaan. These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.


In re"2. Does anyone here deny that new species are gradually created--either through extended micro-evolution or through separate mechanisms--over time (i.e. macro-evolution)??"

I deny it. As of now there is NO scientific evidence to prove that one species/kind of animal is capable of producing another species/kind of animal (eg. if you breed to different types of dog you will get a dog that is genetically different from both it's parents but is none the less still a dog. You can't breed two types of dog and get a cat.)

Dave

 

[petrek]

In response to the questions that Daxxax asks:

1) a)Why did God create man even though He knew that billions would end up in hell?

b)Why does God continue to wait to return?


a) To eliminate the existance and eternal delight of the billions of souls who have been and continue to be saved by the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ simply because of the sefishness of billions who would be and continue to be willfully ignorant and rebellious towards Him would be unjust-a quality God does not posess.

b) God continues to wait because many people continue to accept the eternal salvation that He has provided for those who willingly trust in Jesus Christ.


2) God created the Angels perfectly (as he did also of man), why did Lucifer turn against him.

Lucifer said in his heart, " I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High"
Lucifer (Satan) turned against God not out of anger but out of pride.


For continued reading on the subject I would recommend the book "In Defense of the Faith" by Dave Hunt which gives Biblical answers to challenging questions and can be found here

Dave

 

[SnowPunk98]

Christian here and we were created by God we did not evolve thats crazy talk

 

[tarzanx]

<< Can we end this kind of crap already? I am a practicing Catholic, and I love the Church, but come on, anyone who doesn't have their head stuck up their ass knows we evolved. End of story. Period. >>



That's says it! couldn't agree more! thinking that we were created is just a leftover superstition from 1000 years ago... incredible that people still cling onto it!! I guess people will always be afraid to be alone without some superbeing that can give us a meaning with this otherwise meaningless life... face it: there is no God in the sky and no, there is no real purpose with us being here... we just are...! buts thats not so bad after all ... is it??

 

[tarzanx]

Actually I never heard of the socalled "Creationists" before I read this thread and others like it here... This is the 21st century and people still won't accept that the Earth is not flat and there is no God in the sky....

But another thing that can be hard to explain is that nobody knows what started the universe expanding and evolving. But I don't think that I was some single superbeing that did it..!!

 

[petrek]

"Ye Israel are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen...before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed,...therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God" Isaiah 43:12

Dave

 

[petrek]

In re"Earth is not flat"

can you please point out to me where in the word of God it says that the earth is flat?

Dave

 

[tarzanx]

Oh man, please don't reply with a passage from a 2000 years old book...

And the "Earth is flat" stuff is what people believed some hundred years ago when the church refused to acknowledge the scientists saying it was round and not the center of the universe. It was sacrilege to say that WE, the humans are not center of the universe... of course I know that you don't think the Earth is flat!

 

[petrek]

can you please point out to me where in the word of God it says that the earth is flat?

Dave

 

[Elledan]

<< can you please point out to me where in the word of God it says that the earth is flat?

Dave >>

Word of god? Which god?

 

[petrek]

The same God that said this:

"Ye Israel are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen...before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed,...therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God" Isaiah 43:12

Dave

 

[TheOmegaCode]

Ok, I know for a fact beings evolve... look at different pigmentations! But I'm not denying there would be some sort of supreme entity(who's to say there isn't something in the atom). Not a god, that is omnipitant... or perfect. Really, would a perfect being create a race of irrational bipeds?

 

[tarzanx]

<< The same God that said this: >>



Oh so that what "God" says. Or did you read in some 2000 years old outdated book... how do YOU know that this is the word of some socalled "God"??? it's just words in a book... you would have a hard time convincing me of something else

But I'm not really an atheist. I think that I'm a pretty spiritual being, but what I don't approve of is that people read this book (The Bible) and instead of trying to think for themselves takes this as the one and only truth...!!!!

 

[exp]

<< As of now there is NO scientific evidence to prove that one species/kind of animal is capable of producing another species/kind of animal (eg. if you breed to different types of dog you will get a dog that is genetically different from both it's parents but is none the less still a dog. You can't breed two types of dog and get a cat.) >>



You are wrong. The nature of speciation is such that it is difficult to observe directly, yet still we have accumulated large amounts of evidence that it does in fact occur. A commonly used definition of "species" is that two populations consist of separate species if they are incapable of interbreeding to produce fertile offspring. Based on that definition speciation events, identified by the onset of reproductive incompatibility between popultions, have been observed repeatedly. You can find a sampling of those experiments here (towards the end of the page).

 

[Elledan]

<< The same God that said this:

"Ye Israel are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen...before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed,...therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God" Isaiah 43:12

Dave >>

Funny, the other currently existing religions (about 999 of them) have similar 'sacred texts'. So, in your arrogance or blind faith, you say that what is written in those 'holy texts' of 'your' religion is true, and that what is written in any other 'sacred' text is false?

I'm sorry, but all evidence so far supports the theory that religions are a mere part of the 'skeleton' of more primitive civilizations. It ensures that there's a 'bond' between all of the members in a society.
More advanced civilizations do not need such a thing as a religion to create a bond between its individuals.

 

[CSFM]

The main thing to remember is.... ohhh, I have forgotten... ohh well. This is never going to go anywhere this thread.

But if Christians are such nice charitable people... Why is the one that is in charge of the USA and all before him so keen to kill millions to protect the few? hhhhmmmmmmm makes me wonder....

Anyhow... chew on that one...

 

[Speedy3D!]

who created the stuff we evolved from?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

To paraphrase a kids song:

This is the thread that never ends, and it goes on and on my friends
Somebody starting posting here not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue posting here forever just because...

This is the thread that never ends (Repeats ad nauseum)

Extra points for knowing where this song comes from

 

[petrek]

In re "But if Christians are such nice charitable people... Why is the one that is in charge of the USA and all before him so keen to kill millions to protect the few? hhhhmmmmmmm makes me wonder...."

Someone who professes to believe in Christ is not necessarily a Christian.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in they name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity"
Mathew 7:21-23

Dave

 

[Elledan]

<< who created the stuff we evolved from? >>

Perhaps... perhaps you're forgetting about the Second Law of Thermodynamics: matter can neither be created nor destroyed.

All matter was already there and was never created.

Yes, I know that that is hard to grasp for beings who are trapped in linear time and their own little world they've constructed just to keep reality out, but it's undeniable.

 

[petrek]

In re"Funny, the other currently existing religions (about 999 of them) have similar 'sacred texts'. So, in your arrogance or blind faith, you say that what is written in those 'holy texts' of 'your' religion is true, and that what is written in any other 'sacred' text is false?"

The statement made in the Christian text (the bible) by Jesus Christ "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6, necessarily implies that only the bible contains the entire truth, and that all other religious texts are false. (note, that it is God that says the bible is true and that all other religions are false, not me as you imply)

The fact that other existing religions usually contain some kind of creation, and flood account like that found in the bible would be an obvious expectation. Adam and Eve would have passed the story of their creation to their children, who would have passed it on to their children...who would have passed it on to Noah, who would have passeed it on to his children, and they would have passed on the story of the creation along with the story of the flood which destroyed all mankind except for Noah, his 3 sons and their 4 wives. The story of the creation and the flood would continue to be passed down from generation to generation. And at the tower of Babel God confounds the peoples language and scatters them upon the face of the earth. Thus you find a common creation, flood account throughout many religions, even those found in remote villages around the world.

Your suggestion, however, that about 999 currently existing religions contain a similar historical, scientific, and prophetically accurate text as that of bible is one based solely on opinion and not the facts. There are maybe a handful of religious texts which quote verbatim passages from the bible (which incidentally was completed around 2000 years ago, but was started some 3500 years ago by moses who wrote the first 5 books of the bible as God inspired him.) The Koran written about 1400 years ago, and the book of mormon written about 200 years ago are the two I am most familiar with.

Dave