Poll: Creation vs Evolution

[petrek]

In re"all scientific evidence for evolution"

What evidence?

 

[Nefrodite]

oh thats right, theres no evidence for anything. perhaps now you'll understand there is no real evidence for your religious belief either.

 

[petrek]

Actually there is a lot of evidence for many things. There just happens to be none for evolution.

 

[tarzanx]

You're relly impossible to discuss with:



<< In re"Isn't there about a billion muslims in the world?? so what makes you right and them wrong?? their belief is untrue and yours is true??" >>



What's your point???? different religions contradict eachother and all say that they are they one and only belief. And you say that every other god than then one you believe in is fake? Right?? so that must make that billion muslims and all other beliefs wrong? if not please try to deepen your answer a bit.



<< Actually there is a lot of evidence for many things. There just happens to be none for evolution. >>


Hmmm, and there is just loads of evidence of the bible?? all that stuff with Israel's history right?? noone buys that! Everything I know of points towards the theory of evolution being correct. There has been some replies saying that if Evolution is only a theory then it does not need to be correct. OK then, but Quantum Theory is also a theory but all observations show it to be true. That's how theories work. And the same applies to Evolution. Field observations seem to support the theory. And I don't see anything supporting the Creation theory appart from some arguments that have been totally destroyes in this thread. And yes: they have! just read back.

Since Evolution is a theory it cannot be proved as goes with other scientific theories. But the theory is a good theory with field observations supporting it. Like the theory of Quantum which is not a complete theory - it does not include gravity - the theory of Evolution might be improved later on.

 

[busmaster11]

<< gah whats your point, aliens with a sense of humor could have beamed stuff down that they knew would fossilize just to leave their mark. or maybe people from another dimension, or mythical land of middle earth used their magic powers to alter the planet and dump down some fun stuff. or maybe things used to pop in and out of existence for no apparent reason back then, an animal here, an animal there, and they just fossilize after. or perhaps even satan spontaneously created fossils and all scientific evidence for evolution to screw with us.. yes that must be it. go down that route and its pointless. >>



Just because you can bring up ludicrious fictional scenarios doesn't mean you have a valid comparison. Open your eyes. Evolution seems like the only possible theory to you - despite the incredible stretch and leap of faith it takes to believe all the "scientific" assumptions that go along with it.

We don't know the story - either about evolution or about metaphysics. Our scientific theories continue to have the rug pulled from under them, over and over. The inability to discover the Higgs boson, the theory behind the Higgs field which explains WHY ANYTHING has mass... is forcing physicists to completely rethink their standard model, which has
been around for 30-40 years, since the Higgs field was first brought up...

You may not see it that way from your myopic viewpoint, but any objective observer can see that you are relying on just as big a leap of faith as as any Creationist.

 

[petrek]

Tarzanx, please pay more attention to what is said.

In an earlier post to Elledan, I said "Your suggestion, however, that about 999 currently existing religions contain a similar historical, scientific, and prophetically accurate text as that of bible is one based solely on opinion and not the facts. There are maybe a handful of religious texts which quote verbatim passages from the bible (which incidentally was completed around 2000 years ago, but was started some 3500 years ago by moses who wrote the first 5 books of the bible as God inspired him.) The Koran written about 1400 years ago, and the book of mormon written about 200 years ago are the two I am most familiar with."

I also made these statements in earlier posts:

"before I became a Christian and accepted the bible as the literal word of God I made sure the facts (historical, scientific, and prophetic) supported it."

"The statement made in the Christian text (the bible) by Jesus Christ "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6, necessarily implies that only the bible contains the entire truth, and that all other religious texts are false. (note, that it is God that says the bible is true and that all other religions are false, not me as you imply)"

"While God's word has undergone numerous attacks as to it's accuracy over the course of time, once all the facts were in it prevailed. Even today there are numerous "facts" which contradict what the bible says, but a "fact" is NOT a fact. And until such a time as a fact proves the word of God to be untrue, I will continue to regard it for what it claims to be, the Truth."


Then, more recently, this exchange took place:


YOU said "Isn't there about a billion muslims in the world?? so what makes you right and them wrong?? their belief is untrue and yours is true??"

I asked this question in response "Have you read the Koran?"

Instead of replying to my simple question, YOU responded by first quoting what YOU initially said, and then added "What's your point???? different religions contradict eachother and all say that they are they one and only belief. And you say that every other god than then one you believe in is fake? Right?? so that must make that billion muslims and all other beliefs wrong? if not please try to deepen your answer a bit."


If my earlier statements (quoted above) aren't clear enough to you as to why I believe the bible is true, and all other religions are false I will gladly restate for you why I believe the bible is true, and all other religions are false.

I would still like to know however, whether you have read the Koran?, or, for that matter, whether you have read the Bible?

Dave

 

[Halogen]

i agree with my science teacher of last year, his first words were for the year:
'religious and ignorant are interchangable, if you want to pass in this class i suggest you leave god behind at the door'

according to the bible, earth is only about 10,000 years old but it is PROVEN through math and the knowlage of how half lives of carbon work that the earth is over 5 BILLION years old

according to the bible, the human race was created by 2 people, if that was true then why are we not all completely retarded with 1' thick glasses???? insest is PROVEN to cause mental retardation yet nobody doubts for a second that Einstein was a genious with his E=mc^2 which won him a nobel prize because it explained how the theory of fusion really worked

according to the bible if all men were created from 2 people then why are white people white and black people black, why are Asians not white or black? it is all explained by Darwin's theory of natural selection and mutation and natural adaptaion, natural adaptation and mutation are theories of science which the bible flat out denies even though it is proven to be true

if you have actualy read the end of Genesis you would notice that it says God banished women to be forever afraid of snakes and for snakes to crawl on their bellies forever, how is it that you cannot deny that some women actually LIKE snakes? are you saying that if you like a snake you NEED to be a man? are you on crack!?!?

the theory of marry being pregnant without having sex is totaly rediculous, the way that humans are developed, a fetus has 2 gonads, if they go up they turn into ovaries but if they go down they turn into testicles hence men and women having different sex organs but it is a fact that hermaphrodites (both sex organs) CANNOT have children. this means that marry could not have been a hermaphrodite but it takes an X and an X or an X and a Y chromozome to create a human being with the desision of which chromozome to pass being chosen by the body of the male involved in sex. because marry could not possibly produce both sperm and and egg it means that SPERM WAS CREATED FROM NOTHING which disobeys the laws of conservation of mass and energy. mass cannot be created nor destroyed but transfered from 1 form to another.

my teacher was right, religious and ignorant are interchangable

 

[petrek]

Halogen, in re your above post.

Please refer to previous posts.

 

[Moonbeam]

Petrek, when you say:

"The statement made in the Christian text (the bible) by Jesus Christ "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6, necessarily implies that only the bible contains the entire truth, and that all other religious texts are false. (note, that it is God that says the bible is true and that all other religions are false, not me as you imply)"

you make an assumption that you understand what is being said. You assume, for example, from such words as 'but by me' that you know who the speaker is. Who is the man who knows that the kingdom of heaven is within us? I don't mean who says it. I don't mean who thinks it. I mean who is he who knows it. He is whom he pleases.

 

[petrek]

Moonbeam, that site is definitely good for a laugh.

Dave

 

[Moonbeam]

Doubtless a fitting reflection.

 

[petrek]

Moonbeam, have you read the Bible?

 

[Halogen]

but seriously, im not saying i don't belive in A god im just saying that the bible has been wrong a thousand times before so what makes this one so special?

remember in exodus where it said god caused extreme hail and frogs to fall from the sky?
the EXACT same thing happened when Mount St. Helen blew up a few years back, a special presentation on TV compared what was said in Exodus with what happened like 10 years ago and here are some of the parts

the bible said frogs appeared from nowhere and were just EVERYWHERE, in a newscast at the town closest to the mountain the whole area was completely overrun with frogs, they were EVERYWHERE

the bible said that god caused fiery hail to fall from the sky, the reporter on the scene said it was hailing so hard that it would sting very bad and leave a harsh burning sensation and it hailed all day and night for like 3 days

and through some scientific study or something like that it proved that some mountain in Egypt really did explode a few thousand years before Christ was alive

the whole idea of this god of yours having magical powers is retarded now just admit that religious people are stupid

 

[petrek]

Once again Halogen, please refer to previous posts.

 

[StUdMaN]

the best way to conquer nature is to submit to her laws
questioning everything is just as stupid as questioning nothing

 

[littlegohan]

<< <<Had you have done your research prior to posting you would have realized that the comparisons you suggest are completely invalid.>>

Would you like a list of the failed prophecies of the bible? >>



I would like you to tell me what.

 

[Halogen]

<< questioning everything is just as stupid as questioning nothing >>



you do not deserve to live in the modern world, WTF DO YOU THINK SCIENCE IS?!?!?!
you are on a computer yet you are dead set against research to develope science in any way, you are such a total hypocrit! stupid idiots who hate what they use but insist on using it should be killed

 

[busmaster11]

<<

<< questioning everything is just as stupid as questioning nothing >>



you do not deserve to live in the modern world, WTF DO YOU THINK SCIENCE IS?!?!?!
you are on a computer yet you are dead set against research to develope science in any way, you are such a total hypocrit! stupid idiots who hate what they use but insist on using it should be killed >>



Halogen - I rely on science to offer me living comforts. I rely on the medicine, the technology and the convenience it offers to make me happy, and I credit inventions of man for these things. Having said that, science does not offer me answers to the deepest questions in life. Things like evolution, metaphysics, and the supernatural and death. The difference between you and I is that I realize the distinction between the two needs, and you don't. You don't feel the need to because your comfort zone is based on the same arrogance that scientists have that makes them cliam they can and should eventually be able to explain everything.

Science often bites off more than it can chew - not that there's anything wrong with what they do. The mistake is made by people like you, Halogen, who takes an implicit leap of faith to completely believe everything science tells you, even if they are constantly provn wrong and that their current theories are based on theories which are based on theories which are based on observations... You just don't realize it because the mere idea of associating Christianity with science threatens you.

So yes. Read more and spew less, please.

 

[Halogen]

well i think you will be right more often if you blindly follow science than if you blindly follow religion

some of the things we know in science are just insane! and the stuff we plan to find out are even more radical...

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Evolution was pretty good, but Evolution 2 was better. I have it for my NGPC, but have not played that version yet.

Which console did Creation come out on?

 

[Halogen]

probably Game Cube with the other crappy GC games

hey whats the max time limit for editting?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Halogen- I'm curious. It seems you have great faith in science. Tell me, what is you experience with it? Meaning, what advanced degrees do you have. Have you done research? In what field? Academia or industry. Do you, as Shakespeare would say "know a hawk from a handsaw"? Not to diss you, but there are a great number of scientists who know that science has limitations. That human knowlege is forever limited. Don't come back with "Yeah, but religion is suck and doesn't say anything" or words to that effect. Let's stay with what I consider a problem I have encountered. That is making science a replacement for religion, and in effect creating a new religion. What is your rational response?

 

[Halogen]

science has no limitations.

we will figure it all out sooner or later

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

<< science has no limitations. we will figure it all out sooner or later >>



I assume from the above that you are in high school. That's OK, most everyone started there. If you consider science to be a formal logical system, it HAS to be incomplete. It is not the fault of the scientist or of science. It's just the way it is. You might want to read up on Kurt Godel. Here is a link for a primer. Godel. I'm sure there is more and better out there on the web, but you can find out for yourself.

In a nutshell, any formal logical system must contain unknowable truths. An oversimplification, but accurate enough. In truth, Godel was speaking of mathematics, but this distinction is trivial, as scientists must use mathematics to describe the physical state of a system.

FYI, my background is in science. Science is merely a tool, or method, to determine that which can be known and not an end in itself. Consider particle physics. What are the smallest particles? Do I hear quarks? Well... there have been some experiments that may show a "granularity" in quarks. That suggests quarks may be made of yet smaller particles. How do you find out? Why smash them with particles of ever increasing energies. To get to the last level of reality and be sure that it is indeed "the end of the line", you would need a particle accelerator of literally infinite energy. Now is science going to produce infinite energy densities? Nope.

Also remember that everything you know about science is wrong( or at least 1/2 of it). Things that were scientifically "known"

Trains could not exceed 30 mph, because that would create a vacuum that would sufficate passengers

In the days following Maxwell a scientist said in effect that there was nothing left to know. We have found all the answers to all the interesting questions. Soon after some unexpected lines in spectra caused a cascade of events and experiments which led to the "trivial" discovery of quantum mechanics.

Last to consider- I have known and worked with a number of scientists who are highly regarded. NONE of them has ever demonstrated the belief that science can answer all questions. It simply is not an all seeing magic mirror.

 

[Halogen]

im not saying that science can explain everything spur of the moment, im saying science can explain everything that does not change or predict what will change. example to help out:
sometimes cops will be in a gun fight in closed quarters with some other people, there may be a billion bullets fired but not 1 person is hit. it seems almost impossible to imagine something so crazy but things like that happen

as for science to explain what just seems to happen i think we can do it. why does gravity occur? we don't know right now but i honestly think we will figure it out
if 200 years ago i went up to you and said that you were made of small things called 'atoms' which are created of a tiny center with some little things that revolve around the center and that most of everything is really nothing, you would call me a stupid moron wouldn't you?
some scientists have aparently been able to accelerate light, i have no idea how it works but they did it
up until now light was always the same speed if in the same fluid (theoretically vacuum) and that was unchangable.. until now

the only thing stopping us in science right now is 3 things mainly:
- not enough money
- we don't have infinite energy
- brain freeze (not knowing what to do next)