Prebuilt PC cheaper than building

[bigboxes]

LOL. There's someone living in the past. You haven't actually gotten the change to try out a decent SSD, have you?

Edit: SSDs are anywhere from 10x to 100x as fast as a HDD, where it counts.

It's at least a magnitude of 10 on the experience. You definitely notice it. I came from a Raptor that gave that same feeling when I first used it. SSD goes to the next level. Other than non-volatile ram, there's nothing else that effects as much the performance of your computer.

 

[bigboxes]

They are known to fail now and then. And I have had very good results with Western Digital hard drives. I use what I trust most. SSD's have a place, but if I used them, it would be for the OS only, with all my downloads and personal files on another totally seperate drive.

Well, yeah. That's what we do. However, working with photos and video on an SSD is a good feeling to have. I back up everything on a regular basis and toss it on the file server when I'm done working on a file with my main rig.

 

[bigboxes]

@VirtualLarry, is your Pentiums your best CPU (on all your personal machines)?

 

[VirtualLarry]

SSD's have a place, but if I used them, it would be for the OS only, with all my downloads and personal files on another totally seperate drive.

That's a totally normal thing to do. A lot of "gamer"-type rigs, have the OS on SSD, and their Steam collection and media on a 7200RPM HDD.

One thing that you might consider, is a 1TB "FireCuda" SSHD from Seagate. Boots fast like SSD, but (reliable?) like a HDD. Plus, it has a 5-year warranty, like the WD Black drives do.

Been thinking of picking a few up for builds. BestBuy on ebay had the 1TB desktop 3.5" model for $59.99 + tax recently, but they appear to have sold out. Regular price is like $80 for the 1TB model.

I've used a 2TB prior-generation 7200RPM desktop Seagate SSHD drive, before they were called Firecuda, and I thought that it performed pretty well. Mine was reliable, for as long as I used it. Some Newegg reviews were claiming that they failed early and often, but I didn't have that experience.

 

[VirtualLarry]

@VirtualLarry, is your Pentiums your best CPU (on all your personal machines)?

Not quite. I have several Ryzen 5 1600 "big" ATX boxes, and a couple of mini-STX DeskMini PCs, with Intel Pentium Kaby Lake G4600 CPUs in them. Those are my mostly daily-drivers, I used the Ryzen rigs for number-crunching, and some gaming.

 

[bigboxes]

How much ram are you hooking up those Ryzen boxes?

 

[Raduque]

So buy it already. You've already done the due diligence and clearly illustrated that it is a great value. Nobody is going to be able to beat it because your parameters are very specific.

I already did buy it, actually. Still setting it up now.

But man, if you say you can beat it and hand me some mess in a generic ugly case and tell me to go buy some NFR Windows key that I can easily lose, I'm gonna tell you to git.

 

[UsandThem]

They are known to fail now and then. And I have had very good results with Western Digital hard drives. I use what I trust most. SSD's have a place, but if I used them, it would be for the OS only, with all my downloads and personal files on another totally seperate drive.

That's exactly what most people do, BTW. Large SSDs are pricey, so people who edit video/install a lot of games, typically use a spinner. I don't play many games, so I have a NVMe drive for my OS and an 850 EVO for photos/videos/music. I have owned many SSDs since 2011, and I've yet to have one die on me. However, I've had two Western Digital spinners suddenly die in that same period. But since you have been around various hardware over the years, you know it's just the luck of the draw sometimes.

Man, I couldn't even going to back to using a spinner as my OS drive. I find them painfully slow when helping people with their PCs, but to each their own based on their needs.

I'll just leave this little comparison video here for people's reading/watching pleasure:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/2017/04/04/SSD-vs-HDD---Responsiveness-Comparison-920/

 

[Torn Mind]

I already did buy it, actually. Still setting it up now.

But man, if you say you can beat it and hand me some mess in a generic ugly case and tell me to go buy some NFR Windows key that I can easily lose, I'm gonna tell you to git.

ibex tells you to get a garbage case. But the other posters prior to his participation trashed OEM cases. It seems that some folks cannot understand that building a computer can mean building one with garbage parts.

So buy it already. You've already done the due diligence and clearly illustrated that it is a great value. Nobody is going to be able to beat it because your parameters are very specific.

This thread is rife with hasty generalizations being posted as a logical "counterpoint" to the side-by-side comparison of a prebuilt system vs built system with as close to identical parts as possible. While some good points were made, like longer warranty on motherboards, there is so much sophistry in this thread it only can entail that some builders simply will always defend building at the expense of rational, objective thought when tasked with evaluating a specific computer.

 

[VirtualLarry]

How much ram are you hooking up those Ryzen boxes?

All of my "daily usage" rigs, have 16GB of RAM.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I already did buy it, actually. Still setting it up now.

Nice! Post some pics of the rig, once you get it running, with the RGB lighting going.

I was drooling over the Phanteks P400S case in white with Tempered Glass and RGB lighting when I saw it. I thought that setup would be perfect for a Ryzen rig, along with a 240mm rad in the front.

 

[whm1974]

ibex tells you to get a garbage case. But the other posters prior to his participation trashed OEM cases. It seems that some folks cannot understand that building a computer can mean building one with garbage parts.

This thread is rife with hasty generalizations being posted as a logical "counterpoint" to the side-by-side comparison of a prebuilt system vs built system with as close to identical parts as possible. While some good points were made, like longer warranty on motherboards, there is so much sophistry in this thread it only can entail that some builders simply will always defend building at the expense of rational, objective thought when tasked with evaluating a specific computer.

I've seen some Dells on sell awhile back with really good prices. Granted they were overstock Haswell based systems, but for under $300 for an i5 CPU w/ 8GB of RAM and 1TB HDD. You can't beat that.

 

[ibex333]

No. Do it the way I want it, or don't do it at all. Because on your build, I have to add $100 for Windows 10 (I refuse to use Windows 7, and I'm not buying an NFR key), another $80-100 for a nice tempered glass case, and I don't even know how much for a RGB lighting kit.

You completely ignored several of my reasons for choosing this PC.

Edit: Optical Drive? Ew.

Oy... There's just no pleasing you!

And what the hell is wrong with an optical drive? It helps when you cannot boot from USB for whatever reason and it essential for some older stuff.

 

[whm1974]

Oy... There's just no pleasing you!

And what the hell is wrong with an optical drive? It helps when you cannot boot from USB for whatever reason and it essential for some older stuff.

There is nothing wrong with ODD. They are only what $14 to $20? Granted I don't use mine very these days, but it's better to have it and not need it then to not have it and need it.

 

[Raduque]

Oy... There's just no pleasing you

No, it's just that you're ignoring the things I wanted from my build. The case you had is junk. Put a tempered case and real copy of Windows in there, and then look at the price. Go ahead, I'll wait.

There is nothing wrong with ODD. They are only what $14 to $20? Granted I don't use mine very these days, but it's better to have it and not need it then to not have it and need it.

I don't find a reason to have one. The Phanteks case I have doesn't even have room for one!

 

[Raduque]

Nice! Post some pics of the rig, once you get it running, with the RGB lighting going.

If I cropped the pic above the "Cyberpowerpc" logo inside the case, nobody would ever know....

The CPU under load hits around 60c, the GPU 75c. A very far cry from my laptop which is 93c for the CPU and 95c for the GPU.

Edit: Video of cycling the lights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1ruhdle93Q

 

[Thebobo]

Been watching for pre-builts on Ebay and noticed the prices seem to be going up. I should've jumped on a dell 7010 I5-3570 4g 500 HD Win 7 for $114 then it went up to $169 now its $179.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Been watching for pre-builts on Ebay and noticed the prices seem to be going up. I should've jumped on a dell 7010 I5-3570 4g 500 HD Win 7 for $114 then it went up to $169 now its $179.

Yeah, the word's getting out, on buying up those surplus Sandy / Ivy quad-core pre-builts, and dropping in an entry level gaming card and an SSD. Lots of YouTube videos from tech tubers, talking about that for ultra-budget (don't mind used) gaming builds.

Plus, they're not half bad, for a daily driver, either, with an SSD. Built fairly well (the business-oriented Optiplexes), and the cases are easy to work in.

But, I had one good experience, buying from sunnking, and one bad experience buying from vipoutlet (wrong CPU, expected quad-core i5-2400, contained dual-core i3-2120).

So, buying refurb / used pre-builts off of ebay can be a bit hit-or-miss. But I expect that most people, if they check seller feedback before purchase (I didn't), will be fine.

 

[hoorah]

Yeah, the word's getting out, on buying up those surplus Sandy / Ivy quad-core pre-builts, and dropping in an entry level gaming card and an SSD. Lots of YouTube videos from tech tubers, talking about that for ultra-budget (don't mind used) gaming builds.

I've been keeping my eye on those types of systems and sometimes I look at them and wonder how people can sell them so cheap and turn any kind of profit. Then I see a craigslist post where someone has the pallet of 200 systems shrink wrapped in the background and realize just how many of them there are out there. I think the economy of these things is that often corporations are throwing out perfectly good systems to use up their annual budget on upgrades. Basically, corporations are subsidizing the low end market to have these i3/i5 systems cheap, and so that sets the floor of performance. Try selling an Athlon II system when you can get an i5 for $130....

I didn't realize the word was getting out and prices were starting to go up though, although I can't say I'm surprised.

 

[Torn Mind]

I've been keeping my eye on those types of systems and sometimes I look at them and wonder how people can sell them so cheap and turn any kind of profit. Then I see a craigslist post where someone has the pallet of 200 systems shrink wrapped in the background and realize just how many of them there are out there. I think the economy of these things is that often corporations are throwing out perfectly good systems to use up their annual budget on upgrades. Basically, corporations are subsidizing the low end market to have these i3/i5 systems cheap, and so that sets the floor of performance. Try selling an Athlon II system when you can get an i5 for $130....

I didn't realize the word was getting out and prices were starting to go up though, although I can't say I'm surprised.

Small businesses also might lease due to keeping cash flow. They might need the "latest" or avoid percieved maintence costs. While one might question the need to stay "up-to-date" nowadays or maintenence costs rearing their ugly head after only three years, the bosses there are likely not computer savvy and needs an IT guy to do it since they have to dedicate time to other aspects of the business, and so they choose to lease.

I think it is just the ebb and flow of the EBay market. When the leases expire and other supply side things can change the day-to-day price of the units. And that there has been no supply stream screw up like the cap plague to mar the reputation of Dell, etc for those era computers.

Having integrated 1080p graphics+Sandy Bridge performance is far better than the Core 2 and earlier slowpokes some people are coming from and also whatever new garbage Atoms and the like comes out at the sub-$300 price point.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Having integrated 1080p graphics+Sandy Bridge performance is far better than the Core 2 and earlier slowpokes some people are coming from and also whatever new garbage Atoms and the like comes out at the sub-$300 price point.

By far!

Those quads may not be state-of-the-art, but they're what, 30% slower than a locked Skylake / Kaby Lake 4C/4T with DDR4? Maybe it depends on the workload. But they're like fully one-third the price of the refurbished Skylake systems, which approach retail new price.

Sure, there's the longevity question, some people prefer new. (I personally do.) But given the CPU power of those 4-6 year old quads, and the significant savings, well, it's pretty tempting.

Edit: And I would plan on installing a dGPU, those older Core-series CPUs were fine in the CPU dept., but the iGPU was pretty lacking, compared to something modern.

 

[Torn Mind]

By far!

Those quads may not be state-of-the-art, but they're what, 30% slower than a locked Skylake / Kaby Lake 4C/4T with DDR4? Maybe it depends on the workload. But they're like fully one-third the price of the refurbished Skylake systems, which approach retail new price.

Sure, there's the longevity question, some people prefer new. (I personally do.) But given the CPU power of those 4-6 year old quads, and the significant savings, well, it's pretty tempting.

Edit: And I would plan on installing a dGPU, those older Core-series CPUs were fine in the CPU dept., but the iGPU was pretty lacking, compared to something modern.

dGPU shouldn't be necessary with the Ivy Bridge HD 4000. The basic Ivy graphics and all of the Sandy iGPUs might in the cases you have mentioned in your previous post.

But playing back football stream torrents never was a problem for me.

 

[hoorah]

Small businesses also might lease due to keeping cash flow.

Understood, lots of reasons to upgrade, though I think that as increases in performance have dropped below doubling-every-18 months the justification for frequent upgrades becomes less obvious, I still see why businesses do it.

And that there has been no supply stream screw up like the cap plague to mar the reputation of Dell, etc for those era computers.

I think this is a big part of it. There is a lot of supply out there.

dGPU shouldn't be necessary with the Ivy Bridge HD 4000. The basic Ivy graphics and all of the Sandy iGPUs might in the cases you have mentioned in your previous post.

But playing back football stream torrents never was a problem for me.

I went from needing a dedicated GPU that could handle h.264 back in 2005-2007 to dual core cpus with enough grunt to get the job done on their own, then to AMD APUs and intels HD2000/3000/4000 that had onboard support for H.264. The last 3-4 years have been great in that just about anything I shake a stick at has h.264 native support and cpu usage sits near idle.

The shadow looming in the background is 10-bit h.265, which is going to start the cycle over again at needing a dedicated GPU for my older HTPC rigs.

 

[Thebobo]

Have a chance to pick a Dell OptiPlex 9010 PC- i7 - 3.40GHz 8GB - 250GB Win 7 Pro locally. Just use for browsing music and maybe some lite video editing mostly just general computer use, I have couple smare 1TB drives for storage. Thinkt his is a good deal at $150?

 

[bruceb]

Sounds reasonable. Depends on if you plan to expand on it and if it has enough space to do so. Like better video or extra CD/DVD drives. But for a basic rig, it should do fine.