Pride Goeth Before The Fall

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,748
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William Pfaff on Zbigniew Brzezinski's new book The Choice: Global Domination Or Global Leadership.

"This belief that the United States has a unique historical mission?whether or not divinely commissioned?is not open to logical refutation. But an American policy that rests on a self-indulgent fiction must be expected to come to a bad end.

Every country has a "story" it tells itself about its place in the contemporary world. We are familiar enough with the American story, beginning with the City on a Hill and progressing through Manifest Destiny toward Woodrow Wilson's conviction we are "to show the way to the nations of the world how they shall walk in the paths of liberty.... It was of this that we dreamed at our birth." The current version of the story says that this exalted destiny is fatefully challenged by rogue nations with nuclear weapons, failed states, and the menace of Islamic extremists. Something close to Huntington's war of civilizations has begun. National mobilization has already taken place. Years of struggle lie ahead.

The "isolation" of the United States today is caused by the fact that its claims about the threat of terrorism seem to others grossly exaggerated, and its reaction, as Brzezinski himself argues, dangerously disproportionate. Most advanced societies have already had, or have, their wars with "terrorism": the British with the IRA, the Spanish with the Basque separatist ETA, the Germans, Italians, and Japanese with their Red Brigades, the French with Palestinian and Algerian terrorists, Greeks, Latin Americans, and Asians with their own varieties of extremists.

America's principal allies no longer believe its national "story." They have tried to believe in it, and have been courteous about it even while skepticism grew. They are alarmed about what has happened to the United States under the Bush administration, and see no good coming from it. They are struck by how impervious Americans seem to be to the notion that our September 11 was not the defining event of the age, after which "nothing could be the same." They are inclined to think that the international condition, like the human condition, is in fact very much the same as it has always been. It is the United States that has changed. They are disturbed that American leaders seem unable to understand this.

When American officials and policy experts come to Europe saying that "everything has changed," warning that allied governments must "do something" about the anti-Americanism displayed last year in connection with the Iraq invasion, the Western European reaction is often to marvel at the Americans' inability to appreciate that the source of the problem lies in how the United States has conducted itself since September 2001. They find this changed United States rather menacing. An Irish international banker recently observed to me that when Europeans suggest to visiting Americans that things have changed in Europe too, as a direct result of America's policies, "it's as if the Americans can't hear." A French writer has put it this way: it has been like discovering that a respected, even beloved, uncle has slipped into schizophrenia. When you visit him, his words no longer connect with the reality around him. It seems futile to talk about it with him. The family, embarrassed, is even reluctant to talk about it among themselves."
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
But everything DID change, with those 3000 people. That you could even suggest that their deaths were for naught only further accentuates your anti-American idiocy. :|
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: Orsorum
But everything DID change, with those 3000 people. That you could even suggest that their deaths were for naught only further accentuates your anti-American idiocy. :|

Who you talking to?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,145
6,619
126
Rush taught pigs to be proud of themselves. American slop is gourmet. It just so happens that one of the pigs actually made it all the way to the White House. Signs of decine, I'd say. Oops, I gotta go watch reality TV. Later.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,145
6,619
126
Originally posted by: Orsorum
But everything DID change, with those 3000 people. That you could even suggest that their deaths were for naught only further accentuates your anti-American idiocy. :|

What like 50,000 die in automobile accidents? We need a war on wheels.

And it isn't anti-American because it's it points out a flaw in our character we need to fix. That is what patriotism is. What is anti-American is our weaknesses because they threaten us internally, like low IQ isn't real good playing Darwin.
 

RadBrad

Member
Feb 10, 2004
115
0
0
Brzezinski's book is a disappointing work in that its assumptions about the nature of contemporary international relations, and about the demands and ultimate objectives of American foreign policy, do not fundamentally challenge those of the Bush administration and those who support its general approach. A recent and comprehensive survey of American opinion, conducted by Notre Europe, a studies and research group headed by Jacques Delors and supported in part by the European Commission, concludes that the 2001 attacks were a "clarifying moment" in American opinion, producing a perceptible "long-term convergence of views amongst the American foreign policy elite...based on the strategies of preemption and democratic enlargement...on both sides of the political divide."[6]

Brzezinski observes that the security the United States formerly found in geographical isolation and in alliance with Western Europe now is gone. New circumstances and technologies are responsible for new forms of insecurity. He contends that the United States is "fated to be the catalyst either for a global community or for global chaos, [hence] Americans have the unique historical responsibility to determine which of the two will come to




I took what I wanted of it.

Btw the global chaos he refers to would be the new socialist appeasment order the democratic party wishes to push forward.


:Q
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: RadBrad

Btw the global chaos he refers to would be the new socialist appeasment order the democratic party wishes to push forward.
:Q

What IS it with you and conspiracy theories?
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: RadBrad
Originally posted by: Orsorum
conspiracy theories?


I'm guessing that you are drinking heavily right now? That or Unable to
comprehend what you read.

I am quite capable of comprehension; I would ask you to further expound on the last sentence of your original post.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,145
6,619
126
Originally posted by: RadBrad
Brzezinski's book is a disappointing work in that its assumptions about the nature of contemporary international relations, and about the demands and ultimate objectives of American foreign policy, do not fundamentally challenge those of the Bush administration and those who support its general approach. A recent and comprehensive survey of American opinion, conducted by Notre Europe, a studies and research group headed by Jacques Delors and supported in part by the European Commission, concludes that the 2001 attacks were a "clarifying moment" in American opinion, producing a perceptible "long-term convergence of views amongst the American foreign policy elite...based on the strategies of preemption and democratic enlargement...on both sides of the political divide."[6]

Brzezinski observes that the security the United States formerly found in geographical isolation and in alliance with Western Europe now is gone. New circumstances and technologies are responsible for new forms of insecurity. He contends that the United States is "fated to be the catalyst either for a global community or for global chaos, [hence] Americans have the unique historical responsibility to determine which of the two will come to




I took what I wanted of it.

Btw the global chaos he refers to would be the new socialist appeasment order the democratic party wishes to push forward.


:Q
Actually what RadBrad is talking about is the rise in America of the same psychological factors that were present when Hitler began his quest for power, a profound inferiority complex masked by titanic arrogance.

 

RadBrad

Member
Feb 10, 2004
115
0
0
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: RadBrad
Originally posted by: Orsorum
conspiracy theories?


I'm guessing that you are drinking heavily right now? That or Unable to
comprehend what you read.

I am quite capable of comprehension; I would ask you to further expound on the last sentence of your original post.

The sentence is very self explanitory. " Btw the global chaos he refers to would be the new socialist (being government that takes care of us cradle to coffin) appeasment (being a government that beleives our rights are less important than other countries citizens) order(like the eu) the democratic party(crazy people) wishes to push(agenda) forward ."

 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: RadBrad
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: RadBrad
Originally posted by: Orsorum
conspiracy theories?


I'm guessing that you are drinking heavily right now? That or Unable to
comprehend what you read.

I am quite capable of comprehension; I would ask you to further expound on the last sentence of your original post.

The sentence is very self explanitory. " Btw the global chaos he refers to would be the new socialist (being government that takes care of us cradle to coffin) appeasment (being a government that beleives our rights are less important than other countries citizens) order(like the eu) the democratic party(crazy people) wishes to push(agenda) forward ."

So you would disagree with President Bush's invasion of Iraq?
 

RadBrad

Member
Feb 10, 2004
115
0
0
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: RadBrad
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: RadBrad
Originally posted by: Orsorum
conspiracy theories?


I'm guessing that you are drinking heavily right now? That or Unable to
comprehend what you read.

I am quite capable of comprehension; I would ask you to further expound on the last sentence of your original post.

The sentence is very self explanitory. " Btw the global chaos he refers to would be the new socialist (being government that takes care of us cradle to coffin) appeasment (being a government that beleives our rights are less important than other countries citizens) order(like the eu) the democratic party(crazy people) wishes to push(agenda) forward ."

So you would disagree with President Bush's invasion of Iraq?

Never

 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: RadBrad

The sentence is very self explanitory. " Btw the global chaos he refers to would be the new socialist (being government that takes care of us cradle to coffin) appeasment (being a government that beleives our rights are less important than other countries citizens) order(like the eu) the democratic party(crazy people) wishes to push(agenda) forward ."

So you would disagree with President Bush's invasion of Iraq?[/quote]

Never[/quote]

And you would disagree with the marriage amendment he purportedly supports? Or the amnesty for which he is pushing?
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Orsorum
But everything DID change, with those 3000 people. That you could even suggest that their deaths were for naught only further accentuates your anti-American idiocy. :|

What like 50,000 die in automobile accidents? We need a war on wheels.
Is that like a b!tch on wheels?

But anyway, this brings me (at least) around to the question we should all be asking ourselves: By what measure will we determine whether Bush's policies have succeeded or failed? The amount of resulting terrorism after vs before? Even Rummy himself asked, how do we know if we're winning?
 

RadBrad

Member
Feb 10, 2004
115
0
0
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: RadBrad

The sentence is very self explanitory. " Btw the global chaos he refers to would be the new socialist (being government that takes care of us cradle to coffin) appeasment (being a government that beleives our rights are less important than other countries citizens) order(like the eu) the democratic party(crazy people) wishes to push(agenda) forward ."

So you would disagree with President Bush's invasion of Iraq?

Never[/quote]

And you would disagree with the marriage amendment he purportedly supports? Or the amnesty for which he is pushing?[/quote]



I will be loyal to my party regardless of what i agree or disagree with.

 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: RadBrad

I will be loyal to my party regardless of what i agree or disagree with.

... so from this point forward I can disregard your opinion as useless and as lacking any serious thought?
 

RadBrad

Member
Feb 10, 2004
115
0
0
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: RadBrad

I will be loyal to my party regardless of what i agree or disagree with.

... so from this point forward I can disregard your opinion as useless and as lacking any serious thought?


Oh contrare, My opinion is shaped by and also shapes my party.

 

RadBrad

Member
Feb 10, 2004
115
0
0
Originally posted by: Perknose
<a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/SuperD/george.jpg" target=blank>I will be loyal to my party regardless of what i agree or disagree with.</A>




I've noticed It really bothers you when someone has a backbone that you obviously
lack.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,748
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RadBrad

Member
Feb 10, 2004
115
0
0
Originally posted by: Perknose
Oh contrare, My opinion is shaped by and also shapes my party.
<a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame31.html" target=blank>Au contraire.</A> It's, you know, <STRONG>FRENCH!! :Q:disgust:
</STRONG>

Grammarian usually has little to contribute to a discussion and possesses few effective weapons. To compensate, he will point out minor errors in spelling and grammar. Because of Grammarian's obvious weakness most Warriors ignore him.



Thanks for pointing out my spelling errors,

:disgust:
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,748
10,305
146
Originally posted by: RadBrad
Originally posted by: Perknose
Oh contrare, My opinion is shaped by and also shapes my party.
Au contraire. It's, you know, FRENCH!! :Q:disgust:
Grammarian usually has little to contribute to a discussion and possesses few effective weapons. To compensate, he will point out minor errors in spelling and grammar. Because of Grammarian's obvious weakness most Warriors ignore him. Thanks for pointing out my spelling errors, :disgust:

It was MORE than a spelling error, pinhead, you obviously had no fvcking idea where the phrase came from.

And thanks for quoting from the link I made, you regrettably lack the higher cognitive powers to aprehend a little self-deprecating irony. What a semi-literate twerp! :|
 

RadBrad

Member
Feb 10, 2004
115
0
0
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: RadBrad
Originally posted by: Perknose
Oh contrare, My opinion is shaped by and also shapes my party.
<a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame31.html" target=blank>Au contraire.</A> It's, you know, <STRONG>FRENCH!! :Q:disgust: </STRONG>
Grammarian usually has little to contribute to a discussion and possesses few effective weapons. To compensate, he will point out minor errors in spelling and grammar. Because of Grammarian's obvious weakness most Warriors ignore him. Thanks for pointing out my spelling errors, :disgust:

It was MORE than a spelling error, pinhead, you obviously had no fvcking idea where the phrase came from.

And thanks for quoting from the link I made, you regrettably lack the higher cognitive powers to aprehend a little self-deprecating irony. What a semi-literate twerp! :|



Grammarian usually has little to contribute to a discussion and possesses few effective weapons. To compensate, he will point out minor errors in spelling and grammar. Because of Grammarian's obvious weakness most Warriors ignore him. Thanks for pointing out my GRAMMER errors,

 
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