Prom in Mississippi

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Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Public schools cannot have rules that discriminate on gender or sexual orientation (among other things).

Thats why the public school system is a sham. Its been watered down and liberalized so much that even a high school diploma is a joke.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Thats why the public school system is a sham. Its been watered down and liberalized so much that even a high school diploma is a joke.

You've just conflated two entirely separate topics. Why? I have no idea, but my only guess would be some sort of mental disorder.

School academic performance has nothing to do with discriminatory gender/sexual orientation rules.

What country do you live in? In what country were you born?
 
Last edited:

McWatt

Senior member
Feb 25, 2010
405
0
71
Of course men should be allowed to wear a prom dress to prom if that's their thing. Not many will. Probably none will. If one does, and it makes him happier, it's not hurting anyone.

A woman in a tuxedo isn't so unheard of even among totally straight girly girls. Would that even turn any heads at prom?
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
No, I don't really think you are. That has not been demonstrated by your posts in this thread.

My sister is a lesbian dude, I don't have a problem with it at all. You live life once, if being with someone of the same sex makes you happy go for it. It doesn't effect me, it is none of my business.


That said I think you are misunderstanding the point I'm making.

I have no problem with anyone being gay. I have no problem with them being lesbians and bringing a same sex date to prom.

That said, there is dress codes at proms.

The dress code is not "you must wear a tuxedo or a dress."
The dress code is "if you are a guy you must wear a tux if you are a girl you must wear a dress."



For a cop it isn't you must wear a uniform, its you must wear a cop uniform.

For a football player it isn't you must wear a uniform, you must wear your team's uniform.

If you don't wear your team's uniform you don't play ball.


If she doesn't put on a dress, she don't play ball.


Now then if she is in the process of becoming a man and taking the hormones and everything else, then that is a different story and I would support HER that is the process of being a HIM.

But if she is simply a chick that wants to dress like a dude then sorry you don't get to.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
That said, there is dress codes at proms.

The dress code is not "you must wear a tuxedo or a dress."
The dress code is "if you are a guy you must wear a tux if you are a girl you must wear a dress."

That dress code is discriminatory and should be changed IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL.

For a cop it isn't you must wear a uniform, its you must wear a cop uniform.

There's no gender/sexual orientation discrimination taking place there, so yes, that rule is fine.

For a football player it isn't you must wear a uniform, you must wear your team's uniform.

If you don't wear your team's uniform you don't play ball.

Again, there's no gender/sexual orientation discrimination taking place, so that rule is fine.

But if she is simply a chick that wants to dress like a dude then sorry you don't get to.

But why? Why should a public school be able to discriminate like that? You never gave me a good reason.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
More political correctness taken to absurdity levels. Talk about stupid: the idiots are asking the court to force the school to have a prom? That makes no sense. The school is not obligated to have any prom, and they canceled. They don't need to provide any justification for not having a prom. Stupid PC people.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
More political correctness taken to absurdity levels. Talk about stupid: the idiots are asking the court to force the school to have a prom? That makes no sense. The school is not obligated to have any prom, and they canceled. They don't need to provide any justification for not having a prom. Stupid PC people.

Exactly. It probably saves the taxpayers some money too. Spending money on luxuries like prom in this economy is pretty frivolous.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Exactly. It probably saves the taxpayers some money too. Spending money on luxuries like prom in this economy is pretty frivolous.
Just imagine how much money schools save by not having things like football games.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Just imagine how much money schools save by not having things like football games.

Tons. I still don't know why they finance that shit. If people want to play football, they are welcome to on their own dime, not the taxpayer dime.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Just imagine how much money schools save by not having things like football games.

It depends where you are. In a lot of areas (TX, OH, PA and in much of the southeast), the schools make a lot of money on football merchandise, tickets, concessions and they get donations from alumni based on the football program. If the football program is a huge money loser, I'd be in favor of getting rid of it.
 

Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
It depends where you are. In a lot of areas (TX, OH, PA and in much of the southeast), the schools make a lot of money on football merchandise, tickets, concessions and they get donations from alumni based on the football program. If the football program is a huge money loser, I'd be in favor of getting rid of it.

I know at my high school, football supported itself and every other sport.
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
Nothing more than gay agenda run amok. Why couldn't they have just gone and not make some bold statement. STFU and live life. I could care less if two girls showed up. Now if they had the ACLU riding on their trains shut them the F down.
 

n yusef

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2005
2,158
1
0
Nothing more than gay agenda run amok. Why couldn't they have just gone and not make some bold statement. STFU and live life. I could care less if two girls showed up. Now if they had the ACLU riding on their trains shut them the F down.

I hope you aren't serious.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is having some girl show up with her "date", let people make their own choices as to who they want to date and bring to the prom. With regard to the dress code though, the school is perfectly within it's right to set a certain dress code for men and for women. If the dress code for men is tuxes, then men should wear tuxes. Want to wear your football uniform instead? Tough shit, that's the dress code. The girls should have been allowed to attend, provided they follow the rules like anyone else.

I understand the action from the ACLU with regard to not letting them attend, that seems like discrimination to me. However, trying to have a court force a school to have a prom is idiotic and is the kind of thing that gives the ACLU a bad rep. They're a lot like PETA; people generally agree with what they stand for, but they are too zealous about their ideals and end up doing stupid things that people just shake their head at.

Think about it. A lot of the stuff that goes along with the prom is done by volunteers. Is the court going to force volunteers to help? Is the court going to send court officers to chaperone? The ALCU argument that the prom is somehow a first amendment right is patently absurd.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
With regard to the dress code though, the school is perfectly within it's right to set a certain dress code for men and for women. If the dress code for men is tuxes, then men should wear tuxes. Want to wear your football uniform instead? Tough shit, that's the dress code. The girls should have been allowed to attend, provided they follow the rules like anyone else.

The girl wasn't trying to go to prom in a football uniform. She just wanted to wear a tux, and there's nothing wrong with that.. and the school doesn't have a right to say only men can wear a tux and only women can wear a dress. They can say that formal attire is required, but not pigeon-hole who can wear what kind of formalwear. That's gender discrimination.
 

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
76
Tons. I still don't know why they finance that shit. If people want to play football, they are welcome to on their own dime, not the taxpayer dime.

Ok this is just HILARIOUS.

Football for a huge huge huge huge huge majority of schools MORE than pays for itself. Hell football pays for OTHER sports most of the time.

For instance, I ran track and cross country in high school. Without the football program, our sports wouldn't have existed because the school system wouldn't have been able to pay. But the money made from football ensured other sports could continue to exist.

You have no fvcking clue what you are talking about in general.
 

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
76
The girl wasn't trying to go to prom in a football uniform. She just wanted to wear a tux, and there's nothing wrong with that.. and the school doesn't have a right to say only men can wear a tux and only women can wear a dress. They can say that formal attire is required, but not pigeon-hole who can wear what kind of formalwear. That's gender discrimination.

Sorry but the school can set the dress code(doesn't mean it isn't lame). They can say a skirt is too short or that skirts aren't allowed at all.

If the school says that a tux is not allowed for girls then that shouldn't be an issue. It is a dress code thing. Gender discrimination happens already. There is a boys bathroom and a girls bathroom.

However, this school had ZERO business telling her that she couldn't bring her girlfriend as her date. The school is also shortsighted and stupid for canceling it. If it remains cancelled, I imagine that it will stay that way because a gay couple will try to attend every year.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
If the school says that a tux is not allowed for girls then that shouldn't be an issue. It is a dress code thing.

I disagree. The school has no right to set that kind of rule, and I will fight any such restriction in every way I can.

Gender discrimination happens already. There is a boys bathroom and a girls bathroom.

I don't think there should be boys and girls bathrooms, but I can let this one slide because there's more of a threat of misbehavior than there would be if a girl wore a tux to the prom.
 

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
76
I disagree. The school has no right to set that kind of rule, and I will fight any such restriction in every way I can.



I don't think there should be boys and girls bathrooms, but I can let this one slide because there's more of a threat of misbehavior than there would be if a girl wore a tux to the prom.

Sorry but until the right of a school to set dress code is removed, they have every right to set whatever they want.

As it stands right now, they have the right to set dress code. There isn't any limitation put on that.

You can disagree with that right but it is their right. I don't believe they should be able to enforce any dress code but the Supreme Court has ruled otherwise.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
Sorry but until the right of a school to set dress code is removed, they have every right to set whatever they want.

As it stands right now, they have the right to set dress code. There isn't any limitation put on that.

You can disagree with that right but it is their right. I don't believe they should be able to enforce any dress code but the Supreme Court has ruled otherwise.

Actually, public schools do not have free reign to set dress codes. The Supreme Court hasn't taken up the issue definitively, especially in a way that would address this specific situation.

From: http://www.ecs.org/html/IssueSection.asp?issueid=145&s=Overview

The U.S. Supreme Court has held that individuals can and do wear clothing to express ideas and opinions. The authority of public schools to regulate the types of clothing worn by its students therefore touches upon First Amendment freedom of speech rights. In its landmark 1969 decision, Tinker v. Des Moines Independent School District (393 U.S. 503, 21 L. Ed. 2d 731, 89 S. Ct. 733, 1969), the court struck down a school district's ban on the wearing of black armbands to protest the Vietnam War. Central to the court’s decision was the fact that the policy was “viewpoint-specific” and did not ban other clothing that expressed controversial views, including Iron Crosses, often seen as symbols of Hitler and the Nazis. This aspect of the decision is consistent with a number of later Supreme Court decisions signaling that viewpoint-specific dress restrictions violate the First Amendment.

In general, the Tinker case established the principle that, while maintenance of order and promotion of acceptable standards of classroom conduct are synonymous with ensuring an adequate education system, school officials do not have free reign to abridge students' constitutional rights. In the aftermath of Tinker, federal courts have been asked to address numerous cases involving school uniform and dress code policies. In some cases, these cases have narrowed the application of First Amendment protections to student dress.

The most recent case was decided in March 2001 when the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit issued a ruling regarding a Kentucky high school’s dress code (Castorina v. Madison County School Board, 246 F.3d 536, U.S. Ct. App. 6th Circuit). The court indicated that several criteria were crucial in determining whether school policy interferes with student rights under the Constitution. Those criteria include:

1. If the school policy appears to be viewpoint specific (as in the Tinker case), the courts will apply a higher level of scrutiny to a school’s proposed regulation.

2. If the disputed clothing is obscene, vulgar or worn in a manner that disrupts school activity or causes unrest during the school day, the courts will allow school districts more discretion in prohibiting the clothing.

3. If the student speech/dress could be considered to be “school-sponsored,” the courts will allow school districts more discretion in prohibiting the clothing. For instance, school officials could regulate school-sponsored activities such as publications, theatrical productions and other conduct related to the school's curriculum if their actions are reasonably related to legitimate pedagogical concerns.

The Supreme Court has not yet addressed the issue of school uniforms per se. As a result, this issue is a matter of first impression for all circuit courts of appeals and most federal and state courts. In the most recent case, decided in January 2001, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit upheld the constitutionality of a mandatory public school uniform policy in a Louisiana school district (Canady v. Bossier Parish School Board, 240 F.3d 437, U.S. Ct. App. 6th Circuit). The court held that, “the school board's uniform policy will pass constitutional scrutiny if it furthers an important or substantial government interest; if the interest is unrelated to the suppression of student expression; and if the incidental restrictions on First Amendment activities are no more than is necessary to facilitate that interest.”

So, is a girl wearing a tux really that much of a disturbance that they're right in saying only men can wear them? No, it's not.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I have no problem with the school setting rules as to appropriate attire for each sex, but at my prom in a very conservative, rural Tennessee county more than three decades ago one of the senior girls was escorted by a junior girl who wore a tux. She looked damned good in it too and it wasn't an issue for anyone. True, they weren't lesbians, but the school really had no way of knowing that.

I have a bigger problem with the school canceling the prom for everyone because they have a problem with one couple. If you have a problem and know that legally and ethically you can't do what you would like to do, man up and accept it.
 
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