Propus 620: My upgrade plan

[sirelk]

I got bitten by the upgrade bug, and the fever is peaking since reading Anand's article on the Athlon II X4 620 Propus 2.6GHz.

I'm looking at upgrading to the following:

AMD Athlon II X4 620 2.6GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?item=N82E16819103706

GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?item=N82E16813128394

ASUS Radeon HD 4870 EAH4870 DK/HTDI/1GD5 Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?item=N82E16814121291R

APEX TX-381-C Black Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?item=N82E16811154094

OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?item=N82E16820227289

CZ StealthXStream OCZ700SXS 700W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?item=N82E16817341019

I'll will continue to use the hd's from my last rig:
Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM SATA 1.5Gb (my main drive)
Western Digital Caviar RE WD1600YS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb (for storage)

The whole thing is running around $495 (that includes shipping) and I'll be getting back $45 in rebates. That will make the final price about $450.

Any comments on the components I have chosen would be appreciated, whether they be yay or nay is no matter. I'm sorta behind with all the very latest pc tech, and I was wanting some feedback from those who have better wisdom in this area. If you have a suggestion on switching out a component, please also share your ideas. Thanks!

I was going to try to use my APEVIA ATX-CW500WP4 500W ATX Power Supply to power this, but after reading through these forums and elsewhere, that would probably be inadequate for the power needs (and disaster would follow).

For anyone interested in what I'm upgrading from:

• -AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2.0GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core
  -MSI K9NBPM2-FID AM2 NVIDIA Quadro NVS 210S Micro ATX
  -2 sticks of WINTEC AMPO 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300)
  -MSI NX7600GS-T2D256E GeForce 7600GS 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16
  -APEVIA ATX-CW500WP4 500W ATX Power Supply
  -An old mid tower case from 2001 that is as ugly as they come
  -Keeping the hd's mentioned above

 

[neodoc]

thats good config you have got.it all depends on your usage scenario.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: sirelk
I'll will continue to use the hd's from my last rig:
Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM SATA 1.5Gb (my main drive)
Western Digital Caviar RE WD1600YS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb (for storage)

I guess I'm not the only guy using drives from 8 years ago. Do a Sandra read test on these drives (not the file system test) and post how fast they are. You might see huge performance gains by getting a new drive; the cheap 1.5TB drive I bought a few weeks ago can do 150mb/s which is probably more than a RE3 from 8 years ago can do.

The PSU might be a bit excessive. I'm using a 540W PSU and it's more than enough to power an overclocked E6600, 8800GTX, and 5 hard drives. Maximum efficiency of electrical equipment is generally around 80% of rated continuous load. If you're only using 200W of a 700W PSU, you'll have horrendously bad efficiency. You'll draw 400W from the wall when you're only using 200W of output.

edit: psu calculator
Based on Phenom II X4 810, 100% TDP, not overclocked, 90% load, Radeon 4870, 40% capacitor aging and a few assumptions about devices = 460W PSU recommended (round up from this)

 

[s0matic]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: sirelk
I'll will continue to use the hd's from my last rig:
Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM SATA 1.5Gb (my main drive)
Western Digital Caviar RE WD1600YS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb (for storage)

I guess I'm not the only guy using drives from 8 years ago. Do a Sandra read test on these drives (not the file system test) and post how fast they are. You might see huge performance gains by getting a new drive; the cheap 1.5TB drive I bought a few weeks ago can do 150mb/s which is probably more than a RE3 from 8 years ago can do.

The PSU might be a bit excessive. I'm using a 540W PSU and it's more than enough to power an overclocked E6600, 8800GTX, and 5 hard drives. Maximum efficiency of electrical equipment is generally around 80% of rated continuous load. If you're only using 200W of a 700W PSU, you'll have horrendously bad efficiency. You'll draw 400W from the wall when you're only using 200W of output.

Agree with this. You'll probably be fine with a reputable 400w-500w psu. I'm currently running my X4 620 on a 400w StealthXStream with a 4850, one optical drive and two SATA HDD's, and I have no problems. A system I built for a friend using a 400w Corsair with a 720 BE and 4870 inside was okay as well, despite the psu only having 1 PCI-E power connector.

My setup is similar, I have a old WD740GD that I'm using as my boot drive and I purchased a 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 for storage. The F3 beats my old raptor in read speeds, but my raptor still has faster access times.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: s0maticA system I built for a friend using a 400w Corsair with a 720 BE and 4870 inside was okay as well, despite the psu only having 1 PCI-E power connector.

I've always wondered about this. Are you supposed to use one of those molex-->PCIe converters for the second slot or do you just leave the second power slot open? I was scared to see if my 8800GTX works in one of my older computers because the PSU had only 1 PCIe connector and I didn't know if I could just leave the second one open or if the PSU only had 1 connector for a reason.

 

[s0matic]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
I've always wondered about this. Are you supposed to use one of those molex-->PCIe converters for the second slot or do you just leave the second power slot open? I was scared to see if my 8800GTX works in one of my older computers because the PSU had only 1 PCIe connector and I didn't know if I could just leave the second one open or if the PSU only had 1 connector for a reason.

Yup, I'm pretty sure you need to have both PCI-e connectors filled. For my friend's build, I just used the 4-pin molex -> PCI-e converter the video card came with, and it works fine. I can't really comment on whether 1x molex -> PCI-e vs. 2x molex -> PCI-e is better, though. FWIW I think the video card just came with a 1x molex -> PCI-e

 

[Schmide]

I don't know if you looked for combos, but for example you can save $20

OCZ Ram + GIG Motherboard

 

[sirelk]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
I guess I'm not the only guy using drives from 8 years ago. Do a Sandra read test on these drives (not the file system test) and post how fast they are. You might see huge performance gains by getting a new drive; the cheap 1.5TB drive I bought a few weeks ago can do 150mb/s which is probably more than a RE3 from 8 years ago can do.

I just got this "oldie-but-goodie" raptor in the spring for $50. I was going to try out something faster with a lot more capacity (Velociraptor 150g or 300g), but I delayed in the hope that SSD tech will become a lot cheaper as time goes. I have no issues with the drive I "store" things on, the raptor does a good job for me.

My original goal was to keep my upgrade cost under $400.00 and now I'm already over that.

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
The PSU might be a bit excessive. I'm using a 540W PSU and it's more than enough to power an overclocked E6600, 8800GTX, and 5 hard drives. Maximum efficiency of electrical equipment is generally around 80% of rated continuous load. If you're only using 200W of a 700W PSU, you'll have horrendously bad efficiency. You'll draw 400W from the wall when you're only using 200W of output.

I based the psu on deals I was able to get. They have a 600W PSU that is "modular" OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ600MXSP 600W

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
edit: psu calculator
Based on Phenom II X4 810, 100% TDP, not overclocked, 90% load, Radeon 4870, 40% capacitor aging and a few assumptions about devices = 460W PSU recommended (round up from this)

Cool calculator! Thanks for the link.

I will also be powering a dvd-dl burner and a few usb devices. I do plan on overclocking the cpu and possibly the graphics card at some point.

Originally posted by: s0matic My setup is similar, I have a old WD740GD that I'm using as my boot drive and I purchased a 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 for storage. The F3 beats my old raptor in read speeds, but my raptor still has faster access times.

Classic Raptor respect! *Fist Bump*

Originally posted by: Schmide I don't know if you looked for combos, but for example you can save $20

OCZ Ram + GIG Motherboard

Yeah I looked for all possible combos, coupon codes, etc for this collection of components. I went with the combos that gave me the lowest final price.

Also... I plan to use this new rig for a decent amount of gaming, but also a lot of photoshop, cad work, lots of audio/video editing stuff, and ... did I mention gaming? Just once I'd like to see what all the hub-bub on Crysis is about (I'll pick up a copy on eBay or something). Dunno if this system would do it much justice. The hd would probably end up being a hindrance for a game like that.

 

[Eeqmcsq]

Hello fellow cheapskate. The only concern I would have is air flow in the microATX case. But looking at the newegg reviews, I see some praise and no complaints about air flow, especially after adding extra case fans. So you may want to add a couple of case fans to your order if you can't salvage any from your old case.

 

[o1die]

Your choices are fine. And newegg has a rosewill atx case for just $19.99 today only with free shipping if you want something cheap and new. It even comes with rear 120mm fan.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

The PSU might be a bit excessive. I'm using a 540W PSU and it's more than enough to power an overclocked E6600, 8800GTX, and 5 hard drives. Maximum efficiency of electrical equipment is generally around 80% of rated continuous load. If you're only using 200W of a 700W PSU, you'll have horrendously bad efficiency. You'll draw 400W from the wall when you're only using 200W of output.

WTF totally false. I have no idea where you got this?

High End PSU efficiency Anand

Most PSUs regardless of rating usually reach at least 75% by 75w and top out in the mid 80s in terms of efficiency. A lower end PSU will just reach 75% earlier. All PSUs are crap less than 50w, but who cares, you're barely using any energy there anyways. Maybe a total of 10w inefficiency. Even comparing the worst to the best you're talking around 10% difference. Maybe 10-40w difference over the total power usage graph.

Edit:

Originally posted by: ShawnD140% capacitor aging

If a capacitor isn't faulty it should condition power way way longer than any fan within the unit.

 

[sirelk]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

*snip*

WTF totally false. I have no idea where you got this?

High End PSU efficiency Anand
*snip*

Edit:

Originally posted by: ShawnD140% capacitor aging

If a capacitor isn't faulty it should condition power way way longer than any fan within the unit.

So... you think going with a 600W or 700W psu for my configuration will destroy the ozone and completely melt the polar caps?

Keep in mind I did have a 500W psu, albeit it is Apevia and it probably wouldn't work to well with components that added up to 400W or higher.

I also would like something that would work for any future upgrades. The Apevia was fine when I first installed it in 2006 with my Athlon XP rig that had a geforce2 card. And then used it for my current Athlon 64 X2 3800+ rig. I'd hope to get at least 2-3 years out of this psu.

 

[drizek]

Use integrated graphics for a couple of weeks to see if the 4870 drops in price.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: sirelk

So... you think going with a 600W or 700W psu for my configuration will destroy the ozone and completely melt the polar caps?

No. Get a high end PSU if you can afford one. There is no efficiency issues with higher rated PSUs. ShawnD1 was woefully mistaken.

Originally posted by: sirelk

Keep in mind I did have a 500W psu, albeit it is Apevia and it probably wouldn't work to well with components that added up to 400W or higher.

That's a relatively not so great PSU.

I will tell you though, your components do not add up to 400w, even loaded.

Load draw
80w AMD 620
130w 4870
40w 785GM
8w 4gb ram
25w drives (however they draw very little except for spin up)
25w DVD, fans, misc etc

~308w with about 210w (17.5A) run time draw on the 12v.


There are some Apevia PSUs that have dual 12v rails, most of the ones I could find have 16a and 18a dual rails. The 4870 will draw up to 10.8a from one of those rails. The reality is it would most likely run your new system without a problem. However, I would still recommend the PSU you picked out. It's a good deal at $55.

Originally posted by: sirelk
I also would like something that would work for any future upgrades. The Apevia was fine when I first installed it in 2006 with my Athlon XP rig that had a geforce2 card. And then used it for my current Athlon 64 X2 3800+ rig. I'd hope to get at least 2-3 years out of this psu.

What are you doing with your current componets? You basically have a whole system minus HD/Case?

Edit: If you're going with the future proof mentality. You may want to try and get a crossfire board to go with your higher end PSU. It's usually around $10-$15 more. Make sure you get an 8x by 8x and not a 16x by 4x board. Then you can ad another 4870 when you're ready.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

The PSU might be a bit excessive. I'm using a 540W PSU and it's more than enough to power an overclocked E6600, 8800GTX, and 5 hard drives. Maximum efficiency of electrical equipment is generally around 80% of rated continuous load. If you're only using 200W of a 700W PSU, you'll have horrendously bad efficiency. You'll draw 400W from the wall when you're only using 200W of output.

WTF totally false. I have no idea where you got this?

I got it from graphs for OEM power supplies that were used for estimating power demand of an office building. The efficiency starts low and peaks toward the end of the graph before dropping sharply. Anand's graphs have a much wider efficiency curve.

 

[Schmide]

Ok I'm going to give you options

From Ewiz (SuperBiiz) Use 5% bing store SuperBiiz / 2% from newegg

$201 = $216 - 15RB AMD Athlon II X4 + Asus M4A78T-E Board Last combo on the list

$144 = $164 - $20RB Asus ATI Radeon HD4870 1GB DDR5

Total $345 - $15 (CC FUN15) - $19 bing = $311
($365 up front)

From Newegg

$128 = $173 - $25RB - $20RB OCZ StealthXStream OCZ700SXS 700W + OCZ Gold AMD Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600

$40 = $50 - $10 RB NZXT Beta Series CS-NT-BETA-B Black Steel

Total $168 - $4.50 bing = $164.50
($223 up front)

Should be all free shipping.

Totals $475.50
($588 up front)

Yeah there is more up front and you have to wait for rebates, but you get a new card a better case, ram, motherboard for just $25 more.

Edit: Made a mistake in the up front cost. Coupon code comes off immediately.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
I got it from graphs for OEM power supplies that were used for estimating power demand of an office building. The efficiency starts low and peaks toward the end of the graph before dropping sharply. Anand's graphs have a much wider efficiency curve.

Marketing graphs are made to sell units not necessary to be factual. They were wrong.

 

[sirelk]

Originally posted by: Schmide
Ok I'm going to give you options

From Ewiz (SuperBiiz) Use 5% bing store SuperBiiz / 2% from newegg

$201 = $216 - 15RB AMD Athlon II X4 + Asus M4A78T-E Board Last combo on the list

$144 = $164 - $20RB Asus ATI Radeon HD4870 1GB DDR5

Total $345 ($380 up front) - $15 (CC FUN15) - $19 bing = $311

The 790GX would be nice and I can get that same Asus card open box special at Newegg right now for $111 plus shipping. (I got my 7600GS as openbox, no probs).

Originally posted by: Schmide
From Newegg

$128 = $173 - $25RB - $20RB OCZ StealthXStream OCZ700SXS 700W + OCZ Gold AMD Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600

$40 = $50 - $10 RB NZXT Beta Series CS-NT-BETA-B Black Steel

Total $168 ($223 up front) - $4.50 bing = $164.50

Ok so i'm not going to see my electric meter spinning madly by using a 700W psu over a 500W variety? I like the idea of using DDR3 ram. I dunno how much faster my benches would be, but it's the latest thing.

That's a slick case. The handle seemed pretty neat on the case I chose in my original plans, but I really wouldn't use it much since I hardly move my tower around.

Originally posted by: Schmide
Should be all free shipping.

Totals $475.50 ($603 up front)

Yeah there is more up front and you have to wait for rebates, but you get a new card a better case, ram, motherboard for just $25 more.

I originally started this quest by limiting myself to $400 or less, but it seems that amount misses the cut for some of the latest technology (DDR3, 790GX, etc).

Thanks for your input. I'm taking my time and making this decision no sooner than Sunday, so the feedback will help me make a more informed purchase at least.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
I got it from graphs for OEM power supplies that were used for estimating power demand of an office building. The efficiency starts low and peaks toward the end of the graph before dropping sharply. Anand's graphs have a much wider efficiency curve.

Marketing graphs are made to sell units not necessary to be factual. They were wrong.

Wouldn't that make them overstate the efficiency rather than understate it? These graphs I had were just horrible. They looked similar to motor efficiency curves. (what a motor efficiency curve looks like, narrow efficiency region with a sharp decline)

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
I got it from graphs for OEM power supplies that were used for estimating power demand of an office building. The efficiency starts low and peaks toward the end of the graph before dropping sharply. Anand's graphs have a much wider efficiency curve.

Marketing graphs are made to sell units not necessary to be factual. They were wrong.

Wouldn't that make them overstate the efficiency rather than understate it? These graphs I had were just horrible. They looked similar to motor efficiency curves. (what a motor efficiency curve looks like, narrow efficiency region with a sharp decline)

Who cares? There is no such thing as a 50% efficient PSU and we're not talking about motors.

Maybe they were trying to unload a bunch of under rated PSUs and needed to come up with a plan to convince corporate suckers to buy them? The point is moot. Every test I've ever seen on a PSU shows that exact graph with the same variance.

Why are you arguing this?

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
I got it from graphs for OEM power supplies that were used for estimating power demand of an office building. The efficiency starts low and peaks toward the end of the graph before dropping sharply. Anand's graphs have a much wider efficiency curve.

Marketing graphs are made to sell units not necessary to be factual. They were wrong.

Wouldn't that make them overstate the efficiency rather than understate it? These graphs I had were just horrible. They looked similar to motor efficiency curves. (what a motor efficiency curve looks like, narrow efficiency region with a sharp decline)

Who cares? There is no such thing as a 50% efficient PSU and we're not talking about motors.

Maybe they were trying to unload a bunch of under rated PSUs and needed to come up with a plan to convince corporate suckers to buy them? The point is moot. Every test I've ever seen on a PSU shows that exact graph with the same variance.

Why are you arguing this?

Search google for "psu efficiency" and this will be the second result found: Antec 480W PSU, 59% efficiency at 65W, peak efficiency of 78% at 400W (83% of rated power). Maybe the reason every test you've seen looks like Anandtech is because Anandtech is the only one you've ever seen.

A few other gems:
MGE Magnum 500W, 60% at ~60W, 68% at 100W, 80% max efficiency at 350W (at 70% of rated output)
Silverstone ENS-0565, 60% at 50W, 65% at 100W, ~80% after 200W

Now to ask yourself how much power a computer actually uses. According to Anand, OP's Athlon X4 would use about 110W idle to 180W loaded (with a power hungry GTX 280 video card). Now do you see the problem with getting a huge PSU? The 80 plus guidelines state that you need 80% efficiency or better at 20% rated load which would correspond to 140W which is more power than the OP would be using most of the time. His computer falls outside of the rated guidelines so there's no assurance that he won't get slammed with 70% efficiency or maybe even lower. So then the question is how much does it matter? 80% efficiency at 110W means 138W input while 70% would be 157W. If you live in California, that extra 19W works out to roughly $25 per year in added energy costs.

To add insult to injury, the initial cost of the PSU is higher as well. Your 700W PSU is $85, but OCZ 400W is only $40, Antec 430W is $45, 80 Plus certified Rosewill 430W is $45, 80 Plus certified Antec 380W is $45. All of these PSUs I've listed have Active PFC.
An initial cost difference of $40 + $25/year = $115 wasted over the life span of a standard 3 year computer.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Search google for "psu efficiency" and this will be the second result found: Antec 480W PSU, 59% efficiency at 65W, peak efficiency of 78% at 400W (83% of rated power). Maybe the reason every test you've seen looks like Anandtech is because Anandtech is the only one you've ever seen.

A 2004 Antec unit is hardly considered quality. Did you know from 2002-2006 they had a 10% failure rate? Huh? PSU failure rate

I've seen tons of reviews. Here are a few of the PSU he was looking at.

Oh look greater than 80% efficient across the board. Same basic model.
OCZ GameXstream 700W
OCZ ModXStream-Pro 600w
StealthxStream 600w
[/quote]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
A few other gems:
MGE Magnum 500W, 60% at ~60W, 68% at 100W, 80% max efficiency at 350W (at 70% of rated output)
Silverstone ENS-0565, 60% at 50W, 65% at 100W, ~80% after 200W

You can find some crappy PSUs, I would never recommend either of those. Efficiency is not based on the PSU wattage ratting but its quality.

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
Now to ask yourself how much power a computer actually uses. According to Anand, OP's Athlon X4 would use about 110W idle to 180W loaded (with a power hungry GTX 280 video card). Now do you see the problem with getting a huge PSU? The 80 plus guidelines state that you need 80% efficiency or better at 20% rated load which would correspond to 140W which is more power than the OP would be using most of the time. His computer falls outside of the rated guidelines so there's no assurance that he won't get slammed with 70% efficiency or maybe even lower. So then the question is how much does it matter? 80% efficiency at 110W means 138W input while 70% would be 157W. If you live in California, that extra 19W works out to roughly $25 per year in added energy costs.

To add insult to injury, the initial cost of the PSU is higher as well. Your 700W PSU is $85, but OCZ 400W is only $40, Antec 430W is $45, 80 Plus certified Rosewill 430W is $45, 80 Plus certified Antec 380W is $45. All of these PSUs I've listed have Active PFC.
An initial cost difference of $40 + $25/year = $115 wasted over the life span of a standard 3 year computer.

No the PSU was $55 after rebate less with the later combo.

Edit: My math was off. If difference between a 70% and 80% efficient PSU at 110w is 19w. 720 hrs in a month. California 15c kwh, 0.15 * 11 * 720 / 1000 = $2.08 a month x 12 = $25 a year. etc. This point is moot as the PSU the OP would be getting is 80+ efficiency above 95w.

Edit: I got the 2d and idle numbers mixed up. If you're really worried about $25 a year, I don't think the OP should get a 4870. The 4870 has the worst idle power ever at 65w and 2d power at 80-90w. That's 15-40w more than the average enthusiast card. Is it worth spending an extra $50 to get the 4890 which would save him 15-40w 2d and idle? What's the value of the game?

All of this is a distraction, your original post basically claimed that a high rated PSU would be 50% efficient at 200w. I claimed that they varied at most 10% from 75w+ which I stand by.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Schmide
Ok I'm going to give you options

From Ewiz (SuperBiiz) Use 5% bing store SuperBiiz / 2% from newegg

$201 = $216 - 15RB AMD Athlon II X4 + Asus M4A78T-E Board Last combo on the list

$144 = $164 - $20RB Asus ATI Radeon HD4870 1GB DDR5

Total $345 ($380 up front) - $15 (CC FUN15) - $19 bing = $311

From Newegg

$128 = $173 - $25RB - $20RB OCZ StealthXStream OCZ700SXS 700W + OCZ Gold AMD Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600

$40 = $50 - $10 RB NZXT Beta Series CS-NT-BETA-B Black Steel

Total $168 ($223 up front) - $4.50 bing = $164.50

Should be all free shipping.

Totals $475.50 ($603 up front)

Yeah there is more up front and you have to wait for rebates, but you get a new card a better case, ram, motherboard for just $25 more.

This is a list of serious win. :thumbsup:

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: Schmide
If you're really worried about $25 a year, I don't think the OP should get a 4870. The 4870 has the worst idle power ever at 65w and 2d power at 80-90w. That's 15-40w more than the average enthusiast card. Is it worth spending an extra $50 to get the 4890 which would save him 15-40w 2d and idle? What's the value of the game?

That is something to consider. Depending on how long the OP plans to use this card, the energy saved would cover the price difference and he would get better frames as well.

All of this is a distraction, your original post basically claimed that a high rated PSU would be 50% efficient at 200w. I claimed that they varied at most 10% from 75w+ which I stand by.

When I made the first post, there was no data posted to tell whether or not that 700W PSU was any good. It has Active PFC which is good but it doesn't have 80 Plus certification. All that certification really means is that it's efficient across the entire graph and not just one narrow region nobody ever uses. Those bad PSUs I linked show this narrow efficiency band where it's terribly inefficient at typical idle load (60-70% at ~100W) but over 80% efficient toward 300W which barely any computer will ever use. If the specs for the 700W supply on newegg say it's 85% peak efficiency but for some reason it's not 80 Plus, I want to know what's wrong with this PSU. Why does it not have this rating? Even a $40 350W PSU is capable of being 80 Plus certified with 87% peak efficiency. I can't help but think the 700W PSU is of very poor quality if it can't pass even the most basic PSU standards.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1
When I made the first post, there was no data posted to tell whether or not that 700W PSU was any good. It has Active PFC which is good but it doesn't have 80 Plus certification. All that certification really means is that it's efficient across the entire graph and not just one narrow region nobody ever uses. Those bad PSUs I linked show this narrow efficiency band where it's terribly inefficient at typical idle load (60-70% at ~100W) but over 80% efficient toward 300W which barely any computer will ever use. If the specs for the 700W supply on newegg say it's 85% peak efficiency but for some reason it's not 80 Plus, I want to know what's wrong with this PSU. Why does it not have this rating? Even a $40 350W PSU is capable of being 80 Plus certified with 87% peak efficiency. I can't help but think the 700W PSU is of very poor quality if it can't pass even the most basic PSU standards.

Seriously the sky is falling. Yes you had no data yet you made an extreme claim.

The StealthXStream 700 has only been out like 10 months. OCZ previously kept the StealthXStream for the cheaper segment. OCZ ModXStream 700 held the segment and has the 80 plus rating and I doubt the difference is that great. I wouldn't be surprised if it receives the rating in the future. It doesn't mean it's poor quality, especially not very poor quality.

Regardless, even if it doesn't maintain 80 plus efficiency, I highly doubt it drops below the high 70s. Look at the OCZ PSUs that are listed.

OCZ 80 plus

No where near the 50% you were claiming. Please show me a 50% efficient PSU at the 100w+ power draw!

Edit; All this talk reminds me of the South Park Episode where the Prius owners would smell their own farts.