Protestant Church Endorses Gay Marriage

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: zendari


Their actions show that they either fail to understand or disregard the church's teachings.

The actions of many conservatives show them to either fail to understand or disregard the church's teachings. God does not favor one political party over the other. Just as he does not favor one country over the other. Liberals nor conservatives will be spared judgement in the end.

 

[jjzelinski]

Originally posted by: joshsquall
From a Christian point of view, this is wrong. Marriage, as defined by the Bible, is between a man and a woman.

From an economic and social point of view, gay marriage just isn't practical.

Feel free to live together and love each other for all of your days, but marriage is not for gays, in the eyes of God or society.

Economic good? It sounds like you're advocating either communism or the borg collective. To extend your train of thought, eliminating marriage rights for everyboy is economically superior. Great idea, progress marches on. And as far as "the greater social good" goes, I think you're assuming that the demented little world with which you surround yourself is somehow significant enough to justify designing the rest of our country around it's mean-spiritied preconceptions. No thanks.

And lastly, what in god's name does your superstition have to do with society? Our society is governed by the laws of man, not "god". That's why gays and lesbians need get married in a church, anything past that is none of your concern. They can be married by the court; everybody wins.

 

[LibLion]

Blacks, handicaps, and elderly have the possibility of producing children. Homosexuals do not, without some sort of crazy Jerry Springer type miracle.

In vitro. Surrogacy. Are these "Jerry Springer" type miracles, considering heterosexual couples also use them when they're reproductively challenged?

And while, yes, an elderly man can conceivably impregnate someone, he'd need Viagra (another "Jerry Springer" miracle?) and a woman in pre-menopause. So, can two elderly people get married, or can an elderly man only marry pre-menopausal women?

Also, young heterosexual couples who choose to live child-free, or are barren - they're not allowed to get married?

This is all, of course, working under the assumption that people only have sex/get married to produce children and invalidating relationships that are based on an expression of love and companionship.

 

[rustynails]

Originally posted by: zendari
Looks like liberals went from hating the church to hijacking it. If you can't beat em, join em. The heretics aim to make a mockery of gods name.

Exactly, the majority of Catholics in the states are registered democrats. Its no wonder that a lack of boundaries and acceptance to any life style has created a perfect atmosphere for pedophilia, rape, and abuse of power.


? you can always tell the weakest of arguments as soon as the limited vocabulary squeezes out predictable words like ?bigotry.?


~n

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
never mind, it's a wasted effort.

QFT.

I don't know why everyone else bothers with these threads anymore.

 

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
never mind, it's a wasted effort.

QFT.

I don't know why everyone else bothers with these threads anymore.

You know what, you're right!

I'm done responding to Rip/Zendari/etc.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: rustynails
Exactly, the majority of Catholics in the states are registered democrats. Its no wonder that a lack of boundaries and acceptance to any life style has created a perfect atmosphere for pedophilia, rape, and abuse of power.


? you can always tell the weakest of arguments as soon as the limited vocabulary squeezes out predictable words like ?bigotry.?
~n

So you're claiming a cause-and-effect relationship between, say, the societal acceptance of gay relationships and pedophilia, rape, and abuse of power?

Since your argument is obviously "the strongest", please point me to the peer-reviewed studies, published in reputable scientific journals, that demonstrate this remarkable connection.

 

[crimson117]

The church was criticized last year for its television advertising campaign featuring a gay couple, among others, being excluded from a church. CBS and NBC rejected the 30-second ads.

Gotta love Fox News, huh?

The church was criticized by some - those who like that their church excludes people who are different. But it was applauded by many others, including UCC members, non-members, and anyone who's ever felt excluded by a hateful church for being themselves.

I grew up in a UCC church (though I'm not very religious anymore), and believe me, they are just as into the bible and jesus as anyone. But they don't hate or exclude people for being different, like some churches do.

They have a simple message of "You are welcome here!" and "Jesus didn?t turn people away".

You can see the aforementioned ad at: http://www.stillspeaking.com/default-1.htm

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: zendari
The heretics aim to make a mockery of gods name.

No need. The radical bigots in the church have already done a fine job of that.

As an atheist, it's nice to know there are some people of faith left who understand the concepts of compassion and acceptance in Jesus' teachings. Score one for the good guys.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: zendari
The heretics aim to make a mockery of gods name.

No need. The radical bigots in the church have already done a fine job of that.

As an atheist, it's nice to know there are some people of faith left who understand the concepts of compassion and acceptance in Jesus' teachings. Score one for the good guys.

These "good guys" are encouraging blatant sinning, in their own eyes. This is neither compassionate nor acceptable. Love gays, and accept them in your church and as friends, but don't encourage them to marry (a union of man and woman) or sleep together.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: zendari
The heretics aim to make a mockery of gods name.

No need. The radical bigots in the church have already done a fine job of that.

As an atheist, it's nice to know there are some people of faith left who understand the concepts of compassion and acceptance in Jesus' teachings. Score one for the good guys.

These "good guys" are encouraging blatant sinning, in their own eyes. This is neither compassionate nor acceptable. Love gays, and accept them in your church and as friends, but don't encourage them to marry (a union of man and woman) or sleep together.

Why not? You have offered as complete case as to why they shouldn't nor have you logically justified your position as to why it should be applied to all homosexsuals.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: zendari
The heretics aim to make a mockery of gods name.

No need. The radical bigots in the church have already done a fine job of that.

As an atheist, it's nice to know there are some people of faith left who understand the concepts of compassion and acceptance in Jesus' teachings. Score one for the good guys.

These "good guys" are encouraging blatant sinning, in their own eyes. This is neither compassionate nor acceptable. Love gays, and accept them in your church and as friends, but don't encourage them to marry (a union of man and woman) or sleep together.

Why not? You have offered as complete case as to why they shouldn't nor have you logically justified your position as to why it should be applied to all homosexsuals.

I'm not trying to justify or prove anything. What I'm saying is:
-These are Christians accepting gay marriage (and therefore, gay sex) - a sin, as outlined in the Bible, and taught by 99% of Protestant/Catholic/Mormon churches.
-A main theme in Christianity is to hate sin, and not promote it.
-Based on beliefs that homosexuality is itself a sin, these people are promoting sin.
-This is against their own beliefs, which should lead to cognitive dissonance.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: zendari
The heretics aim to make a mockery of gods name.

No need. The radical bigots in the church have already done a fine job of that.

As an atheist, it's nice to know there are some people of faith left who understand the concepts of compassion and acceptance in Jesus' teachings. Score one for the good guys.

These "good guys" are encouraging blatant sinning, in their own eyes. This is neither compassionate nor acceptable. Love gays, and accept them in your church and as friends, but don't encourage them to marry (a union of man and woman) or sleep together.

Why not? You have offered as complete case as to why they shouldn't nor have you logically justified your position as to why it should be applied to all homosexsuals.

I'm not trying to justify or prove anything. What I'm saying is:
-These are Christians accepting gay marriage (and therefore, gay sex) - a sin, as outlined in the Bible, and taught by 99% of Protestant/Catholic/Mormon churches.
-A main theme in Christianity is to hate sin, and not promote it.
-Based on beliefs that homosexuality is itself a sin, these people are promoting sin.
-This is against their own beliefs, which should lead to cognitive dissonance.

1 - Yes you are, you're trying to prove that "homosexsuality" is determental to society, the economy and the world in general.

2 - Some Christian are smart enough to realize homsexsuality was considered a sin because most people back in the day lived in small tribes. People didn't live that long due to they didn't have modern medicine. Women had be having babies and one homosexual in tribe would not be a good thing by any means.

3- Yes, but you're making the theme "homosexuality" is bad infinitly more important than all of the others things in Christianity. Explain to my why diviorce isn't illegal.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: zendari
The heretics aim to make a mockery of gods name.

No need. The radical bigots in the church have already done a fine job of that.

As an atheist, it's nice to know there are some people of faith left who understand the concepts of compassion and acceptance in Jesus' teachings. Score one for the good guys.

These "good guys" are encouraging blatant sinning, in their own eyes. This is neither compassionate nor acceptable. Love gays, and accept them in your church and as friends, but don't encourage them to marry (a union of man and woman) or sleep together.

Why not? You have offered as complete case as to why they shouldn't nor have you logically justified your position as to why it should be applied to all homosexsuals.

I'm not trying to justify or prove anything. What I'm saying is:
-These are Christians accepting gay marriage (and therefore, gay sex) - a sin, as outlined in the Bible, and taught by 99% of Protestant/Catholic/Mormon churches.
-A main theme in Christianity is to hate sin, and not promote it.
-Based on beliefs that homosexuality is itself a sin, these people are promoting sin.
-This is against their own beliefs, which should lead to cognitive dissonance.

1 - Yes you are, you're trying to prove that "homosexsuality" is determental to society, the economy and the world in general.

2 - Some Christian are smart enough to realize homsexsuality was considered a sin because most people back in the day lived in small tribes. People didn't live that long due to they didn't have modern medicine. Women had be having babies and one homosexual in tribe would not be a good thing by any means.

3- Yes, but you're making the theme "homosexuality" is bad infinitly more important than all of the others things in Christianity. Explain to my why diviorce isn't illegal.

1 - It is.

2 - Proof? Also, proof that it no longer applies today. Please cite God or Paul.. take your choice.

3 - Every sin is equal. They all accomplish the same thing. Also, I'd be fine with the Church outlawing divorce, except for extreme circumstances (which IS in the Bible). Church and laws are entirely separate. I don't really care if gay marriage is legal, as it doesn't affect me. However, it is not productive for society and I don't feel that gay couples should get marriage incentives. Gay marriage being ordained by the Church is wrong. It's against their own beliefs, as I explained above.

 

[zendari]

God hates divorce but accepts it because people are imperfect and sinful, and thus their union is going to be imperfect.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: zendari
The heretics aim to make a mockery of gods name.

No need. The radical bigots in the church have already done a fine job of that.

As an atheist, it's nice to know there are some people of faith left who understand the concepts of compassion and acceptance in Jesus' teachings. Score one for the good guys.

These "good guys" are encouraging blatant sinning, in their own eyes. This is neither compassionate nor acceptable. Love gays, and accept them in your church and as friends, but don't encourage them to marry (a union of man and woman) or sleep together.

Why not? You have offered as complete case as to why they shouldn't nor have you logically justified your position as to why it should be applied to all homosexsuals.

I'm not trying to justify or prove anything. What I'm saying is:
-These are Christians accepting gay marriage (and therefore, gay sex) - a sin, as outlined in the Bible, and taught by 99% of Protestant/Catholic/Mormon churches.
-A main theme in Christianity is to hate sin, and not promote it.
-Based on beliefs that homosexuality is itself a sin, these people are promoting sin.
-This is against their own beliefs, which should lead to cognitive dissonance.

1 - Yes you are, you're trying to prove that "homosexsuality" is determental to society, the economy and the world in general.

2 - Some Christian are smart enough to realize homsexsuality was considered a sin because most people back in the day lived in small tribes. People didn't live that long due to they didn't have modern medicine. Women had be having babies and one homosexual in tribe would not be a good thing by any means.

3- Yes, but you're making the theme "homosexuality" is bad infinitly more important than all of the others things in Christianity. Explain to my why diviorce isn't illegal.

1 - It is.

2 - Proof? Also, proof that it no longer applies today. Please cite God or Paul.. take your choice.

3 - Every sin is equal. They all accomplish the same thing. Also, I'd be fine with the Church outlawing divorce, except for extreme circumstances (which IS in the Bible). Church and laws are entirely separate. I don't really care if gay marriage is legal, as it doesn't affect me. However, it is not productive for society and I don't feel that gay couples should get marriage incentives. Gay marriage being ordained by the Church is wrong. It's against their own beliefs, as I explained above.

It seems you're confused. The legalization of gay marriage isn't a attack on religion. It's giving people rights and removing discrimination agaisnt homosexsuals. I don't give a fvck what you do in your church or what your personal beilefs hold. When you start enforcing your own personal beilefs amoung others they aren't personal anymore. You become immoral.

We aren't in small tribes anymore, it's irrevelant. People can have sex for purely pleasure related reasons, they don't have to make kids for the survival of their tribe. According to your own logic we shouldn't give couples who don't bear childeren the sames benifits as those that will. I for one dont' plan to have kids ever, I don't think the near future is going be happy. What you explained above is irrevelant, plenty of churchs have already come to the conclusion that these passages don't apply to the 21st centrey.

 

[piasabird]

Lots of Democrats go to church.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: zendari
God hates divorce but accepts it because people are imperfect and sinful, and thus their union is going to be imperfect.

Did he tell you this or was there a memo?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall
From a Christian point of view, this is wrong. Marriage, as defined by the Bible, is between a man and a woman.

From an economic and social point of view, gay marriage just isn't practical.

Feel free to live together and love each other for all of your days, but marriage is not for gays, in the eyes of God or society.

Marriage in the bible is NEVER specifically stated as "One gay cannot marry another gay dude". - In respone the the bold

Assuming that people ONLY got married because they wanted to have kids, you'd be correct. - In response to the underline part

Oh really?
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
Romans 1:24-27
Genesis 2:21-24
Matthew 19:4-6

As far as economically/socially, the world can't run off of homosexuality. There must be heterosexuals to produce children to ensure the survival and wellbeing of mankind. Homosexuals cannot produce children, and therefore can't contribute to this. Yes, some married heterosexuals choose not to have children, but homosexuals can't have them, no matter how hard they wish.

Regarding the part I bolded...

The implication is obviously that if gay people start marrying, there will be fewer heterosexual couples having kids, right? Please explain that one to me, because I'm dying to hear it.

I mean, there are two important things here. First, gay people aren't going to have kids no matter what...so getting married isn't any worse from your point of view. It's not like if we ban them from same sex marriages they are suddenly going to turn straight and have a wife (or husband) and kids. On the other side of things, if we allow gay marriage, straight people aren't going to suddenly become gay, marry someone of the same sex and NOT have kids.

So really, what's the logic here, because I'm not seeing it.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
never mind, it's a wasted effort.

QFT.

I don't know why everyone else bothers with these threads anymore.

I don't know, maybe it's because I refuse to believe these guys aren't as stupid and narrow minded as evidence would suggest they are.

 

[Pepsei]

Originally posted by: zendari
God hates divorce but accepts it because people are imperfect and sinful, and thus their union is going to be imperfect.

You're slightly incorrect, Jesus specificly spelled out that Divorce is a sin. Because only God can break up a marriage, so even if you get a "divorce" you're still married in god's eye. so when you remarry, you'll be commiting adultery. Pretty much you're only allow to get divorced for one reason.

"but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery." (Matt 5:31-32, NASB)

 

[Rainsford]

I have a question for the religious conservatives in this thread...how do you think Jesus would feel about the government outlawing gay marriage? Certainly you might have a case for gay marriage not being an accepted part of Christianity, but there is little evidence in the Bible to support using a democractic government to force everyone to live by your religious beliefs. Obviously democracy wasn't a real popular thing when the Bible was written, but from what I remember, emphasis was placed on teaching and voluntary religious education vs enforcement of religious rules.

Believing something and teaching those beliefs to others is fine, forcing others to abide by those beliefs is not really supported as well. Certainly there are people who want to ban gay marriage for non-religious reasons (or so they claim), but those of you who base your argument on religion are missing the point. Whether your religion says it's bad or not, what does your religion say about forcing non-believers to live by your beliefs?

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall
From a Christian point of view, this is wrong. Marriage, as defined by the Bible, is between a man and a woman.

From an economic and social point of view, gay marriage just isn't practical.

Feel free to live together and love each other for all of your days, but marriage is not for gays, in the eyes of God or society.

Marriage in the bible is NEVER specifically stated as "One gay cannot marry another gay dude". - In respone the the bold

Assuming that people ONLY got married because they wanted to have kids, you'd be correct. - In response to the underline part

Oh really?
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13
Romans 1:24-27
Genesis 2:21-24
Matthew 19:4-6

As far as economically/socially, the world can't run off of homosexuality. There must be heterosexuals to produce children to ensure the survival and wellbeing of mankind. Homosexuals cannot produce children, and therefore can't contribute to this. Yes, some married heterosexuals choose not to have children, but homosexuals can't have them, no matter how hard they wish.

Regarding the part I bolded...

The implication is obviously that if gay people start marrying, there will be fewer heterosexual couples having kids, right? Please explain that one to me, because I'm dying to hear it.

I mean, there are two important things here. First, gay people aren't going to have kids no matter what...so getting married isn't any worse from your point of view. It's not like if we ban them from same sex marriages they are suddenly going to turn straight and have a wife (or husband) and kids. On the other side of things, if we allow gay marriage, straight people aren't going to suddenly become gay, marry someone of the same sex and NOT have kids.

So really, what's the logic here, because I'm not seeing it.

Legalizing it means accepting it as a viable lifestyle. This leads into the discussion of whether you believe homosexuality is "in-born" or learned. I believe it is learned, and acceptance of it will lead to more people choosing it as a lifestyle.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: zendari
The heretics aim to make a mockery of gods name.

No need. The radical bigots in the church have already done a fine job of that.

As an atheist, it's nice to know there are some people of faith left who understand the concepts of compassion and acceptance in Jesus' teachings. Score one for the good guys.

These "good guys" are encouraging blatant sinning, in their own eyes. This is neither compassionate nor acceptable. Love gays, and accept them in your church and as friends, but don't encourage them to marry (a union of man and woman) or sleep together.

Why not? You have offered as complete case as to why they shouldn't nor have you logically justified your position as to why it should be applied to all homosexsuals.

I'm not trying to justify or prove anything. What I'm saying is:
-These are Christians accepting gay marriage (and therefore, gay sex) - a sin, as outlined in the Bible, and taught by 99% of Protestant/Catholic/Mormon churches.
-A main theme in Christianity is to hate sin, and not promote it.
-Based on beliefs that homosexuality is itself a sin, these people are promoting sin.
-This is against their own beliefs, which should lead to cognitive dissonance.

1 - Yes you are, you're trying to prove that "homosexsuality" is determental to society, the economy and the world in general.

2 - Some Christian are smart enough to realize homsexsuality was considered a sin because most people back in the day lived in small tribes. People didn't live that long due to they didn't have modern medicine. Women had be having babies and one homosexual in tribe would not be a good thing by any means.

3- Yes, but you're making the theme "homosexuality" is bad infinitly more important than all of the others things in Christianity. Explain to my why diviorce isn't illegal.

1 - It is.

2 - Proof? Also, proof that it no longer applies today. Please cite God or Paul.. take your choice.

3 - Every sin is equal. They all accomplish the same thing. Also, I'd be fine with the Church outlawing divorce, except for extreme circumstances (which IS in the Bible). Church and laws are entirely separate. I don't really care if gay marriage is legal, as it doesn't affect me. However, it is not productive for society and I don't feel that gay couples should get marriage incentives. Gay marriage being ordained by the Church is wrong. It's against their own beliefs, as I explained above.

It seems you're confused. The legalization of gay marriage isn't a attack on religion. It's giving people rights and removing discrimination agaisnt homosexsuals. I don't give a fvck what you do in your church or what your personal beilefs hold. When you start enforcing your own personal beilefs amoung others they aren't personal anymore. You become immoral.

We aren't in small tribes anymore, it's irrevelant. People can have sex for purely pleasure related reasons, they don't have to make kids for the survival of their tribe. According to your own logic we shouldn't give couples who don't bear childeren the sames benifits as those that will. I for one dont' plan to have kids ever, I don't think the near future is going be happy. What you explained above is irrevelant, plenty of churchs have already come to the conclusion that these passages don't apply to the 21st centrey.

Thousands of people have killed themselves while in cults, as well. Does that make it right that it's accepted by multiple people as truth?

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: zendari
The heretics aim to make a mockery of gods name.

No need. The radical bigots in the church have already done a fine job of that.

As an atheist, it's nice to know there are some people of faith left who understand the concepts of compassion and acceptance in Jesus' teachings. Score one for the good guys.

These "good guys" are encouraging blatant sinning, in their own eyes. This is neither compassionate nor acceptable. Love gays, and accept them in your church and as friends, but don't encourage them to marry (a union of man and woman) or sleep together.

Why not? You have offered as complete case as to why they shouldn't nor have you logically justified your position as to why it should be applied to all homosexsuals.

I'm not trying to justify or prove anything. What I'm saying is:
-These are Christians accepting gay marriage (and therefore, gay sex) - a sin, as outlined in the Bible, and taught by 99% of Protestant/Catholic/Mormon churches.
-A main theme in Christianity is to hate sin, and not promote it.
-Based on beliefs that homosexuality is itself a sin, these people are promoting sin.
-This is against their own beliefs, which should lead to cognitive dissonance.

1 - Yes you are, you're trying to prove that "homosexsuality" is determental to society, the economy and the world in general.

2 - Some Christian are smart enough to realize homsexsuality was considered a sin because most people back in the day lived in small tribes. People didn't live that long due to they didn't have modern medicine. Women had be having babies and one homosexual in tribe would not be a good thing by any means.

3- Yes, but you're making the theme "homosexuality" is bad infinitly more important than all of the others things in Christianity. Explain to my why diviorce isn't illegal.

1 - It is.

2 - Proof? Also, proof that it no longer applies today. Please cite God or Paul.. take your choice.

3 - Every sin is equal. They all accomplish the same thing. Also, I'd be fine with the Church outlawing divorce, except for extreme circumstances (which IS in the Bible). Church and laws are entirely separate. I don't really care if gay marriage is legal, as it doesn't affect me. However, it is not productive for society and I don't feel that gay couples should get marriage incentives. Gay marriage being ordained by the Church is wrong. It's against their own beliefs, as I explained above.

It seems you're confused. The legalization of gay marriage isn't a attack on religion. It's giving people rights and removing discrimination agaisnt homosexsuals. I don't give a fvck what you do in your church or what your personal beilefs hold. When you start enforcing your own personal beilefs amoung others they aren't personal anymore. You become immoral.

We aren't in small tribes anymore, it's irrevelant. People can have sex for purely pleasure related reasons, they don't have to make kids for the survival of their tribe. According to your own logic we shouldn't give couples who don't bear childeren the sames benifits as those that will. I for one dont' plan to have kids ever, I don't think the near future is going be happy. What you explained above is irrevelant, plenty of churchs have already come to the conclusion that these passages don't apply to the 21st centrey.

Thousands of people have killed themselves while in cults, as well. Does that make it right that it's accepted by multiple people as truth?

According them, obiviously it is.