Protests in Gaza

[highland145]

Also good that we have an anti Semite in office too.

 

[zinfamous]

Also good that we have an anti Semite in office too.

Hey, he's an equal-opportunity bigot!

 

[SMOGZINN]

What would you do if you, your family, and everyone you knew had their homes and land stolen and then where kept in an open air prison for 70 years? Would you want to "make peace" with your captors, or get revenge?

For peace to occur someone has to eventually be the bigger person.

Israel gave themselves this problem and they will have to deal with it.

They have to deal with it, but it is a stretch to say that they gave themselves this problem. Mattering on just where you count 'this problem' starting either Egypt created this problem (for it's blocade of the Straits of Tiran in 1950), or Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq together created this problem when they attacked the Israeli forces in 1948, or probably the real beginning is when the Arabs created this problem when they started violence in response to the formation of a Jewish state in 1947. The situation we have today is in a very real way a continuation of those riots started by the Arabs, and escalated by Egypt in particular, in 1947 with both sides continuing to escalate the situation.

That means either:

Let us look at these realistically.

1. Ethnically cleanse the state of Palestinians and non-jews (this is their current objective and modus operandi)

I'm afraid that this is a very real possibility.

2. Integration (Impossible while radical zionists hold power)

It is not jut Zionists that are radical and in power. The Muslim and Arab forces are every bit as radical and unwilling to allow peace. Let us not forget that they are the ones openly calling for the death of all Jews.

3. Dissolution of the State of Israel.

Let's face reality, this is never going to happen. Israel is a nuclear power and will use them before they allow the State of Israel to fall. The Holocaust has shaped their worldview, and they will never allow themselves to be in a position where something similar could happen again. They will end the world before they allow themselves to lose power.

Choice No. 1 is what Israel is doing now. Problem is that they have millions more to kill an cleanse before they succeed. If you think Israel can be successful killing millions while the world watches then you believe Israel will continue to exist.

I think eventually choice No 3 will be what happens, but only after Israel loses its protector in the US. That could take decades. In the meantime they will continue their ethnic cleansing and human rights abuses.

Choice Number 3 will never happen. They truly believe that they are fighting for their very survival, and the propaganda from the Arab world reinforces that. Even if the US abandons them they will fight on, and just become openly genocidal if needed. A people fighting for their survival will go to any lengths. So, we have to take the danger of Choice no. 1 seriously.

I can see only a few solutions to this:

1. If the one of the two sides take on a philosophy of pacifism and absolute peaceful protest. This could manage to remove the peoples will to continue the violence. I know you argument, and I agree it is a dangerous gamble, but it is better than continuing the violence until genocide. How we convince either side to give this a try is completely beyond me.

2. Genocide. The two sides keep on fighting until one of them ends up killing the other. This seems to be the path we are currently on. This is the worst possible outcome, all other solutions are better then this.

3. We move the Palestinian state away from the region. We can't move the Jewish state, it is already too powerful. This would be no easy task. The Palestinians do not want to move. No one wants them because of their history of violence. And no matter how we go about it there will be people convinced it is a prison state.

Overall, this is a very nearly impossible situation. Human history has shown that these sorts of conflict normally end in tragedy. I hope we find a way to be better than this, but I fully expect that this will eventually end in a nuclear war.

 

[Oyeve]

As long as isreal exists as is there will never be peace or stability.

 

[Noah Abrams]

The good news is that support for Israel is rapidly declining in the US, particularly among younger people. There will be a time in the not so distant future when the US will no longer shield Israel from being held to account for their actions instead of just reflexively immunizing them.

Israel in its current form is a rogue, apartheid nation. It’s long past time we stopped accepting that.

That sounds like how America is becoming more diverse and minorities are getting a bigger say about in things. When in reality the entrenched monied white class remains firmly in power. Perhaps same can be said for US being a province of Israel. Regardless of how much support there is among population, the money that flows in to both parties ensures America remains a toady to Israel.

 

[Noah Abrams]

For peace to occur someone has to eventually be the bigger person.


They have to deal with it, but it is a stretch to say that they gave themselves this problem. Mattering on just where you count 'this problem' starting either Egypt created this problem (for it's blocade of the Straits of Tiran in 1950), or Jordan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq together created this problem when they attacked the Israeli forces in 1948, or probably the real beginning is when the Arabs created this problem when they started violence in response to the formation of a Jewish state in 1947. The situation we have today is in a very real way a continuation of those riots started by the Arabs, and escalated by Egypt in particular, in 1947 with both sides continuing to escalate the situation.

.

I almost laughed at the above. All the problems started by the Arabs, and no mention of how Israel got created in first place and the mass expulsion of people from their own homes and land. Ha...this kind of crap would by funny if the consequences weren't so tragic.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I almost laughed at the above. All the problems started by the Arabs, and no mention of how Israel got created in first place and the mass expulsion of people from their own homes and land. Ha...this kind of crap would by funny if the consequences weren't so tragic.

The history of that is rather complex. Mattering on how we look at it we can say that the Jewish people bought most of the land fairly from the Ottoman empire and was forcefully removed from it when the ottomans decided they didn't like them all living in one place.

 

[fskimospy]

That sounds like how America is becoming more diverse and minorities are getting a bigger say about in things. When in reality the entrenched monied white class remains firmly in power. Perhaps same can be said for US being a province of Israel. Regardless of how much support there is among population, the money that flows in to both parties ensures America remains a toady to Israel.

It could end up in a situation like gun control where the vast majority of the country wants more gun control (less influence by Israel) but a small group of ultra-committed people (NRA/AIPAC) are able to keep policy in their preferred direction.

I guess we'll find out, but at a minimum reflexive defense for Israel is no longer a requirement on the Democratic side so it's currently moving in the right direction.

 

[Noah Abrams]

I guess we'll find out, but at a minimum reflexive defense for Israel is no longer a requirement on the Democratic side so it's currently moving in the right direction.

That is true. The leading contender (or so it seems right now), Bernie, is no toady of Israel and that is why is hated by the Israel and its powerful lobby here. A Jew who sees Israel for what it is - I think the same kind of anti Zionist Jew in the mold of folks like Chomsky etc.

 

[hal2kilo]

That sounds like how America is becoming more diverse and minorities are getting a bigger say about in things. When in reality the entrenched monied white class remains firmly in power. Perhaps same can be said for US being a province of Israel. Regardless of how much support there is among population, the money that flows in to both parties ensures America remains a toady to Israel.

Hard to beat that AIPAC cash.

 

[Noah Abrams]

If there was democracy in the middle east, the Palestinians would be in a lot better shape. As it is, the dictators and monarchs there are firmly in bed with Israel and its allies - now they don't even bother with the posturing that they used to. Their being in bed with Israel is one major reason they get firm support from America, which helps in keeping their opposition crushed. So once again, democracy in the middle east is the last thing America wants because it threatens the imperialism. Which in turn provides grounds of grievances to the Islamic extremists. Who will the millions of helpless subjects turn to whose voices and views don't get heard and their rulers remain in bed with those who do wrong - the extremists of course. So we create the extremists, and we then go to fight them. Because, well, they hate us. What a perfect circle.

 

[sdifox]

Also good that we have an anti Semite in office too.

not sure he is anti semite though, he has Jewish son in law after all.

 

[highland145]

not sure he is anti semite though, he has Jewish son in law after all.

Wasn't that one of the talking points prior to the election?

 

[Noah Abrams]

I remember a former CIA top level guy in the middle east (forgetting his name right now) came out with this book years ago. The main thesis of the book was that the American decision makers would be insane not to realize that if they want to reduce extremism in the middle east, the first thing they need to do is to not give a free hand to Israel and not to back the monarchs and dictators.

But of course the decision makers here are not insane. They care only about their money masters.

 

[sdifox]

Wasn't that one of the talking points prior to the election?

I didn't follow all the hoopla before the election too much.

 

[zinfamous]

not sure he is anti semite though, he has Jewish son in law after all.

He likes the jews for their little clay toys that go spin.

 

[sdifox]

He likes the jews for their little clay toys that go spin.

Are you talking about the Mezuzah?

 

[Oyeve]

Are you talking about the Mezuzah?

Dreidel. Mezuzah is the thing on every door in a kosher home.

 

[sdifox]

Dreidel. Mezuzah is the thing on every door in a kosher home.

spintop...

 

[Jaskalas]

Jackalas,

Watch the video at the top of the page. Was he Hamas?

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/30/israel-gaza-march-killed-protest/

He paid for the crimes of past transgressors who crossed the border and did kill people. He paid for the crimes of the very large crowd behind him, behind the camera. Who had spent days / weeks threatening border position(s) with fire, rocks, and sabotage. As a result of past violence, the border is guarded by a military fortification. As a result of present aggression, the soldiers will shoot to kill all who approach their position. To approach is to threaten. Given the context, no military would act differently.

His action did not occur in a vacuum by itself. As much as you want to pass it off as an innocent man being gunned down. He clearly knew what he was doing. Such is the risk of being present when people threaten a military position. If a person wants to avoid the risk of being killed by the military, do not threaten them. Do not approach them. The border is closed.

They don't have to attempt to breach the border, they don't have to try to kill Israelis. You know what happens when they do.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't think Trump is an anti-semite, but he'll pander to them for votes while pandering to rapture seeking Fundies at the same time. Neither group has the wherewithal to see that they're being played, of course.

 

[Jhhnn]

He paid for the crimes of past transgressors who crossed the border and did kill people. He paid for the crimes of the very large crowd behind him, behind the camera. Who had spent days / weeks threatening border position(s) with fire, rocks, and sabotage. As a result of past violence, the border is guarded by a military fortification. As a result of present aggression, the soldiers will shoot to kill all who approach their position. To approach is to threaten. Given the context, no military would act differently.

His action did not occur in a vacuum by itself. As much as you want to pass it off as an innocent man being gunned down. He clearly knew what he was doing. Such is the risk of being present when people threaten a military position. If a person wants to avoid the risk of being killed by the military, do not threaten them. Do not approach them. The border is closed.

Like I said, you'll excuse any act of barbarism perpetrated by the IDF.

 

[Incorruptible]

What do you think happens to Israel when the US is no longer able to protect them from all their neighbors? Every single state except the US has condemned Israel.


Sooner or later, the palestinians will get their revenge. Israel will not last more than another 50 or so years. Probably less. Enjoy your open air prison while you have it, shill. Soon you will be the prisoners.

Israel will defend itself and its highly unlikely a country will attack them, Many of the countries condemning them are anti-semitic so its no surprise.

 

[Vic]

Israel isn't being condemned here because of anti-semitism, but because the Israeli government has locked up 2 million people in a 141 square mile concentration camp.

 

[highland145]

Israel will defend itself and its highly unlikely a country will attack them, Many of the countries condemning them are anti-semitic so its no surprise.

Well, Thumper is against them. Google says. :colbert;