Q2 vs. Q3 video cards.

[pdqcarrera]

What is the best video card for Quake2? Call me a dinosaur but I still prefer (as do a lot of others as evidenced in the # of players on the net) internet fragging Q2 (WoD rules!) over Q3, but all the video card benchmark tests are based on Q3 and Unreal. I need to upgrade my card but don't know what's the best choice

 

[Sunner]

GTS probabaly.
While I havent seen any benches including Q2 for the more recent cards, nVidia's OpenGL drivers are far supperior to all the other consumer oriented companies out there, and hence their performance is typically better.

Either way, it will be more than fast enough.
Heck even my overclocked TNT2-Ultra could score in the high 70's in 1024x768x32 in Q2.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I hit 60FPS running 1600x1200 32bit in Quake2 Timedemo1, with an old GeForce DDR at default clock. With a GF2 and a decent CPU you should be able to crank everything and never worry about it.

 

[oldfart]

Any of the newer video cards will fly in Q2. For the heck of it, I just tried demo1 @ 1600 x 1200 x 32 on my Radeon. 75.8 FPS. BTW, I agree about Q2. Still rocks! I like the weapons better than Q3. The beautiful blue spiral of the Rail as it slices through your opponent, the much better RL, the BOOM! of the SS. Q3 lost something. And if you like WoD, you are a true lunatic!!

 

[pdqcarrera]

Thanks guys for the help! I'm stoked at the thought of high frame rates at high resolutions. With new CPU in place (o/c to 868, can't hit 933 though which is a slight bummer) and a new card (GTS likely) I should be stepping up the ranks and fraggin' some serious Q2 heiny! Lunacy rocks!

 

[RoboTECH]

dude, if Q2 is your thing, grab a 5500, a GTS or a Radeon

they ALL fly in Q2.

trust me, I know. I'm with you. Rocket Arena 2 is STILL MY GOD!!!!

 

[BFG10K]

I've stumbled into a conspiracy meeting of "Quake 2 rules, lets kill Quake 3!"

Seriously Quake 2 is a fine game just like Quake 1 and Quake 3 are, but I say the multiplayer pace is a bit slower than Quake 3. Any half-decent video card will run Quake 2 well. My Voodoo3 and my friend's TNT2 run it pretty well at 1024 x 768.

 

[oldfart]

You know what it is for me? Q2 was the 1st FPS I ever played (and I played it a lot)! I guess because of that I'll always like it. People who played a lot of Q1 didn't like Q2. That damn RL in Q3. Whats with the wimpy sound? *poof poof* :disgust:. And where is my Rail Gun Spiral??? Give it back! I do like the look of Q3, but not some of the weapons. How times change. I got my 1st 3d card for Q2. A Diamond Stealth II S220 Rendition Verite 2100 with 4 meg of ram!! To this day, that card had some of the best image quality you've ever seen. I remember tweaking the heck out of that P200 to get to the earth shattering 20 FPS 640 x 480!!

 

[RoboTECH]

Quake1 was a complete rocket launcher-dominated game. The maps were (And still are) the best going, however.

Quake2 had the best weapon balance and selection. The pace was much slower, but the way the maps were and the cool things you could do with the physics (double jumping, ramp jumping, etc.) good players are INCREDIBLE to watch. The railgun and chaingun were the BOMB

Quake3 has the best graphics and sound, but, IMHO, it is designed too much as a "generic/vanilla" type game. CPM and RA3 pretty much "save" Q3.

 

[Sunner]

Quake 1 rocked, and still does IMO.
Quake2 is wayyy too slow for my taste, slow is good in games like CS, but in Quake style games its a bad thing.
Quake3 is in between, not as good as Quake1, but not as bad as Quake2.

 

[Witor]

Something about joining up with your teamates, dropping weapons for them, stocking em up, grabbing the megahealth room in q2dm1, and winning a UK q2 cup final recently....bloody loved it 3 years ago and still love it.

Q3 is great, but, something missing imo. Just wondering, Q3 seems to have a lot in common with Q1, gameplay and strategy-wise, I wonder if the next upcoming ID game (Doom3?) will have a lot in common with Q2...For starters both supposedly started/will start as single player oriented games....

 

[pen^2]

damn robo, i couldnt agree with you more... except you left out the godly supershotgun! single shotgun and blaster CAN kill too (good for showoffs )

 

[RoboTECH]

yeah, I hear ya.

Quake3 is quite fast-paced, much like Quake1. It has a few very very dominant weapons (rocket launcher, LG, RG), and several weapons that, well, you use only to fire off so that you can run and get a "real" weapon.

My beefs with Q3 vs. Q2

1) Weakass maps - really guys. dm6, dm7 and dm12 are the only *good* FFA maps. dm9 is pretty decent, and dm13 is the only worthwhile single player map in the entire release. 20+ maps, and most of them pretty much suck. blah.

2) Weapons - RL is way too easy to use (newbie weapon from hell), RG sucks (the pause is SOOOOOOO annoying), LG is awesome over LAN, but sucks over the net, PG is a spam weapon (very very annoying), MG is so weak compared to the chaingun. and c'mon guys, the BFG??? It sucks!! (no offense BFG10K!!) The only thing that is cool is the SSG. Tighter shot grouping than the Q2 SSG. and of course the gauntlet is cool. <g>

3) complete lack of nuances - in Q2, you had to KNOW the map to do well, even in FFA. You could run the armor/megahealth room in q2dm1 and grab the chaingun and go out for blood. In Q3, just be lucky enough to spawn near a rocket launcher, grab some armor and you're set. You can spam your way to several kills just by camping somewhere with either the PG or the RL. Blah.

4) Pure servers suck royally. No custom pk3s. the base sounds of Q3 are weak as hell, especially for the weapons. No custom skins, no custom weapon skins, no nothing. and Pure servers are the only way to steer clear of the bots (and that doesn't even work anymore!)


All told, RA2 just owns. RA3 is decent, but doesn't compare, IMHO. Q2 Lithium was cool, but the hook is worthless on most Q3 maps. The jump pads are ghey. Instagib isnt' even nearly as good in Q3 as it was in Q2. that stupid railgun pause is just ANNOYING! Some of the best fun out there is to play some classic Q1 maps in Q2. The Very Bad Place is just AWESOME in Q2, heh....

ah well, enough nostalgia. I miss Q2 far more than I'll ever miss Q3. but to each his/her own.

oh yeah, one thing I REALLY miss from Q2 is the hand grenades! Someone pisses you off from talkin' smack, just grab a few pills and toss 'em on the beyotch! totally embarass them, hehe....

and yeah, finishing off someone with the blaster was the ultimate in shame. Far far more shameful than taking a gauntlet to the gut, hehehe....

BTW, the 5500 has a significant advantage in Q2 over the GTS and the Radeon for the following reasons:

1) They're all fast enough. Let's be realistic, there is NO difference between 200 fps and 250 fps

2) the Radeon's 16-bit is quite poor and the GTS's 16-bit rendering is &quot;okay&quot;, whereas the 5500's is outstanding

3) This is a game that likes FSAA.

 

[pdqcarrera]

Robo U da Man eh>? eeeeeegads guys -- and I thought my ? was pretty straightforward and innocent like and whoa look what I started... who'da thunk...? No flaming tho which is nice (and oh so unQuake like ).

&quot;1) Weakass maps&quot;

Have you checked out http://dugdog.deadbbs.com/ ? While it's strength is also it's annoying weakness (downloading new maps too often) you won't find more or cooler maps anywhere (IMHO).
WoD Server Address is: 207.137.158.207:27910
I'm in SoCal and get good ping all the time (cable).

&quot;2) Weapons&quot;

Weapons of Destruction rule. While they help the poorer aiming folks like myself (who sometimes has to play mouseless) it's awesomely fun loud and obnoxious fraggin'...

&quot;4) Pure servers suck royally.&quot;
Yeppers. I can't live without customer skins. Too much fun.

&quot;to each his/her own.&quot;

But frustratin' when you know you're right. Right? LOL.

&quot;I REALLY miss from Q2 is the hand grenades!&quot;

What? No handgrenades?:Q That's reason enough alone. NUKES RULE!

&quot;BTW, the 5500 has a significant advantage in Q2 over the GTS and the Radeon for the following reasons: ... ISO9001 snipage...
2) the Radeon's 16-bit is quite poor and the GTS's 16-bit rendering is &quot;okay&quot;, whereas the 5500's is outstanding&quot;

Oh, noooooooo. Now you've gone and got me head all fuzzy again.:| So GTS isn't the best Q2 solution then>!? Damn, and I thought I had this all figured out. Lemme get this straight then, Q2 is my fave game and so for this 5500 is best, but for Unreal and perhaps new games coming down the pyke the GTS is da best solution... decisions, decisions, decisions...

 

[dfloyd]

Did he say Unreal Engine and GTS? EWWWWWWWWW!!!! LONG LIVE GLIDE!!!!

 

[Shaftatplanetquake]

I lived and breathed quake 2 for a year, OSPL2 with fast hook.. ahhhhhh still drool.. I owned all my friends, everyone in all the different clans that played on that server.. times have come to an end though, that server is gone and nobody plays ospl2 with hook anymore.. I don't see why, its 5 times smoother than lithium and a whole lot less laggy....

Man I miss that game, I was #1 on clq several times and I still have all my old buddies on icq.. but the server is gone cuz nobody would play there anymore..

I want my quake 2 back !!!

Oh yeah, I like quake 2 better on a voodoo3 than on a geforce card.. haven't tried q2 on this new radeon though so i dunno about that..

I bet the V5 owns quake 2 though

 

[BFG10K]

Ah, a good old fashioned Quake discussion! Alrighty!

Quake1, had fast gameplay but the weapons were severly unbalanced and most of the deathmatch maps sucked. The map situation didn't matter too much because a lot of the single player maps doubled up as great multiplayer maps (Castle Of The Damned (E1M2), House Of Chton (E1M7) etc).

Basically the rocket launcher was the weapon to use and the lightning gun was also useful at close range. My other gripe was the Pentagram Of Protection. That was far too unbalanaced and unfair and should have never made it into multitiplayer. If somebody picked it up there was nothing you could do until it wore off.

Quake2 had really good and interesting weapons but it had slower gameplay and the aiming the weapons like the shotgun and machine felt a little clutzy. I don't know, but to me it just felt like the whole game was crying out for more speed. I sort of felt a bit constricted if I started playing it straight after a Quake 1 deathmatch.

Quake3 is superb. The weapons are interesting and finely balanced as are the powerups. All of the maps are fast paced except for a few of the maps which don't have enough weapons or are too big and spread out so the action slows down. IMO the maps that suck are DM6, DM10, DM12, DM18 and Tourney 6 (Xaero's map). The rest of the maps are superb.

RoboTECH:

Weakass maps

On the contrary. Except for the five I mentioned above the rest of the maps are superb.

RG sucks (the pause is SOOOOOOO annoying)

In the hands of a skilled player the Railgun is arguably the best weapon in the game. Its awesome range and 100% accuracy really means you can't do anything to anyone who is at any half-decent distance and is consistently hitting their target. Don't believe me? Try playing the last map with Xaero on nightmare difficulty and see how far you get!

MG is so weak compared to the chaingun.

That's because it's only a starting weapon and you should be comparing it to a blaster, and it's more powerful than the blaster. Also it's only weak against armoured opponents. An unarmoured opponent will take a lot more damage from each bullet.

and c'mon guys, the BFG??? It sucks!! (no offense BFG10K!!)

Eh? That's the ultimate equaliser gun. That gun is like a powerup on its own. And just wait till you pick up Quad damage and use this weapon. One shot and the whole room dies! This gun is the king of destruction. No other gun comes close to it.

The only thing that is cool is the SSG. Tighter shot grouping than the Q2 SSG. and of course the gauntlet is cool.

In fact the Shotgun is the gun I like least (well OK, the Gauntlet but that doesn't count). It just doesn't seem to have the same grunt as the other weapons. The damage is too variable and the ROF is too low. Even if you miss a lot with the railgun your next shot will do 100 damage if it hits. Your next shotgun shot has no guaranteed damage given the random splatter and the movement of you and your opponent.

the Radeon's 16-bit is quite poor and the GTS's 16-bit rendering is &quot;okay&quot;, whereas the 5500's is outstanding

True but I thought Quake 2 could do 32 bit colour. Quake 1 can.

This is a game that likes FSAA.

I'll take your word for that. I know GLQuake would run quite well with FSAA x 4.

 

[PliotronX]

<< No other gun comes close to it. >>



Pshaw, the BFG in the Doom series ownz Q3 BFG I used to make maps for Doom, and was bored one night and made a room with about 666 () Cacaudemons just to see what would happen with a few BFG rounds.. man it cleared the room quicker than an overclocked Hoover

It's funny cause as hardware progresses, software gets a lot more taxing on systems. There's so much diversity in optimizations, and lazy programmers, that we'll never see a good 200FPS framerate on a really current game. Did Carmack say something like &quot;it'll take an NV20 at least to get 60fps in Doom 3&quot;? But the thing is, vid cards we consider kinda low-end these days, totally own yesterday's highend cards

 

[pen^2]

<< Did he say Unreal Engine and GTS? EWWWWWWWWW!!!! LONG LIVE GLIDE!!!! >>



i mean no offense, but please take your ewwwwwwws back before you realize what lokiGL (the best thing happened in UT) is..... do your homework before you post about something you have no clue about! well with a v3 3k you obviously havnt had a chance... just ask any gts owning frieend of yours to run UT in lokiGL, you are in for a surprise oh robo, i am aware on 32meg cards the lokiGL stutters a bit in the beginnin of maps... but i say improved visuals are well worth the tradeoffs.

BFG, altho i still think weapon balance in q3 sux, i do agree bfg10k is one awesome gun (the only gun i like in q3 in fact)
altho machinegun is your mere starting weapon, we are so inclined to imagine the raw pennetratin power of heavy slugs when we first hear the word 'machinegun'... too much q2 i guess heh
SSG in q2 IMHO is one of the best guns ever seen in any FPS on PC... obnoxiously loud, powerful yet with its pros and cons... how much damage does q3 shotgun do provided all the pellets hit? in q2, the SSG unloads 20 pellets per h shot and each pellet deals 6 damage... Robo, agreed with everything except above objections... as far as the best vid cards go, i dont doubt v5's FSAA bests all other competiotions', but its odd q2 wouldnt support 32bit rendering while HL based on q2 alpha engine does support it...

 

[Priit]

Well, you guys gonna kill me for this: I like Doom2 more than any Quake ! IMHO Quake1 was pretty nice game in some way (scary&amp;interesting single-player, but graphics kinda suck in software-rendered mode, too dark), but I still prefer Doom2 or Blood over it for network gaming (I got LAN @ home). Quake2 was one of the most boring games I have ever seen (specially in singel-player), Quake3 was pretty much same. If I want to play modern FPS, I prefer UT.

 

[pen^2]

actually, nothing beats plain old doom1/2 when it comes to speed and pace of the multiplayer gameplay... another thing is you cant jump or duck, so more refined reflexes and accuracy is required

 

[BFG10K]

BrotherMan:

BFG, altho i still think weapon balance in q3 sux, i do agree bfg10k is one awesome gun (the only gun i like in q3 in fact)

Are your talking to me or the gun? LOL!

how much damage does q3 shotgun do provided all the pellets hit?

There are 11 pellets and each does 10 points of damage, for a total of 110 damage.

but its odd q2 wouldnt support 32bit rendering while HL based on q2 alpha engine does support it

I think it does support 32 bit rendering because even GLQuake does. I can't test it, for obvious reasons.

 

[RoboTECH]

<< noooooooo. Now you've gone and got me head all fuzzy again. So GTS isn't the best Q2 solution then >>

all the cards are outstanding. The GTS will get the highest framerate, but all the cards fly. the 5500's 16-bit image quality is better than the GTS's, so it's a tossup.

<< OSPL2 with fast hook.. >>

fast hook? ew.....I liked a pretty fast hook. Too fast and it got kinda silly, where it was almost a transporter. I liked a moderately fast hook so that was fast enough so that you weren't a sitting duck in midair, but slow enough so that &quot;whiplashing&quot; was more efficient than just hooking. Now THAT was the bomb. Never played OSP with a hook tho, quite interesting concept!

<< I like quake 2 better on a voodoo3 than on a geforce card >>

now THAT is odd...

<< I bet the V5 owns quake 2 though >>

oh yes, oh yes it does.

<< Quake1, had fast gameplay but the weapons were severly unbalanced and most of the deathmatch maps sucked. >>

on the contrary, I think the original E#m# maps were lame, but the q1dm# maps just fuggin' owned (well, several of them anyway)

<< to me it just felt like the whole game was crying out for more speed. I sort of felt a bit constricted if I started playing it straight after a Quake 1 deathmatch. >>

understood and agreed. If you go from one to the other, the difference was startling. However, Q2 was far more cerebral. Without instant weapon switching, and with the footsteps and the fact that there were SEVERAL strong weapons, you had to make far more decisions other than &quot;where's the RL and shaft and RA?&quot; Also, the nuances are what made Q2. Ramp jumping, circle strafing, bunny hopping...etc. all added immensely to the game. It was &quot;slower&quot; only in relative speed. Play it against someone that owns and you'll see that it isn't quite so slow. I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend you go to xsreality and download a Q2 demo of lord vader and Shub Niggah playing on q2dm1. Incredible match. Also, play alittle lithium if you think q2 is too slow. hehehe....<whiplash>

<< The weapons are interesting and finely balanced as are the powerups. >>

the RL is far too powerful, IMHO. the plasma gun is a spam weapon. Blech.

<< IMO the maps that suck are DM6, DM10, DM12, DM18 and Tourney 6 (Xaero's map). The rest of the maps are superb. >>

BAH!!!! dm6 and dm12 are great maps for FFA or TDM or team insta! Dm6 is also a great OSP clan arena/RA3 type map.

<< In the hands of a skilled player the Railgun is arguably the best weapon in the game. >>

you're preachign to the choir here. ask my LAN buddies about me and the railgun. I just think q3's railgun lacks in comparison to Q2's, entirely because of the slight pause (10ns I think). I hate that. I want an instant frickin' slug, not a paused slug. BTW, lithium2 is the BEST way to learn the Q2 railgun. Pick those bungie-cord slinging sumb|tches out of the air with the rail, watch their gibs flop against the wall....AAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!

<< That's because it's only a starting weapon and you should be comparing it to a blaster >>

well, as a starting weapon, it is better, but it's main use is as a FINISHING weapon, IMHO. YOu nail someone with the railgun at a distance, and you bust out the chaingun and rip him to shreds. Except the MG sucks at that. In Q2, I didn't even bother to pick up the RL or any other weapons, for that matter. I just grabbed the rail and the chain. S'all I needed. <G>

<< (re: BFG) That's the ultimate equaliser gun >>

yes, it allows a clueless newbie to get a frag. Carmack admitted as such. q3dm12 is an AWESOME map if you play the team abuse version (the one without the BFG and with the armor where the quad is), but it sucks royally with the BFG. It becomes a BFG match. Blah.

<< In fact the Shotgun is the gun I like least (well OK, the Gauntlet but that doesn't count). It just doesn't seem to have the same grunt as the other weapons. >>

you're kidding, right? Dude, at point blank, it is the most powerful gun in the game in one shot. It does 125 points of damage or something. At midrange, it's a better finishing weapon than the MG, that's for sure. wanna piss someone off on q3dm17? Don't use the rail or RL. Just keep pounding at him with the SSG. Hehe....

<< True but I thought Quake 2 could do 32 bit colour. Quake 1 can >>

8-bit source art bro. Just because you can &quot;set&quot; 32-bit color doesn't mean you're getting anything out of it. That's why 32-bit doesn't incur a performance hit. There's no &quot;new colors&quot;. In other words, no dithering has to occur from 32 to 16 bit, because there IS no 32-bit.

<< SSG in q2 IMHO is one of the best guns ever seen in any FPS on PC >>

yep, I likes it right behind the q2 rail and chain. What owns is to grab it on q2dm3, get the quad, and get the strength rune (lithium). MUUAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!! I was being a total quad whore one time, and went the entire map without dying. I had like 180 frags or something insane like that. I'd fire the SSG in the middle courtyard, and take down like 6 or 7 peeps at once, heh....

<< its odd q2 wouldnt support 32bit rendering while HL based on q2 alpha engine does support it >>

difference between &quot;support&quot; and &quot;optimized&quot;. 1) Half Life is a GREATLY MODIFIED version of the engine. In Q2, you can enable 32-bit. It just won't look any different than 16-bit, that's all.

GODDAMN I LOVE THIS PLACE!!!!!

 

[BFG10K]

RoboTECH:

and with the footsteps

Quake 3 has footsteps (unless you walk, but you'd be an idiot to do that!).

you're preachign to the choir here. ask my LAN buddies about me and the railgun.

We should get together on a 100 BaseT LAN sometime. My friends tell me I almost have a bot-like accuracy when using the Railgun. And trust me their little piss-poor shotgun doesn't have a chance against a several Railgun slugs (unless they get real close, but they're usually dead before then).

the RL is far too powerful, IMHO.

The Rocket Launcher is powerful but basically Carmack took all the other weapons and made them just as powerful.

BAH!!!! dm6 and dm12 are great maps for FFA or TDM or team insta!

Sorry, I only play deathmatch. My philosophy is to shoot anything that moves and not worry about anything else.

Dude, at point blank, it is the most powerful gun in the game in one shot.

Yes, the keyword being point-blank. By the time you get close enough to me you'll have enough slugs in you to glow in the dark!

It does 125 points of damage or something.

110.

At midrange, it's a better finishing weapon than the MG, that's for sure.

Well its better than the gauntlet too, but what does that prove? At midrange it doesn't have a chance against a rocket launcher or a skilled Railgun player

GODDAMN I LOVE THIS PLACE!!!!

So do I!

 

[RoboTECH]

<< Quake 3 has footsteps (unless you walk, but you'd be an idiot to do that!). >>

actually, if your opponent has a health/weapon advantage, walking is advised, unless they're retarded and don't know the map well.

of course, you were saying you only do DM, I suppose that means no duel? That being the case, I'll agree. Strafe jump everywhere.

<< We should get together on a 100 BaseT LAN sometime >>

I will give Q3 kudos for being great over a LAN. The railgun's lag isn't so annoying, and the LG works MUCH MUCH MUCH better. Q3 is DEFINITELY much better on a LAN than on the 'net, and I'm on a goddamn DSL. BTW, you only need 10BaseT for Q3. I'ts low bandwidth.

<< The Rocket Launcher is powerful but basically Carmack took all the other weapons and made them just as powerful. >>

not counting the BFG (which is GHEY GHEY GHEY!!!), the RL is far and away more powerful. It does as much damage in one shot as the rail, the grenade launcher and the shotgun, but has splash damage and fires more rapidly than those other weapons. It's not as ridiculously imbalanced as Quake1, but the RL is still far too powerful in q3, whereas in Q2, I'd only rank the RL 2nd or 3rd best weapon (definitely behind rail, behind chaingun, and about even with SSG in certain situations)

<< Yes, the keyword being point-blank. By the time you get close enough to me you'll have enough slugs in you to glow in the dark! >>

hehehe....remember that &quot;walking&quot; thing? No footsteps = no sound.

<< At midrange it doesn't have a chance against a rocket launcher or a skilled Railgun player >>

depends. In an open area where you have an altitude advantage, the SSG is better than the rail. Also remember, if I have a lot of armor, and you don't, I don't have a problem getting up close and personal with you and your rocket launcher. Sure, you'll nail me witha rocket, but you'll catch splash, as well as shrapnel. hehe...

GODDAMN I LOVE QUAKE!!!!!!