Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

[gdansk]

https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/21/24158603/qualcomm-windows-snapdragon-dev-kit-x-elite

This is fricking awesome. Release it in transparent box with LPCAMM module as well.

Speaking of adapters, what you won’t find in Qualcomm’s images here is the power brick: it’s got an external 180W AC adapter.

lol good thing they're selling it as a devkit otherwise that'd be funny

 

[trivik12]

if 2nd gen X Elite is on N3P it will have sizable bump in performance/efficiency from 1st gen. We are in for exciting time period.

 

[Nothingness]

The previous dev kit with Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 came with a 80W power supply while the SoC was supposed to be <10W. So I wouldn't read too much into that 180W (though obviously the highest range Snapdragon Elite X will gobble power).

 

[gdansk]

The previous dev kit with Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 came with a 80W power supply while the SoC was supposed to be <10W. So I wouldn't read too much into that 180W (though obviously the highest range Snapdragon Elite X will gobble power).

Article also said 80W power limit for the SOC.
Make a nice small device, ruin it with a power brick. Many many such cases. At least Apple gets it right with the Mac Mini and Apple TV.

 

[TitanicFreak]

https://www.qualcomm.com/content/da...pdragon-Dev-Kit-for-Windows-Product-Brief.pdf

The product brief reveals this is running a SKU that isn't found in the laptops. The X1E-00-1DE which does 4.3ghz ST instead of the peak 4.2ghz found in the laptops. A very small but appreciable difference.

 

[Thibsie]

https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/21/24158603/qualcomm-windows-snapdragon-dev-kit-x-elite

This is fricking awesome. Release it in transparent box with LPCAMM module as well.

At that price ?
No thanks....

 

[adroc_thurston]

At that price ?
No thanks....

As far as higher-end-ish NUCs go it's fine.
It's a meme volumes devkit so price markups are expected.

 

[Doug S]

Even the surface tablet had a fan. The PDF that was going around showed the new laptop having the same noise level as some Intel equipped device when underload. Well I don't know why I got my hopes up I thought ARM would save me from fan noise but it seems only Apple can do that. Shame.

Ewwww.

If I was one of Microsoft's designers of that thing I'd be hanging my head in shame after seeing the M4 iPad Pro.

 

[StinkyPinky]

THe price isn't bad at all. Three 4K display support, 80W TDP so max performance possible, and 32GB of ram. That's quite reasonable for $900.

 

[SpudLobby]

Ewwww.

If I was one of Microsoft's designers of that thing I'd be hanging my head in shame after seeing the M4 iPad Pro.

Yeah lol the Surface Pro does look terrible.

 

[poke01]

Fans are just extra performance and less heat being felt by the user. So it's a good thing to have.

Although I understand some are miffed that Apple has a fanless solution since 2020 while Windows camp is mia.

Some people prefer absolute silence and there is no maintenance required being fanless.

That’s not the point, all those OEMs and not one considered to make an X Elite fanless. It’s not that they don’t want to but they can’t.

It’s not meant for fanless designs and by clocking low to counter the heat it would not reached marketing expectations.

The base M chip is only fanless in two devices. The iPad and MacBook Air. It’s a very powerful tablet chip. The X Elite is not made for tablets without 1t loss.

 

[adroc_thurston]

The X Elite is not made for tablets without 1t loss.

Yeah it's a pretty standard laptop SoC.

 

[FlameTail]

The flame returns...

Some people prefer absolute silence and there is no maintenance required being fanless.

That’s not the point, all those OEMs and not one considered to make an X Elite fanless. It’s not that they don’t want to but they can’t.

It’s not meant for fanless designs and by clocking low to counter the heat it would not reached marketing expectations.

I wonder if the rumoured Purwa part would be suitable for fanless designs?

I watched the MS Event keynote. The launch of Snapdragon X Elite/X Plus was more spectacular than I expected. New Prism emulator for WoA. 20% better battery life than M3 Macbook Air claim. So many designs from all major OEMs.

But I am more interested in the road ahead.

Gerard Williams is set to do a talk at Hot Chips 2024 (in August). Looking forward to that.

This slide was leaked recently:

So X ELITE G2 will be coming sometime in mid 2025.

IMHO Oryon V2 or Pegasus (whatever the core ends up being called) should be a major redesign like Zen3 or Zen5. Simply being an evolution of Phoenix/Oryon V1 won't suffice. Qualcomm will need a ~50% performance uplift to stay competitive with M5/Zen6. They are already lagging behind the M4's ST by 30%, and will be at a similar disadvantage vs Strix/Zen5.


They have also have room to make improvements to power by a clock regression. If you look at this graph, the power has increased by roughly 33% for that final 10% frequency:

Hopefully, Snapdragon X2/Oryon V2 generation will be good. Addition of E-cores, 3nm node, 2nd gen Oryon P-core, potential support for ARMv9/SVE/SME/SSVE and new Adreno 8xx GPU architecture.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I wonder if the rumoured Purwa part would be suitable for fanless designs?

it's just hamoa for the poors.

So X ELITE G2 will be coming sometime in mid 2025.

Glymur is H1'26 on shelves.

should be a major redesign like Zen3 or Zen5

It is very Zen3, indeed.

Addition of E-cores

dawg they do not have the manpower to run a separate core lineage.

 

[poke01]

Glymur is H1'26 on shelves.

no delays right>

 

[FlameTail]

Glymur is H1'26 on shelves.

I am skeptical about your info. You have previously claimed X Elite devices won't be available until sometime in 2024H2, which is clearly not the case, considering the recent MS Build announcements. Also weren't you wrong about the April Zen 5 release?

dawg they do not have the manpower to run a separate core lineage.

Idk about that. If they don't have it, then start hiring?

An E-core is essential for the markets Qualcomm is competing in. Smartphones, Wearables and Laptops.

I have heard rumours that the Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 utilises 2P+6E (Phoenix-L + Phoenix-M) setup. The Phoenix-M is apparently the dame uarch as Phoenix-L, but with lower clock speeds and less cache, in a different low-plower cluster. It's something akin to Zen4 -> Zen4C.

 

[adroc_thurston]

You have previously claimed X Elite devices won't be available until sometime in 2024H2

H2 starts july so yea.

Also weren't you wrong about the April Zen 5 release?

That was the launch.

If they don't have it, then start hiring?

Very limited talent pool in this industry.
Where are you gonna poach from?

It's something akin to Zen4 -> Zen4C.

It's something akin to SD820/821.
QC already did that.

 

[Nothingness]

Very limited talent pool in this industry.
Where are you gonna poach from?

Oh yes, recruiting has been a pain for years now. We recruit graduates, but it takes years for them to get enough experience to become fully productive (for those who can really get good...). A long and uncertain process for sure.

 

[FlameTail]

H2 starts july so yea.

But the devices will be on store shelves by June 18th, which is technically 2024H1.

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

So what was the entire point in all this if they can't make fanless devices with comparable performance to intel/amd?
"Just" battery life?

But, why did they constantly keep comparing it to Air? That seems a**holish now, I was sure based on that and new designs being thinner at least some of them would be fanless.

Might as well get a Zen4 on sale now.

 

[adroc_thurston]

So what was the entire point in all this if they can't make fanless devices with comparable performance to intel/amd?

The point was to release this in 2023 and claim major perf/BL wins over x86 camp. Fanless wasn't the goal for eons.

But, why did they constantly keep comparing it to Air?

Same pricing tier and segment.

Might as well get a Zen4 on sale now.

nope.

 

[FlameTail]

So what was the entire point in all this if they can't make fanless devices with comparable performance to intel/amd?
"Just" battery life?

That is exactly one of the things I hope X Elite G2 will fix. X Elite G1 is lacking in some aspects, that will have to be polished in the next generation.

• Power consumption
• GPU drivers
• Ray tracing, Mesh shading
• GPU Compute performance
• Lack of E-cores
• ARMv9 support (and SVE/SME/SSVE)

 

[FlameTail]

Microsoft made an incredible claim that the Surface Laptop 7 has 20% better battery life than the Macbook Air M3. That's unbelievable, becuase they both have similar sized batteries, but Apple has the virtue of vertical integration and we know the M3 chip is more power efficient than X Elite.

3Rd party reviews can't come soon enough.

 

[adroc_thurston]

3Rd party reviews can't come soon enough.

the shrout whitepaper was 3rd party, technically.

 

[FlameTail]

the shrout whitepaper was 3rd party, technically.

It was commissioned by Microsoft.

So...