Question for Christians

[1967mustangman]

Amen Burn Amen!

 

[RossGr]

I find this thread to be a very distrubing insite inside the minds of fundamentalist. Scary people.

 

[PCResources]

<< I find this thread to be a very distrubing insite inside the minds of fundamentalist. Scary people. >>



People who will tell you that you are right when you are right and wrong when they think so...

Well god can pass no judgement on me because i do not require a divine force to make decisions for myself...

Indeed, the people who act as if they were instructed by god (fundamentalists) are not only scary, they are also dangerous...

Patrick

 

[ThisIsMatt]

<<

<< but that doesn't mean that those traits are exclusive to those who believe in Jesus Christ. >>



No kidding... like you christians have the right to make that judgement...

You all make me very sick, sure your comment was supposed to be &quot;NICE&quot; but guess what, it was NOT, it just stated that even though &quot;you are not as great as i am&quot; you can still be a good person...

Religion is just an excuse for your sorry life, you don't like it, but if you quit before your time then you are surely going to hell... >>

You my friend, are an idiot.

<< Well god can pass no judgement on me because i do not require a divine force to make decisions for myself... >>

Well aren't we arrogant &amp; self-righteous. You already stated that you don't believe in God, so why do you continue. Now you're saying more or less, &quot;if there is a god&quot;...

 

[GoWaldo]

We are saved by God's grace, through faith alone. Even our faith is a gift. So, through good works or a good life we gain nothing. For &quot;even our good works are like filthy rags.&quot; Not to say we shouldn't attempt to love each other, but it in no way saves us.

 

[Burn]

PCResources - I in no way meant to offend you personally, just to point out what I believe (from the bible) is the truth.

 

[Burn]

<< I find this thread to be a very distrubing insite inside the minds of fundamentalist. Scary people. >>



I am curious, what do you find to be scary?

I know what I find to be scary. I think who say they believe the bible, but then turn around and throw portions of the bible out because those parts are old-fashioned or something are scary. I believe it is hypocritical to &quot;believe&quot; in the bible, but only to believe parts of it. That is why I am a fundamentalist.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Burn, I don't think it's worth arguing with him. He's too much in &quot;defensive/flame&quot; mode...making up stuff that isn't there...

 

[Burn]

<<

<< Those who are not able to accept Christ because of their mental abilities >>



does that include the emotionally impaired like psychopats that kill people but only because they are lacking in the mind, something called compassion...

Patrick >>



Well, that is a good question, and I don't really know the answer. Humanly speaking we often let these people off because they were &quot;insane&quot;, but I don't know how God judges. If the person rejects Christ they will go to hell, that I know. And if they truly accept Christ as their savior, whoever they may be, they are bound for heaven, that I know as well. But where the &quot;psychopats&quot; you speak of fall, I don't know.

 

[PCResources]

Thisismatt, i am going to ignore you as you obviously do not have a clue as to what i am talking about...





<< We are saved by God's grace, through faith alone. Even our faith is a gift. So, through good works or a good life we gain nothing. For &quot;even our good works are like filthy rags.&quot; Not to say we shouldn't attempt to love each other, but it in no way saves us >>



Well, what can i say except GO GoWaldo!



<< PCResources - I in no way meant to offend you personally, just to point out what I believe (from the bible) is the truth. >>



Well, you know, what right do you have to judge me? Just because it says so in a book filled with mystical fairy tales (this is my opinion, and i am not denying you yours)...

But then again, i should show you the same tolerance that you have shown me (i was a jerk, and i will admit it)... So your apology is accepted...One thing though, don't blame your judgements on the bible, you are a man, therefore you make your own judgements...




<< I am curious, what do you find to be scary? >>



I know this question was not directed towards me, but i will answer it anyhow as i do have an answer for it.

Fundamentalism means that you can never change anything of your own free will, that means that you can do just about whatever you want to and if god does not want you doing it, he will stop you... (ok, an oversimplification, but you know what i am saying)...

I am curious, how do you carry on with your life when you have these beliefs?

Patrick

 

[Ameesh]

this is sick that all these people agree with burn. really quite disgusting.

 

[PCResources]

<< As I said I am a fundamentalist, and I don't believe the bible speaks of salvation by repentance. However, if someone could go their whole life and then sincerely put their faith in Jesus Christ before they die; yes they would be saved and go to heaven. It does happen, many people do see the fault of their ways before they die >>



Please correct me if i am wrong, but that might mean that Hitler, Stalin and other mass murderers are in heaven as they might have realized that what they did was wrong in their moment of death?

Patrick

 

[notfred]

Per sonally I think that the &quot;you can't understand it, you just have to have faith&quot; philosophy is a copout.

It's like saying &quot;Well, I really don't think this makes all that much sense, but hell, if it's right I can jsut take it on faith, and I get a guaranteed get-out-of-hell-free-card&quot;

It perpetuates ignorance, discourages objective philosophical and scientific analysis, and basically uses fear as as it's main driving force.

 

[Burn]

<< Fundamentalism means that you can never change anything of your own free will, that means that you can do just about whatever you want to and if god does not want you doing it, he will stop you... (ok, an oversimplification, but you know what i am saying)... >>



I think I understand what you are saying. To reply I will just say that as a fundamentalist I believe everything in the bible. That does not mean that I am perfect, and live up to Christ example in the bible, it just means that I try my best (with the strength God gives me) to obey what he sets forth and live the life he wants me to.



<< I am curious, how do you carry on with your life when you have these beliefs? >>



I carry on because I know that because Christ died for my sins, and because I believe in him; that God's grace applies to me. I have to live life on this earth for 80 years maybe, but then I get to spend eternity with God.

 

[Burn]

<< Per sonally I think that the &quot;you can't understand it, you just have to have faith&quot; philosophy is a copout.

It's like saying &quot;Well, I really don't think this makes all that much sense, but hell, if it's right I can jsut take it on faith, and I get a guaranteed get-out-of-hell-free-card&quot;

It perpetuates ignorance, discourages objective philosophical and scientific analysis, and basically uses fear as as it's main driving force. >>



I understand what you are saying, but as you can guess I don't feel that way.

If I didn't believe in God's creation, I guess I would believe in evolution. But that doesn't mean I would entirely understand how we could get from a cloud of gas to this complex world we have now. I would just believe that it happened. Believing without seeing is faith. It doesn't mean that it is not true, it just can mean that I (my simple mind) can't understand.

 

[notfred]

<< If I didn't believe in God's creation, I guess I would believe in evolution. But that doesn't mean I would entirely understand how we could get from a cloud of gas to this complex world we have now. I would just believe that it happened. Believing without seeing is faith. It doesn't mean that it is not true, it just can mean that I (my simple mind) can't understand. >>



Personally, I havent discounted either a form of creation or evolution (or even creation by evolution) as a possible source of the creation of the world. I think it's even possible that the universe has jsut always been here, the same way christians beleive that thier god has always been there.

I do, of course believe in the existance of the world, but I have no concrete beleifs on how it came to be.

Ironically though, this topic (evolution vs. creation) is the most common debate in these christian vs. non-christian arguments, when it really has very little to do with the christian faith. The fundemental principle of the christian religion is that jesus died to save the world, not that god created the world in 6 days.

I don't want to sound like I'm coming off as attacking your religion, because I really dont believe that I'm inherently more right than anyone. The only time I'll really argue, is when I think someone else's perspective is based on ignorance or blind acceptance. I get into these debates over christianity once in a while, and they usually end with me asking &quot;why?&quot; and the other person saying &quot;I can't tell you why, you jsut have to beleive&quot; and I think you can see why I wouldn't consider that a valid response.

 

[Burn]

<< The fundemental principle of the christian religion is that jesus died to save the world, not that god created the world in 6 days. >>



I don't want to bring creation in as a topic of debate, it just was the first example that came into my head. Oops. I feel exactly the same way you do about that, arguing over it doesn't affect salvation. It does affect me as a fundamentalist, but it doesn't affect going to heaven which was the topic of the thread.

 

[ThisIsMatt]

PCResources...again, I'll say you're an idiot. No where did Burn judge you, yet you get all defensive and act like a complete jackass. Burn should not be apologizing for anything, you're the one who blew up after a comment you incorrectly interpreted. Then you go on to insult him with flames (&quot;sorry life&quot. Then you go on to say, in so many words, &quot;God cannot judge me because I do not believe in God.&quot; DUH. Either there is a god, and he's gonna judge you, or there isn't a god &amp; judgement is null.

Once again, Burn didn't judge you. Why did I act the way I did? Because I'm tired of hearing people say that when they feel threatened. Heck, I could say right now that you're going to hell, and that still wouldn't be judging you, that would be my God judging you

<< (i was a jerk, and i will admit it)... So your apology is accepted...One thing though, don't blame your judgements on the bible, you are a man, therefore you make your own judgements >>

Nice of you...

 

[PCResources]

<< I think I understand what you are saying. To reply I will just say that as a fundamentalist I believe everything in the bible. That does not mean that I am perfect, and live up to Christ example in the bible, it just means that I try my best (with the strength God gives me) to obey what he sets forth and live the life he wants me to. >>



I am not used to this, you are not forcing your beliefs on me and that makes me kind of confused... Actually, you have responded in a very unusual way... For this i thank you.

But the question still remains (out of curiousity), does that mean that you cannot change what is going to happen, that Jesus Christ has already determined your faith and that there is nothing you can do about it? Is that what you believe?

Patrick

 

[Ameesh]

basically do what jesus says or you're fvcked.

have you ever thought about the question that when christanity started it was a tool for the government or ambitious people to herd the ignorant masses?

 

[PCResources]

<< PCResources...again >>



And again and again and again...

Burn is doing just fine without your defense... so just leave the discussion alone...

Patrick

 

[ThisIsMatt]

<< But the question still remains (out of curiousity), does that mean that you cannot change what is going to happen, that Jesus Christ has already determined your faith and that there is nothing you can do about it? Is that what you believe? >>



&quot;Before I formed you in the womb I knew you...&quot; Jerimiah 1:5

 

[ThisIsMatt]

<<

<< PCResources...again >>



And again and again and again...

Burn is doing just fine without your defense... so just leave the discussion alone...

Patrick >>

You're right, but that doesn't change anything. Glad you see it my way

 

[Burn]

<< But the question still remains (out of curiousity), does that mean that you cannot change what is going to happen, that Jesus Christ has already determined your faith and that there is nothing you can do about it? Is that what you believe? >>



There is some debate among fundamentalists about events being predestined, and that is an area I am slightly confused in. But this I do believe, that the bible says we do have a free will and it is up to us how we live our life. We are not controlled by God. We can however obey his word (the bible) and live the way he wants us to. When I believed in God it was my choice, when I obey him it is my choice, and when I sin and disobey it is my choice. Does that answer your question? I feel I might be going at your question from the wrong angle.

 

[Burn]

<< basically do what jesus says or you're fvcked. >>


Pretty much, if you don't believe in him the bible says you will go to hell.



<< have you ever thought about the question that when christanity started it was a tool for the government or ambitious people to herd the ignorant masses? >>



There are many religions that may be political tools, and Christianity has been used as a political tool, but Christianity wasn't started as one. &quot;Christians&quot; was a name the non-believers gave to those who believe in Jesus Christ.