Question for Christians

[MrPALCO]

<< I had a very highly educated Jesuit Priest as a teacher for two years. >>



Will education get you into Heaven?

 

[Gk0r]

God has many names and many faces, how can one understand the true nature of something like that? Is Budda &quot;worse&quot; then other &quot;gods&quot;? Is there is only &quot;One&quot; proper god? Doubt that...
Noone knows all the names and all the faces of God, and here to help us comes faith and trust in the one we believe in.
All the good doings come from God
God is like the engine in a car, it moves you in a RIGHT way
Man basicly not good, and can not be good, unless restricterd by someone, sometimes God, sometimes by society (where key people have a &quot;king in their heads&quot

 

[RossGr]

<< Man basicly not good, and can not be good, unless restricterd by someone, sometimes God, sometimes by society (where key people have a &quot;king in their heads&quot >>



But neither is man intrinsicly bad. Man is Man... neutral, society has created the concepts of good and bad. God is not necessary to be &quot;good&quot; that is pablum probagated by the christian church. Remember you are a member of the flock. So in a language all christains should understand. Baaaaaaaaah

 

[joohang]

There is one thing I've always wanted to research.

So this one is for fundamentalists (like Burn):

How can you be sure that the Bible is the absolute truth?

Why I doubt the Bible:

- It was not originally in English .. and language has limitations so some sections may be translated in a misleading way.
- Are we SURE that it has never been altered throughout history?
- It was, after all, written by men, correct? (like it didn't appear on Earth out of nowhere one day) How can you be sure that the teachings of the Bible are the absolute truth?



For me, personally, it is not the religion that I cannot accept, but it is the wrong doings of religious people throughout history that I cannot accept. The only religion I could accept so far was fundamental Taoist teachings. I read the Tao Te Ching and believed in my interpretation of it: which is to live life by following the laws of nature. I believe that the only supernatural force in the world is the nature itself. Men have enough trouble understanding nature, let alone anything supernatural.

My 2¢.

 

[dcane2000]

I'm a Catholic, not a very devoted one but Catholic none the less, and there is one thing that I can't seem to accept is this acceptance of Jesus Christ. If you were born in Africa back before missionaries were all over the place and were a decent, moral, ethical and benevolent person how could god punish you for that? What is he going to say when you die? &quot;Sorry Buju, you're screwed!!&quot; NO WAY!! Then again, that's just my belief really. Although George Carlin says something intriguing about this: if you don't do just as he says he will send you to a place full death, burning, eternal anguish and misery but.... He Loves You!!. Makes you think, at least it did me.

 

[chainbolt]

this is very private

 

[MrPALCO]

<< How can you be sure that the Bible is the absolute truth? >>



You must be able to access the Spirit realm. If you will not, you cannot comprehend the words of God or God.

 

[Burn]

<< Why is the fundamentlist scary to me. Because they threaten my way of life and indeed potentally my life. I do not but a bit of faith in in your concept of god as you represent it. It is people of your ilk who burnt witchs at the stake 4 centruies ago, same bible so by your words you must believe the same now. That is scary. You must also be comfortable with your kinship with the grand inquisitor, same bible. That is scary. >>



I don't see how I threaten your way of life. As for the witch burning thing, there are many misguided people in this world and that doesn't mean that people who claim to be Christians cannot be wrong and act wrong. The difference between me and the grand inquisitor is that I believe the whole bible, everything; that is something he didn't.



<< Your, all you need to do is believe statement is scary, As this frees you of any responsibilty of your actions. You seem to have seperated yourself from the teaching of christ. I simply do not understand how you can throw out the teachings of christ and still call yourself christians. The teachings of christ are fundamental to anyone who dares to call himself a chistian if you do not put them first you are not a christian. I perfer to think of your kind as Paulist, leaving the term Christian for those who follow the teachings of Christ, the man, the teacher. >>



This only free you from going to hell, it doesn't free you from earthly responsibilty, I never said or meant to imply that. I don't see where I seperated myself from the teachings of Christ. I don't see where I through out his teachings. It is from Christ words in the bible I get the doctrine of salvation.



<< I had a very highly educated Jesuit Priest as a teacher for two years. He NEVER said that believing in Jesus was the only way to Heaven. You can all go on praising your lord jesus christ, and I will live my life to the fullest. Life is NOT about praising some superior being; it is about being the best person you can be and being a positive influence in the world. I will have no fear when my time comes, because I will know that I lived my life the way I wanted and no all-powerful being will strike me down for not believing in one particular version of an ancient people's beliefs. >>



It doesn't matter in eternity what your priest said, it is what the bible (God's Word) says. The bible says that you have to believe in Jesus Christ, period. That is what I believe.



<< I was wondering, if people aren't really capable of understanding God, how were people able to write the Bible, and how can its accuracy be trusted? >>



Because the Holy Spirit (God) &quot;helped&quot; with the men who wrote the bible. &quot;All scripture is given by inspiration of God.&quot;



<< God has many names and many faces, how can one understand the true nature of something like that? Is Budda &quot;worse&quot; then other &quot;gods&quot;? Is there is only &quot;One&quot; proper god? Doubt that... >>



The bible says there is only one way to get into heaven, and I accept that as truth.



<< But neither is man intrinsicly bad. Man is Man... neutral, society has created the concepts of good and bad. God is not necessary to be &quot;good&quot; that is pablum probagated by the christian church. Remember you are a member of the flock. So in a language all christains should understand. Baaaaaaaaah >>



Man has a sin nature, he is evil. He can be &quot;good&quot; on his own, but it is only with Jesus Christ that he is &quot;good&quot; enough to get into heaven.



<< How can you be sure that the Bible is the absolute truth? >>



There are translation errors in the english bible, yes, but they do not affect the doctrine of salvation. They are the things which cause Christians who have to much time on their hands to quible about. The bible was written by men for thousands of years through God's inspiration. And that I believe.

 

[bluemax]

Once again, the ignorant are rampant. :|
Bashing the Bible when you don't have a clue what it's about. Defending the Bible with seldom a clue of what's in it. *sigh*

My offer for free bible study guides is still open. People have questions, people want answers, but they'd rather get advice from people who don't have a clue. I'm even reluctant to &quot;provide the answers&quot; because my study is still in early stages.
The Bible DOES answer this question very specifically. The things talked about in the Bible are VERY applicable to today, and not just the distant past. (Alcohol is still around, right? Immoral sex is still around, right?)

I still find it funny that someone, having been asked to express their view, is suddenly &quot;cramming it down your throat&quot; by merely saying something. If anything, the bad-attitude atheist doing all the yelling is cramming their disbelief views wherever possible. :| How ironic.
And it's the Christians that get all the flak, get banned from schools and badmouthed on a regular basis. It was only 10 - 30 years ago, to be a good Christian was a GOOD thing. Nowdays, if you admit to being a Christian publically you get ostractized for it. Methinks the separation of good and evil is beginning to happen as we speak.
Read Revealation regarding this matter. There will be a time, before the end, when God's prescence is removed from those who don't believe and completely surrounds those that do. Those of you who don't believe Love, Charity, Kindness, Friendliess, and other good things don't come from God? See what'll happen when said people have God's presence completely removed from them. It can and has happened in the past - the unpardonable sin, which is grieving the Holy Spirit (by turning Jesus down completely and absolutely, repeatedly) - these are the criminal psychopaths you referred to earlier, with no remorse, no regret and seemingly no emotion to the subject.

I'll say it again, I'll send out all the study material you want - just ask for it.
If you ARE a Christian and would like to study the Bible for yourself and not just accept whatever the &quot;church&quot; teaches, it's an excellent resource.
If you're NOT a Christian and curios as to what the heck it's all about, it's superb.
If you're completely against Christianity and would like to know why, still sign up - you may at least give yourselves some reasons as to why you hate Christianity so much.
In all cases you may be surprised about many things we assume to be true but are not. Biblically and historically.

Just say the word, I'll send it out to you. I really don't like people speaking in ignorance - here's your chance to gather all the information you could ever ask for. Not all in one shipment of course. Just the study guides and maybe a book or two to start.

 

[bluemax]

Oh, and one final thought since it just came to me from the previous-to-mine post.

Those who wonder about going to heaven vs. the need to believe.... I'll put this in simple terms.

Sin is not allowed in heaven. Period.
If we sin so much as once, we don't deserve to go there.
We've all sinned at least once. End of story.
Our sins can only be forgiven by one way. Jesus must forgive them.
Deny Jesus, you can't have your sins forgiven, you don't go to heaven.

That's the critical bit. As much as I'd like to tell the whole thing, I'm sure there's a few people on here who would simply mock it. I can tell anyone who's interested, but the study guides do a far better job than I could. They also include historical and archeology findings you may find interesting.

 

[obiwaynekenobi]

my belief is that if a man tries hard, and does his best to get a decent human being. (meaning no intent N harm etc.) does his best to help others etc. if he has not found a christian belief that he can 100% soak his faith in that when he dies he will be given an oppertunity to accpet god as god, (and i don't know about you if I died and meet god I'd believe him. then you won't be damned. Just because some people weren't given the oppertunity to have a accept a relgion, thaty shouldn't be condemed. However we also believe those people who will go to hell pretty much going to be the one's that are murders. (timothy Mcviegh,charles Manson etc..) becuase they have taken the life of one of gods childern.

 

[Optimus]

An answer to the original question:

I, and everyone else in this thread and the world, have no idea.

No one can judge whether another person is going to heaven, hell, or whatever as we cannot possibly know everyhting about that person, thier heart, circumstances, etc.



(Saints are a different story, and do not involve judgement of a person in this sense - Ask me if anyone has a Q about that.)

 

[ThisIsMatt]

<< (Saints are a different story, and do not involve judgement of a person in this sense - Ask me if anyone has a Q about that.) >>

What do you mean, that they are above &quot;ordinary&quot; people when it comes to judgement? I believe everyone is judged by the same standards, and that includes the Pope, saints, etc etc. <disclaimer>All IMO of course</disclaimer>

 

[Stark]

Jesus Answers:

John 10:1-18
1 &quot;I assure you, anyone who sneaks over the wall of a sheepfold, rather than going through the gate, must surely be a thief and a robber!
2 For a shepherd enters through the gate.
3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep hear his voice and come to him. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
4 After he has gathered his own flock, he walks ahead of them, and they follow him because they recognize his voice.
5 They won't follow a stranger; they will run from him because they don't recognize his voice.&quot;
6 Those who heard Jesus use this illustration didn't understand what he meant,
7 so he explained it to them. &quot;I assure you, I am the gate for the sheep,&quot; he said.
8 &quot;All others who came before me were thieves and robbers. But the true sheep did not listen to them.
9 Yes, I am the gate. Those who come in through me will be saved. Wherever they go, they will find green pastures.
10 The thief's purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give life in all its fullness.
11 &quot;I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
12 A hired hand will run when he sees a wolf coming. He will leave the sheep because they aren't his and he isn't their shepherd. And so the wolf attacks them and scatters the flock.
13 The hired hand runs away because he is merely hired and has no real concern for the sheep.
14 &quot;I am the good shepherd; I know my own sheep, and they know me,
15 just as my Father knows me and I know the Father. And I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice; and there will be one flock with one shepherd.
17 &quot;The Father loves me because I lay down my life that I may have it back again.
18 No one can take my life from me. I lay down my life voluntarily. For I have the right to lay it down when I want to and also the power to take it again. For my Father has given me this command.&quot;

Here come the &quot;mindless sheep&quot; flames.
Baaaaaah.

 

[Optimus]

ThisisMatt: No, no - I mean that when a saint is canonized, it isn't just that the Church &quot;judges&quot; them and decides they went to Heaven. They do have to have qualified (been good people at least in the end), but other than in cases of martyrdom, the nominees for sainthood basically prove they are in heaven through miracles and other pre-requisites.

I'm just saying that yes, we say saints are in heaven, but we don't say that because the Church &quot;judged&quot; them.

And yes, everyone is judged the exact same way - on their own heart alone.

 

[Stark]

An answer to the original question:

Matthew 18:1-6
1 About that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, &quot;Which of us is greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven?&quot;
2 Jesus called a small child over to him and put the child among them.
3 Then he said, &quot;I assure you, unless you turn from your sins and become as little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.
4 Therefore, anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.
5 And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf is welcoming me.
6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who trusts in me to lose faith, it would be better for that person to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around the neck.


Faith isn't about opening up your mind. It's about accepting certain things your mind can never fully comprehend.

 

[MDesigner]

It comes down to this, folks:

Christianity is just a belief system. Call it a philosophy if you want. Either way, there's NO way they can prove God exists in the parameters they describe. There's no way they can prove Jesus was ressurrected (which I find hard to believe, by the way, as he was merely a man from Nazareth, a town southeast of Haifa, Israel). And a note to Christians: just because these events are described in detail in the Bible DOES NOT MEAN IT REALLY HAPPENED. Remember, the Bible is merely a book of the teachings of Christ. Teachings. Not true events. For the most part, the Bible is a set of moral code.

And that's the case with many scriptures from other religions as well. They're part fact, part fiction. In the Buddhist scriptures, when Buddha is born, he is said to've been able to walk immediately after birth, and lotus sprung up in his footsteps. Did this really happen? I highly doubt it.

With any of these scriptures, throw away the fiction, and you're left with a set of what the author(s) believe to be right and moral. Or ways to lead a good, wholesome life.

This is why I prefer Taoism. There are no mystical events, really, and no warnings against temptation &amp; lust (Christianity, Buddhism). Just a bunch of stories of normal people in their every-day lives. Well.. on second thought, there are some instances of talking animals and birds with wingspans of several thousand miles wide. But it's so far out there, it's not likely to be misinterpreted.

Just my opinions. Have a nice day.

 

[ggavinmoss]

It amazes me that something as impresice as language is such a factor here. &quot;Different interpretations of the Bible?&quot; Anything that comes from man's hand is inherently altered. Add the copies of copies of translations of copies of translations that have been made of the Bible and the point of following the Bible to the letter is really lost on me.

-geoff

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Optimus - oic

 

[Burn]

<< And a note to Christians: just because these events are described in detail in the Bible DOES NOT MEAN IT REALLY HAPPENED. >>



Well I believe it does, that is why I am called a fundamentalist. It means I believe everything in the bible to be true.

 

[alpineranger]

For those attempting to reconcile God's love with the fact that he allows people to go to hell:

God is perfect. Perfectly just, perfectly holy.
Sin is opposed to God's nature. There will never be sin in heaven.
Man, through the temptation of Satan in the Garden of Eden, sinned. We, as decendants of Adam and Eve, have inherited that legacy.
Thus, we are unworthy of being in God's presence, and deserving of his just wrath, should all be going to hell.
Through God's love and grace, he sent his son (Jesus Christ), to die for our sins. If we believe that he did this for us, then we are saved.

Sure, you can argue against any of these points, but in the end, it all comes down to whether or not you truly believe.

 

[bluemax]

There would have to be a GROSS misinterpretation to lose the most important parts of the Bible, like &quot;don't kill people&quot; and such. Actually, the Bible has survived extremely well, considering the number of times people tried to destroy and corrupt it over the years. No matter how many infiltrators and Bible-burnings were done, the Bible has survived in a mostly-unaltered state. The New International Version is oft said to have the most accurate translation, but there's still many who prefer the New King James version. Amazingly, the Dead Sea Scrolls found only in the last century, confirm the Bible's accuracy after all this time.

 

[IronChefM]

What made me become a Christian? During college a few of my friends kept telling me about Jesus, heaven and hell. I just figured if there really is a chance that heaven and hell exist - morever, that we are headed towards the latter, then it'd be worth at least a bit of my time to investigate. Looking at the cost of investigating (a bit of study time here and there) and at the potential reward (eternal life instead of death) was enough for me.
So I just kinda want some others who are in the same place to look into it for yourself. And not to just take religion (or anti-religion) hand-fed from anybody else.

 

[dafatha00]

After reading through this thread...I'm still uncertain of what to believe. There are those who believe that God will allow men into heaven based on living their lives to the fullest and being good, and there are those who absolutely accept the teachings of the bible without question.

All I can to everyone is, I hope your faith is 100 percent placed into what your ultimate beliefs. May you enjoy life accepting what you believe will come to you in the end.

Best regards to all religious, and non-religious believers.

 

[joohang]

<< No matter how many infiltrators and Bible-burnings were done, the Bible has survived in a mostly-unaltered state. The New International Version is oft said to have the most accurate translation, but there's still many who prefer the New King James version. Amazingly, the Dead Sea Scrolls found only in the last century, confirm the Bible's accuracy after all this time. >>


Very interesting. Thanks for the info, bluemax.