Question for Christians

[buck]

<< do you still believe that he is going to hell? >>


Does it matter what a Christian thinks about that? I would think that its Gods decision not ours. It is totally irrelevant what Christians think about that.

 

[RossGr]

<< << No matter how many infiltrators and Bible-burnings were done, the Bible has survived in a mostly-unaltered state. >>



I have never heard of many bible burnings? Generally it was someone waving a bible justfing the burning. Wether it be witches or books seems to have made little difference.

Really the bible is not all that old when held up aginst the works of even Plato or writings found in the Buddist monestaries. The works of the christian bible were not gathered and codified until aroung 1000AD. Then it was the work of a committee, voting on the worthyness of various works, I have always wondered about the material that lost by a few votes.~^

 

[joohang]

Interesting counter-argument, RossGr.

 

[RossGr]

Joohang:
I have been looking for some links concerning the history of the bible. My current source is taken from Edward Gibons &quot;Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire&quot; , Yes, I read every word of it,trouble is it was close to 20yrs ago and many of the details have faded from memory though the big picture remains. I was amazed at how much he devoted to the Christian religion, I have found no other work of pure history concerning the bible. Since Gibon was a Unitartian (read heritic according to the Catholic church) his work was not exactly favored by the church. The images he created were not pretty, discention between various factions each calling themselves christian, each side, on occasion, resorting to conversion at sword point. Finally this was put to a stop by Emperor Constitine who forced a decision by deifing christ, as he had previously done for his father. Since then Christ has been a god.

 

[bluemax]

Actually, during the Spanish Inquisition (for one) you were considered a heretic and burned if you OWNED a Bible! They wanted the Bibles destroyed because the Jesuit Order wanted to have complete control. If people read and studied their Bibles, they might find the things that would prove that what the &quot;church&quot; was teaching is wrong.

The destroyed Bibles wherever possible, as well as the people who knew what was in it.

This is only one example, but a darned good one.

 

[unrequited]

Edited because I made a typo.

The only problem I have with organized religion is that it encourages people to judge other people. You can't have right without wrong, as long as you believe free will exists. Without free will, of course, it's all moot, and we're characters in a novel.

I think Jesus said it best when he instructed, &quot;Judge not lest ye be judged.&quot;

Unfortunately, it's all to human a trait to judge others, especially when you have a large group of people who are convinced, without a doubt, that they are right.

One day, on a televised debate between several Christian denominations, I saw a Roman Catholic priest ask the question, &quot;How can you be so sure?&quot;

It has stuck with me ever since. That's why I mostly consider myself to be Roman Catholic, if asked to what religion I adhere. Catholics feel so guilty all the time because they don't know the answers to all the questions. I fear the man who says he knows the answer to every question...

One final thought about &quot;proof&quot; versus &quot;faith&quot;, and then I'll shut up.

Science tells us how. Philosophy asks why. Religion purports to tell us why. That is why one has faith.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< If a kind, honest, and decent man lives his entire life doing good ......... he is going to hell? >>



There were two men, one decent and upstanding in his community, he went to church often.

One was a failure. His life was hard because he openly rejected God. He pursued only personal pleasure and had hurt many people.

Both men found themselves in a crowded room with a blazing inferno in another room about to collapse in on them. The result is certain death.

A Good Man entered the room at great personal risk and shouted for everyone to get out, through the only door that would guarantee a safe exit.

The decent man did not believe the warning because he could not see any problem. He was killed in the collapse.

The man who was a failure jumped out of his seat and through the door, and was saved.

Jesus is the door.

 

[joohang]

Umm.. ok Palco. That made no sense to me.

 

[RossGr]

<< Actually, during the Spanish Inquisition (for one) you were considered a heretic and burned if you OWNED a Bible! They wanted the Bibles destroyed because the Jesuit Order wanted to have complete control. If people read and studied their Bibles, they might find the things that would prove that what the &quot;church&quot; was teaching is wrong.

The destroyed Bibles wherever possible, as well as the people who knew what was in it.

This is only one example, but a darned good one. >>



This was in the later stages when the catholics were trying to stamp out the Luthern Heresy. The inquistion was pointed at heritics, whatever flavor.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Umm.. ok Palco. That made no sense to me. >>



Truth is not contacted through the sences...

 

[JesusCow]

<< If I was God, I'd send everyone to hell, christian or not, then I'd go create some aliens. >>

yes you would

 

[Cyberian]

<< basically do what jesus says or you're fvcked.

have you ever thought about the question that when christanity started it was a tool for the government or ambitious people to herd the ignorant masses? >>



Definitely one of the two or three dumbest statements I have ever heard/read.

 

[brennan]

One caveat: I'm an atheist, so I'm not speaking for anyone else specifically.

As far as I understand it, the Catholic church believes that you can be saved by works; that is, good deeds, living a good life, etc. While this prevents people like Gahndi from going to hell while Torquemada is in heaven, it also led to stuff like people being able to &quot;buy&quot; salvation by giving enough money to the church (considered a good deed).

Martin Luther broke from the church over stuff like this (the money thing, the idea that you have to go through a priest to talk to God, and more), and the Protestant church was born. Protestantism teaches that people can *only* be saved through faith, and works don't matter. That is, if you accept Christ as your savior, you're saved, and if you don't you're going to hell regardless of how good/decent/pious a life you led. That's it; any wiggling breaks from the teaching of the church.

To editorialize: I believe that the Protestant view is absolutely and completely monstrous; anything that rewards murderers (as long as they accept Christ) while condemning Gandhi and Einstein (among others), as far as I'm concerned has abandoned all sense of justice and fairness. It rewards ass-kissing and blind faith. I don't see one good thing about it. If it's true, the whole &quot;Jesus died for my sins, isn't that wonderful&quot; rings pretty hollow in light of the punishment I'm due for simply because I think with the brain God gave me. I make a reasoned and thorough decision based on what I feel is the genuine truth, and he's going to kick my ass forever for it? That's so just, loving, and compassionate! What a great God!

The Catholic view (specifically, &quot;saved by works&quot doesn't seem so bad to me despite the past and potential abuses. It's somewhat more reasonable.

Well, at least I'll have some great company in the lake of fire, with the gnashing, and the screaming, and the hey hey hey.

-brennan

 

[brennan]

Once, there was a decent, upstanding man. He never hurt anyone, enjoyed life immensely, had a great family, and didn't believe in God at all.

One day, this decent man was sitting in a meadow, when another man, not nearly so decent and kind by anyone's standards, and frankly kind of unhappy, came running up, screaming &quot;Look out! The building is on fire and the roof is about to cave in!&quot;

The decent man looked up. Not a cloud in the sky, and certainly no roof. &quot;What the hell are you talking about?&quot;, he asked.

The unhappy man screamed again. &quot;The roof! Can't you see? Well, just believe me, okay? It's there! Burning up! You'll be sorry!&quot;

The decent man was annoyed. &quot;I don't see a roof, but I should run away anyways? Are you just trying to scare me?&quot;

&quot;The roof! Run!&quot;

The decent man put in earplugs and took a nap.

Jesus is the roof.

-brennan

 

[dafatha00]

MrPalco, what the hell are you talking about? Are you on crack?