Question regarding Credit Card Frauds

[littlebig]

It would be great if somebody in this board with financial expertise can advise me.

I lost my wallet during the business trip to Milano, Italy in the last summer (early June 2004). Somebody stole the wallet along with some cash, American Express, Discover, Citi Debit Card (master), and Citi Credit Card (master). It happened when I arrived the airport (Malpensa) for departure, so there was nothing that I could do about it locally (had to get on the plane). But, I managed to call my wife at home and tell her to report and cancel all the credit/debit cards that I possessed. Since I kept the card numbers on my computer and she knew the password (you know, those security wallet programs), she called all the card companies and the bank to stop the transactions. I am pretty sure there was at most 15-20 minute gap between the incident and the reports (because I knew I had the wallet when I arrived at the airport, I paid the fee).

Now, after 3-4 months, there were some fradulent charges coming through all of those accouts. The company is callled "3C Communications" in Milano, Italy, and it seems they are very professional. They charged a lot of "small" amounts (like $5-6) in various period of time so that it does not raise any suspicion from the card company. It seems, the card companies automatically transfer the charges from "STOLEN" accounts to "NEW" accounts. I don't know why they are doing this, but that's what happened. I called Amex and Discover, and they credited me back instantly and stopped the charges at the very same day.

The problem was "Citibank/Citicard". They were not only unable to stop the future charges, they were "extremely" slow on credits. It begins with my debit card. I had to cancel 2 bank accounts, 4 new debit cards, and even though they assured me the charges would not be transfered to new one, they were still coming through. They kept saying that it is because the card is "DEBIT" and unlike credit cards, there have "less" security features. It took 5 months to stop the further charges and get all the credit back.

So I believed...

Couple of weeks ago, I received my Citi Credit Card bill and now I'm seeing another tens of fraudulent charges from the same company. I called them, and amazingly, now what they are saying is that:
<QUOTE>
We are under obligation to MasterCard's terms and conditions. If the charges are from international and the amounts are small, we had to pay them even though the account is cancelled or suspended (and had to transfer to new accounts, if it is the case). We cannot do nothing about it except disputing it each time. We cannot guarantee that it will stop sometime soon.
</QUOTE>

So, now they are blaming MasterCard. I called MasterCard and obviously they are saying a different story.

Basically, I cannot use the credit card any longer. I cannot completely cancel the account because I need to get back the credits back. Meanwhile, new fradulent charges keep coming through, so basically it is like endless loop (until the theft decides not to use the card....).

I asked my aunt who works at AMEX, and she says what they are saying is totally BS. It seems, Citi actually want to put their responsibility to other parties.

Do you guys have any advice on how to deal with this matter? I can just sit and wait for the case resolved, but I am pretty sure it will takes half a year to be resolved. Meanwhile, I will not be able to use the card and every once in a while I have to all them to dispute tens of charges on my credit card.

This is not only inconvenient, but it drives me crazy. Citibank runs all those "Identity Theft" ads on all the stations and they have NONE-NOTHING-NIL-NADA measure to actually fight against it. Well, actually one Citi representative from security department said that it is NOT identify theft case because I lost my card.... DOH! So, if somebody just pick my credit card number from internet site and use it just the same manner, then it suddenly becomes identity theft? Then how they can fight against it? This is ridiculous.

Any suggestion? Should I contact any authorities about this? I think this matter should be informed publicly.

.*** Citibank cannot stop credit/debit card charges from thefts, even if you cancel/report the stolen card, if the charges are from abroad and the amount is small (but you know those small amounts now add up to thausands of dollars). We transfer the charges to customers until it is resolved, which may take up to nine month! ***

That's what their representatives (and supervisors) say anyway.

 

[Legendary]

If you don't have to pay it, let Citibank take it in the rear. But if you do:
Call them, demand that they credit back everything immediately, then close the account in the same phone call and tell them you'll never bank/do business with them. If the person you're talking to doesn't comply, ask to speak to someone higher up, go as high as you can, take names and employee ID numbers, and, if all else fails, send them a notarized, certified letter (that you photocopied for your own records) telling them to close your account. If that doesn't work, I don't know what to tell you.
Btw, CC# is not the same as identity theft, as one cannot "become" you, so to speak, with just a credit card.

Edit: Also, empty the bank account where the debits are going to, and transfer it to a different account (maybe at a different bank, if necessary)

 

[littlebig]

Thank you for the reply. Well been there, done that. The same thing happened to my debit card. I called all over the places (from the representatives from India to the high-up supervisors in security department), and well basically they keep saying the same stuff. I cancelled my cards 4 times, suspended/blocked the account, disassociate (that's what they calll it?) between new and old cards/accounts, none in vail. It took 6 months for the charges to stop (guess somebody in their Italy branch finally called the company?). During the time, I had to change tons of my automatic billing information, direct deposit, and had to inform all the parties that I was doing business with through this account.

I am not concerned of the amounts of charges. I am 100% sure they will credit me back (if not, they will hear from a court real soon). The problem is, THE NEW FRAUD CHARGES keep coming through the stolen account and they keep transfering the amount to the NEW account (yes, I already received new credit card TWICE). According to MasterCard, they should not have to do it (and I think they MUST NOT, because the account is, d**n it, reported to be stolen 7 month ago!).

I just don't get it.

PS: Empty account doesn't do the trick. I did it. The balance goes under minus territory and still the charges are coming through. It's VERY AMAZING. You should see it. I have an evidence (I kept 7 month worth of account balance record). Well, what I'm talking about now is credit card, not debit card though.

 

[littlebig]

By the way, yes I sent and am keeping the *notorized* dispute documents, so I think it won't be a problem. Well, for Identity Theft, I checked the goverment sites, and basically what it means is that somebody uses your ssn, drive license, bank account, and credit card numbers as if he/she is you without your knowledge or authorization, so I think this is the case. But it won't matter.

 

[Doggiedog]

Sorry to hear about your problems.

If it makes you feel any better, I've been treated really poorly by Citibank too which is why I pulled all my money from them. Citibank truly treats their retail customers like garbage.

 

[rahvin]

You should close the accounts and dispute the charges. They eat the loss and you get the hassle of disputing every charge.

 

[DaWhim]

for the debit card that link to your checking account, do you have overdraft protection?

 

[DaWhim]

also, if you are looking for finance experts, have you ever of FW - Finance?