Questions about Windows Home Server:

[BonzaiDuck]

I've just about completed the "hardware configuration" stage of my file-server-replacement project. [And . . . "Rest-in-Peace, Win 2000 Pro/Server! . . . "]

From a search among WHS threads here, it looks as though I'll reluctantly spring for a couple drives that are 640GB to 1TB in size.

Also, while not plumbing for low-power parts like "Atom," I had hoped to use a motherboard with a lower power-requirement than my spare 680i motherboard, but after juggling processors, weeding out bad spare-parts and dealing with BIOS versions better-tuned to more recent processor cores, I've thrown up my hands to go with the 680i board and a Wolfdale E8400. I'm hoping that I can enable the system to "sleep" after a fixed period of time so that it will "Wake-on-LAN." I'll worry about that later.

I'm also beginning to lean toward the common wisdom: My RAID5 array of 3x160GB (IDE) drives will probably be a waste for this. I'll be inclined to break up the array and use those drives for backup -- separately.

Now I'm looking at the WHS installation software. I've confirmed that there are Windows 2003 drivers for my 680i chipset; and the RAID PCI card even has drivers for Win 2003, although -- as I said -- I'm re-thinking the need for it.

I've got some questions:

What other drivers would I need, besides the audio and other motherboard-related drivers in the Win 2003 set available through the motherboard web-site? I'm pretty sure I'll find nVidia Win 2003 drivers for my eVGA 7600 GT PCI-E card.

Can I use the WHS system as a print-server once I've got it set up to perform its basic file-serving and backup functions?

INSTALLATION: I see, in addition to the gold server installation DVD, the OEM kit contains an "OEM Pre-installation kit" disc, a "Home Computer Restore CD," and a "Windows Home Server Connector Software" disc.

I assume that the "OEM Pre-installation" is superfluous -- just like a similar item bundled with VISTA-64. If otherwise, good advice sought here.

I assume that the Connector software needs to be installed on all other workstations connected to the LAN, or at least on those computers used to remotely take control of the WHS system. Which is it?

Can I install the Connector software AFTER installing and configuring WHS to its own hardware?

Did I miss anything here?

 

[RebateMonger]

Yeah, the OEM Pre-Install disk won't be useful for a single server installation.

I don't use the Connector software CD, since WHS has a shared folder (\\software\Home Server Connector Software) that contains the connector Setup software. Walk up to each client PC, connect to the shared \\Software folder, and run Setup.exe.

That shared folder is automatically updated with the latest version of the connector as WHS gets its automatic updates. And the client PCs get automatic updates of the Connector software from the WHS server.

You might want to download the latest PC Restore software and burn your own client recovery CD.

I don't bother with Audio drivers for my WHS servers. I install the chipset drivers, any needed disk controller drivers, and, maybe, a driver for the video card. You may need an audio driver if you are streaming audio to other devices. I don't know.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
. . .
I don't bother with Audio drivers for my WHS servers. . . .

I don't even think they're necessary for streaming, but I need to investigate. My LAN is fast enough I've no trouble playing audio or movie-MPGs off the server if they're stored there.

I just install the drivers, so they're ready in the event I need to use earphones or speakers for anything.

I don't use sound or audio much on my W2KPro system, but the drivers are installed . . . .

Thanks for the clarification and insight - good info. I'll probably make my installation as soon as I can get a bigger hard disk or two. I could go ahead and do it on the existing Seagate 7200.10 320GB Sata2 that is currently connected, but I think I want to get a bigger drive -- maybe two of them.

 

[armstrda]

If you don't plan on using the audio, why not just disable it in the BIOS? THen you don't have to worry about drivers, or the fact that WHS might say there's an unknown device

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: armstrda
If you don't plan on using the audio, why not just disable it in the BIOS? THen you don't have to worry about drivers, or the fact that WHS might say there's an unknown device

Easily done.

Does anyone know how WHS treats memory? I'm assuming that it is a 32-bit OS. Therefore, if I socket 4GB, it would only recognize between 3.3 and 3.5 GB if it behaves like XP or VISTA 32-bit.

I think 2GB is more than I need, but it's not overkill. The 2x1GB G.SKILL "NQ" kit will probably arrive today. But I may put off WHS installation until I can get two bigger hard disks. Currently available from my parts-locker are two 320GB SATA2 drives.

I bought these extra 320's in the event that a drive went south on my quad-core system's RAID5.

If I set up WHS initially for two 640 GB HD's, how will the OS handle "mounting" a hot-swap IDE drive? When I break up the RAID5 for the existing W2KPro server, I'll have three 160GB drives that can be fitted with StarTech hardware for a hot-swap bay.

 

[mc866]

WHS is 32bit so yes you will only realize the 3.2 or 3.5GB.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Did anyone want to post observations about my plan to make the WHS system double as a print-server? I cannot imagine there being any sort of problem -- if Win 2003 Server drivers supporting the printer are available.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
If I set up WHS initially for two 640 GB HD's, how will the OS handle "mounting" a hot-swap IDE drive? When I break up the RAID5 for the existing W2KPro server, I'll have three 160GB drives that can be fitted with StarTech hardware for a hot-swap bay.

Not sure what "mounting" means here. Neither XP nor Server 2003 can handle hot-swapping of an IDE drive without special drivers. I don't know if those drivers are available for Server 2003.

Swapped drives would only be useful for making backups of WHS shares, since frequently adding and removing drives from the Storage Pool wouldn't be practical.

 

[Griffinhart]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
I've got some questions:

What other drivers would I need, besides the audio and other motherboard-related drivers in the Win 2003 set available through the motherboard web-site? I'm pretty sure I'll find nVidia Win 2003 drivers for my eVGA 7600 GT PCI-E card.

That should be about it.

Can I use the WHS system as a print-server once I've got it set up to perform its basic file-serving and backup functions?

It can be used as a print server. I had my laser printer shared out on it for a while. Just be aware that WHS does not support domains, so it's a standard shared printer under the windows network.

INSTALLATION: I see, in addition to the gold server installation DVD, the OEM kit contains an "OEM Pre-installation kit" disc, a "Home Computer Restore CD," and a "Windows Home Server Connector Software" disc.

I assume that the "OEM Pre-installation" is superfluous -- just like a similar item bundled with VISTA-64. If otherwise, good advice sought here.

I went with the HP solution, so I can't help you here.

I assume that the Connector software needs to be installed on all other workstations connected to the LAN, or at least on those computers used to remotely take control of the WHS system. Which is it?

The connector client adds the backup software and remote connection elements (if the client OS supports remote desktop). You can still access shares without it, but you need the connector software installed for backups or to have the PC visible on the homeserver website for remote connections.

I wouldn't even worry about the provided disk. WHS will download a newer version and put it on the software share. Just map a drive from the PC to the WHS and install it from there.

Can I install the Connector software AFTER installing and configuring WHS to its own hardware?

The connector software is for the client. So, that's how it works.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
If I set up WHS initially for two 640 GB HD's, how will the OS handle "mounting" a hot-swap IDE drive? When I break up the RAID5 for the existing W2KPro server, I'll have three 160GB drives that can be fitted with StarTech hardware for a hot-swap bay.

Not sure what "mounting" means here. Neither XP nor Server 2003 can handle hot-swapping of an IDE drive without special drivers. I don't know if those drivers are available for Server 2003.

Swapped drives would only be useful for making backups of WHS shares, since frequently adding and removing drives from the Storage Pool wouldn't be practical.

Many Thanks to Griffenhart.

So, Rebate, the status-quo is this: there is a small utility that comes with the Startech bay-and-rack device. The program is almost exclusively devoted to "mounting" and "unmounting" IDE hot-swap drives. Otherwise, one would make sure the drive was active with the key turned in the lock position when booting up, and one would not unlock the key until the system was powered down.

But StarTech has about five or ten different models of these SATA2 or IDE systems. This is the basic kit, which contains the bay and the female hot-swap plug; additional caddies or trays cost extra -- close to the price of the kit. Very pricey, but nice. I think I can eventually modify them for SATA, but it's not a pressing need.

I think they make other network parts. I can't remember the different versions of this software, but I think there would likely be a Win 2003 version if the XP-compatible version didn't work equally well. The company wouldn't be in this type of business unless they considered that submarket.

The fact is, Provantage is one of its loyal resellers -- a big account, as far as I can tell. And they also cater strongly to a networking -- more generally government and large corporate accounts.

I'm optimistic. I recall there is a "shared pool" of drives in WHS? So you just wouldn't add the hot-swap device to the "shared pool?"

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
So you just wouldn't add the hot-swap device to the "shared pool?"

You can add a hot-swap drive to the Storage Pool, but you wouldn't want to swap it out later on unless it's a permanent change. You'd have to notify WHS, let WHS move all the files elsewhere, and THEN remove the drive. You don't control where WHS puts data files. They are stored where WHS' drive extender thinks best.

The only reason I'd use hot-swap trays in a WHS server would be for making removable backups of the shared folders.

 

[alevasseur14]

I was never able to get my HP LaserJet 1020 working while it was hooked up to the server. I looked into it a long time ago and apparently it was something with the 2k3 driver not working with the print spooler. Your mileage may vary, I guess it depends on what printer you're using.

 

[RebateMonger]

Some HP printers won't work properly on print servers. It has to do with a limited-function controller some of their printers that save HP some money but requires that every single PC connect directly to the printer. Without looking, I don't know if the 1020 is one of those models.

I just checked. The 1020 is a "host-based" (GDI-based) printer, and doesn't like working on a print server.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
INSTALLATION: I see, in addition to the gold server installation DVD, the OEM kit contains an "OEM Pre-installation kit" disc, a "Home Computer Restore CD," and a "Windows Home Server Connector Software" disc.

I assume that the "OEM Pre-installation" is superfluous -- just like a similar item bundled with VISTA-64. If otherwise, good advice sought here.

I assume that the Connector software needs to be installed on all other workstations connected to the LAN, or at least on those computers used to remotely take control of the WHS system. Which is it?

Can I install the Connector software AFTER installing and configuring WHS to its own hardware?

Did I miss anything here?

Re: Atom - Any old CPU would be fine as a WHS Server CPU. Any old $99 P4/3.0 setup would work just fine. Cheap is fine. Having a PCI SATA card so you can add cheap SATA HDDs makes good sense. Literally any old CPU is fine, and any RAM over 512MB or so is fine too. If you don't go crazy with add-ins (plugins) then 512MB RAM is fine; if you want a little room for expansion splurge and get 1GB. RAM's so cheap that you might as well get 2GB, but more isn't going to be used for home use on a server. If it were me I'd run VMware ESXi on the box, and then allocate WHS some memory from there so I could do other things with the machine; the CPU you list can do drastically more than the WHS server task!
Re: Printing - Yep, WHS works great as a print server. As others say, make sure the printer is OK with being shared out first.
Re: Connector software should be on all PCs that you want to backup. You can install it anytime; once installed, that PC will be backed up.

WHS is trivial to install, setup, and use. Go for it.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: dclive
If it were me I'd run VMware ESXi on the box, and then allocate WHS some memory from there so I could do other things with the machine; the CPU you list can do drastically more than the WHS server task!

As dclive notes, the basic WHS server is as simple as pie to install and maintain.

WHS consumes almost zero CPU time. The only "problem" with Hyper-V or ESX is that it limits what else you can run on the box. It's not going to be good for most gaming or as a Media Center with TV Tuner card because any other OSes you install can't normally talk directly to the hardware.

My current WHS is running under Hyper-V, but I've also run under Windows Virtual Server and I'm sure you could use VMWare Server, too. That' gives a bit more flexibilty to what else the box is used for. I just wouldn't want to run my WHS server on a box that's going to be subject to a lot of reboots or potential crashes on the host system.

Virtualization of WHS is a fine idea, but not necessarily for everyone. You need to consider what else you will be running on the box and whether you can use a hypervisor (like Hyper-V or ESX) or need an application-based virtualization platform.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Virtualization of WHS is a fine idea, but not necessarily for everyone. You need to consider what else you will be running on the box and whether you can use a hypervisor (like Hyper-V or ESX) or need an application-based virtualization platform.

Don't virtualize: In this case, 100% of the CPU time will go to WHS, and most of it will be wasted because WHS uses almost no CPU time. Any CPU, including a Pentium 4/1.8, will run WHS just fine. *Any* Core Duo or Core 2 Duo machine is overkill.

Virtualize: In this case, WHS will get what it needs of CPU time, and other OSs will share the rest. If you want to play with a 2003 Server, a 2008 Server, a Linux distribution, or other non-gaming, non-hardware-hitting OSs, this is the perfect opportunity.

VMware ESXi is a free download from Vmware.com *AND HAS NO OTHER OS DEPENDENCIES* (ie it installs to bare hardware), and it works great with SATA controllers/drives in most Intel chipsets, including ICH9 (965 chipset). Given that those machines are dirt cheap and work perfectly with a C2D Quad 2.4 with 8GB of RAM, you can be off to the races for just a few hundred bucks.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

alevasseur14
Rebatemonger
dclive

The printer is an old HP DeskJet 1000C, parallel-centronics interface.

Another reason I list for need to upgrade my W2KPro server, is some irritating incompatibility between the 1000C and my DLink Print-Server DP-300U. I think there will be a lot of drivers for 1000C, optimistic chances there will be some sort of driver for Win 2003.

The 1000C prints paper sizes 11x17", 17x13" -- as well as letter, legal, various envelopes, mailing labels.

It worked just fine on the W2KPro system.

It is true that my hardware choices are excessive here. So I should see the cup half-full in regards to my hardware purchases so far. I think I blew $150. The rest were "spare-parts."

Probably, the P4/533 and 32-bit Rambus system would suffice to continue for some period of time, so it is not yet offline. It will only go offline permanently if I swap the new configuration into the case to jettison the old parts once and for all. But it has been in continuous operation for about 6+ years. The original boot-disk is RAID0, and the disks include one that required an ambulance-emergency to enlist my brother's soldering skills for four broken Molex connections.

The RAID5 is separate, but only uses 3 160GB disks -- a fourth in storage in the event one of the array disks goes south. I've verified drivers for the HighPoint 454 PCI card under WHS, and the impression from sampling web-queries suggests there are no significant problems with it. But it requires IDE drives.

I have about three still-modable tower ATX cases that first shipped to us in the late 1990's -- or '90's era cases like an old INWIN full-tower. So I can keep the old W2KPro online indefinitely and periodically if I want to work on one of those cases -- just as it would be tempting to "work" on the existing full-tower case.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
Virtualization of WHS is a fine idea, but not necessarily for everyone. You need to consider what else you will be running on the box and whether you can use a hypervisor (like Hyper-V or ESX) or need an application-based virtualization platform.

Don't virtualize: In this case, 100% of the CPU time will go to WHS, and most of it will be wasted because WHS uses almost no CPU time. Any CPU, including a Pentium 4/1.8, will run WHS just fine. *Any* Core Duo or Core 2 Duo machine is overkill.

Virtualize: In this case, WHS will get what it needs of CPU time, and other OSs will share the rest. If you want to play with a 2003 Server, a 2008 Server, a Linux distribution, or other non-gaming, non-hardware-hitting OSs, this is the perfect opportunity.

VMware ESXi is a free download from Vmware.com *AND HAS NO OTHER OS DEPENDENCIES* (ie it installs to bare hardware), and it works great with SATA controllers/drives in most Intel chipsets, including ICH9 (965 chipset). Given that those machines are dirt cheap and work perfectly with a C2D Quad 2.4 with 8GB of RAM, you can be off to the races for just a few hundred bucks.

dclive (or anyone else out there) -- I'm only generally acquainted with the notion of "virtual machine." Does VMWare or any of these other options you mention -- install PRIOR to installing an OS? Or does one . . . install an OS like XP or VISTA, and THEN install the virtualization software to enable use of Windows Home Server or other OS choices? I think it is likely the latter case, but I haven't caught up on virtualization first-hand. Never had a problem with multi-boot/multi-OS situations in the '90s, but I decided to follow the KISS principle and never explored "virtualization."

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck

dclive (or anyone else out there) -- I'm only generally acquainted with the notion of "virtual machine." Does VMWare or any of these other options you mention -- install PRIOR to installing an OS? Or does one . . . install an OS like XP or VISTA, and THEN install the virtualization software to enable use of Windows Home Server or other OS choices? I think it is likely the latter case, but I haven't caught up on virtualization first-hand. Never had a problem with multi-boot/multi-OS situations in the '90s, but I decided to follow the KISS principle and never explored "virtualization."

ESX(i) installs to bare hardware. Download ESXi, install it to your machine, and then you can install virtual machines onto it. There's no other OS involved - ESXi directly hits the hardware and controls the hardware, which is one reason why it's so efficient.

It's the former case, not the latter. ESXi is the host OS. The guest OSs can be almost anything - WHS, Vista, XP, 2003, 2008, etc.

Given the absurd CPU speeds one gets for dirt cheap, and given the massive amounts of RAM one can get for $50, it's a bit silly to dedicate a single physical machine to just one OS unless there's a very specific reason to do so.

 

[RebateMonger]

If you need direct access to a parallel-port printer, be cautious when considering virtualization. I know for sure that Hyper-V doesn't support either for any virtualized OSes. VMWare's Server product has a way to access USB devices. I don't know about parallel devices on VMWare Server. And I don't know about ESX.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Thanks to dclive and RebateMonger.

The centronics printer is a key feature that must work. If you know anything more specific about ESX or VMWare, I would like to hear it before I go forward with this.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
If you need direct access to a parallel-port printer, be cautious when considering virtualization. I know for sure that Hyper-V doesn't support either for any virtualized OSes. VMWare's Server product has a way to access USB devices. I don't know about parallel devices on VMWare Server. And I don't know about ESX.

By far the simplest solution to handle print devices is a Linksys/Cisco/DLink/etc. gizmo to put the printer onto your home network, and then _any_ machine can print to it via Bonjour/Appletalk/LPR/etc. protocols. True, it's $20 (on sale) on up, but it makes things _far_ simpler. Then take one of the Server 2003 VMs, attach it (over the network) to the printer, and share the printer out from there (so your other OSs will auto-install any drivers if they aren't native). Very handy.

What other questions are there about ESXi?

I've got my ESXi box in a closet, headless (no monitor, no keyboard, no mouse) and it sits in there for months on end, flawlessly running all my virtual machines for my 2003 domain, my WHS setup (2.0TB and growing), SQL boxes, and more.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
If you need direct access to a parallel-port printer, be cautious when considering virtualization. I know for sure that Hyper-V doesn't support either for any virtualized OSes. VMWare's Server product has a way to access USB devices. I don't know about parallel devices on VMWare Server. And I don't know about ESX.

By far the simplest solution to handle print devices is a Linksys/Cisco/DLink/etc. gizmo to put the printer onto your home network, and then _any_ machine can print to it via Bonjour/Appletalk/LPR/etc. protocols. True, it's $20 (on sale) on up, but it makes things _far_ simpler. Then take one of the Server 2003 VMs, attach it (over the network) to the printer, and share the printer out from there (so your other OSs will auto-install any drivers if they aren't native). Very handy.

What other questions are there about ESXi?

I've got my ESXi box in a closet, headless (no monitor, no keyboard, no mouse) and it sits in there for months on end, flawlessly running all my virtual machines for my 2003 domain, my WHS setup (2.0TB and growing), SQL boxes, and more.

Sure, dClive -- that's what I'd otherwise prefer. I'm at a crossroads, and only for an HP Deskjet 1000C purchased in late 1997. [Takes a licking, keeps on ticking. Just replace the cartridges when they go dry.]

I had the 1000C hooked up to the W2KPro server I'm planning to rebuild/replace (with a WHS server). Then, I picked up a D-Link DP-300U box (which had a centronics and 2 USB ports on it) -- assuming that if the 1100C was on their "tested campatibility" list, there wouldn't be a problem with the 1000C. But . . . . there are problems. So with the server project, I thought I might reconnect the 1000C to that unit -- once built.

I think I tried one USB-to-Centronics cable-device -- didn't work. Then the DP-300U. I can either spend some more bucks on another print-server ethernet box, or go this other direction.

And I can keep the W2KPro server up and running until I've got the WHS configuration sorted out. Of course -- that's why I posted this thread.

Barring the expense, the easiest thing to do would be to throw away a perfectly good parallel inkjet printer and get a USB model. It's amazing, though, how one can go through nickels and dimes to achieve a preferred configuration for a 12-year-old printer, ain't it?!

I've got enough "doo-dads" of parts an' "stuff" laying around that I could set that printer up any number of ways, and squeeze another 5 years or so out of it -- as long as they keep making cartridges . . . . For instance, I've got a couple PCI LPT/parallel interfaces (they're cheap at about $12 each.)

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: RebateMonger
If you need direct access to a parallel-port printer, be cautious when considering virtualization. I know for sure that Hyper-V doesn't support either for any virtualized OSes. VMWare's Server product has a way to access USB devices. I don't know about parallel devices on VMWare Server. And I don't know about ESX.

By far the simplest solution to handle print devices is a Linksys/Cisco/DLink/etc. gizmo to put the printer onto your home network, and then _any_ machine can print to it via Bonjour/Appletalk/LPR/etc. protocols. True, it's $20 (on sale) on up, but it makes things _far_ simpler. Then take one of the Server 2003 VMs, attach it (over the network) to the printer, and share the printer out from there (so your other OSs will auto-install any drivers if they aren't native). Very handy.

What other questions are there about ESXi?

I've got my ESXi box in a closet, headless (no monitor, no keyboard, no mouse) and it sits in there for months on end, flawlessly running all my virtual machines for my 2003 domain, my WHS setup (2.0TB and growing), SQL boxes, and more.

Sure, dClive -- that's what I'd otherwise prefer. I'm at a crossroads, and only for an HP Deskjet 1000C purchased in late 1997. [Takes a licking, keeps on ticking. Just replace the cartridges when they go dry.]

I had the 1000C hooked up to the W2KPro server I'm planning to rebuild/replace (with a WHS server). Then, I picked up a D-Link DP-300U box (which had a centronics and 2 USB ports on it) -- assuming that if the 1100C was on their "tested campatibility" list, there wouldn't be a problem with the 1000C. But . . . . there are problems. So with the server project, I thought I might reconnect the 1000C to that unit -- once built.

I think I tried one USB-to-Centronics cable-device -- didn't work. Then the DP-300U. I can either spend some more bucks on another print-server ethernet box, or go this other direction.

And I can keep the W2KPro server up and running until I've got the WHS configuration sorted out. Of course -- that's why I posted this thread.

Barring the expense, the easiest thing to do would be to throw away a perfectly good parallel inkjet printer and get a USB model. It's amazing, though, how one can go through nickels and dimes to achieve a preferred configuration for a 12-year-old printer, ain't it?!

I've got enough "doo-dads" of parts an' "stuff" laying around that I could set that printer up any number of ways, and squeeze another 5 years or so out of it -- as long as they keep making cartridges . . . . For instance, I've got a couple PCI LPT/parallel interfaces (they're cheap at about $12 each.)

I'd say its time to get a new printer.

Especially with the give the printer away and gouge on the ink business model. I'd bet the cheapest inkjet you could buy is far superior to the old printer youre trying to use anyway.

 

[dclive]

B&W lasers are $50 in deals sections these days; spend a few $ more and get one with an ethernet interface and you're all set.