Quran Abuse

[yllus]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: yllus
an inanimate object

If that's how you look at it, nothing I say can change your mind.

But for what it's worth, it's more than an inanimate object. Much more.

How would you feel if someone desecrated something you hold dear? A family heirloom, a souvenir from a loving friend, a gift from someone who cares about you ... all symbols of love and affection.

The Qur'an is much more than that. One in five people in this world consider it to be the literal word of God! Surely that means something?

I'd immediately fly into a rage, and destroy and kill others. Or perhaps I'd justify the senseless slaughter of innocents in a far-off war because my precious inanimate object has been defiled. Yes, that sounds like the reaction of a rational human being.

So remember the name of thy Lord and devote thyself with complete devotion -

Lord of the East and the West; there is no God save Him; so choose thou Him alone for thy defender -

And bear with patience what they utter, and part from them with a fair leave-taking.

Leave Me to deal with the deniers, lord of ease and comfort (in this life); and do thou respite them awhile.

73:9-11

I respect no hypocrite.

 

[ValuedCustomer]

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer

Originally posted by: Amplifier
No it's an inanimate object. Same as the American flag. Same as a Bible. Some guys love Fords but they don't cry when a monster truck runs one over.

wow.. I'd bet a million bux you call yourself a "Liberal" or in the very least, vote Dem.. do you have any idea how culturally insensitive you are being? holy crap.. so if you don't get it then it's gotta be worthless? I got another million bux that says you talk smack about America cuz it tries to push its Western ideas on the rest of the world.. - You are exactly the problem w/ the Left and what passes for liberal ideology these days. - The Left and neoLibs have morphed into everything they always tried not to be.. oooh the irony :disgust:

No one ever considers that a religion might be a little bit bigger than a symbol. Especially the people who say they believe in it.

pfft.. just what are trying to mean? if you're giggling w/ satisfaction at that attempt at metaphysical snarkiness then I've got a mud puddle I need to introduce you to.. you'll find it fascinating.

p.s. You're calling me insensitive towards a culture and then go and say oh look at Amp he's just some democrat/liberal fvck his beliefs. THE IRONY.

nothin' like 3rd grade reading comprehension skillz to make yourself look like an idiot.. try again, junior

p.p.s. I voted Republican.

what is that supposed to mean? you "voted Republican" what? when? who?

jesus h. christ, this is like trying to communicate w/ a tomato :Q

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: yllus
I'd immediately fly into a rage, and destroy and kill others.

And this describes the global Muslim reaction ... how? Do you see ALL muslims or the majority of Muslims staging violent and chaotic protests?

Originally posted by: yllus
Or perhaps I'd justify the senseless slaughter of innocents in a far-off war because my precious inanimate object has been defiled.

Have I done that? You're getting carried away.

Even though I condemn the beheadings strongly as it is absolutely against the spirit of Islam, what did you expect the Muslims to have done? Protest? Against who/what? A phantom figure with a wooden leg, punctured lung and nine lives?

Originally posted by: yllus
So remember the name of thy Lord and devote thyself with complete devotion -

Lord of the East and the West; there is no God save Him; so choose thou Him alone for thy defender -

And bear with patience what they utter, and part from them with a fair leave-taking.

Leave Me to deal with the deniers, lord of ease and comfort (in this life); and do thou respite them awhile.

73:9-11

I respect no hypocrite.

Sorry, yllus. Doesn't work that way.

The verses you have quoted from the Qur'an are from the Meccan period of revelation. This was the time of great persecution for the prophet (pbuh) and his fellow Muslims at the hands of the pagans of Mecca. They were, however, forbidden by God to respond to any abuse and ill-treatment, whether it be verbal or physical. The Muslims obeyed this commandment till the very end. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) led the way by responding to defamation with salutation and physical abuse with patience and tolerance.

Even though some companions of the prophet were tempted to respond in kind to the oppression of the Quraish, they were strictly forbidden by God to do so, as demonstrated in the verses you have quoted and 52:48, 38:17, 20:130.

However, when the migration took place and the Muslims formed a stronghold in Medina, the limitation was lifted and they were allowed to defend themselves and their new establishment:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors." (2:190)

The permission was then upgraded into a commandment by God:

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not. They ask thee concerning fighting in the prohibited month. Say: ?Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." (2:216-17)

Now you have seen the verses in context. How can you then infer that desecration of the Qur'an should somehow be "tolerable" to Muslims? Not to mention the number of times the Qur'an is praised and exalted by God in the Qur'an itself!

I don't recall you doing this before but please refrain from quoting the verses of the Qur'an out of context in the future.

Edit: By the way, I don't approve of hypocrisy either. Hence my dislike for the Bush administration.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Why should Americans be sensitive to other peoples culture?

We aren't, Americans are productive and have cool items (South/Midwest excluded).

Why should Americans be expected to be sensitive to other peoples culture?

Well, for the basic reason that it's a whole lot harder to get along with people if you piss all over their culture. Whether we should feel obligated to be sensitive or not is something we have to leave up to our own moral compass, but for rational reasons, it's a good idea.

Do you feel angry when people in other countries burn our flag? I know I do, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. We have to realize that other people will react the same way.

I'm just curious, but isn't their DEATH TO AMERICA stance kind of pissing all over our culture? Why is respect a one way street?

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: yllus
an inanimate object

If that's how you look at it, nothing I say can change your mind.

But for what it's worth, it's more than an inanimate object. Much more.

How would you feel if someone desecrated something you hold dear? A family heirloom, a souvenir from a loving friend, a gift from someone who cares about you ... all symbols of love and affection.

The Qur'an is much more than that. One in five people in this world consider it to be the literal word of God! Surely that means something?

To one out of five people in the world, it surely does. Do you think that Islam should be respected because you want it to be or because it deserves to be?

No it's an inanimate object. Same as the American flag. Same as a Bible. Some guys love Fords but they don't cry when a monster truck runs one over.

Our country calls people artists and give them government grants when they desecrate the Bible..

 

[wavshrdr]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: yllus
an inanimate object

If that's how you look at it, nothing I say can change your mind.

But for what it's worth, it's more than an inanimate object. Much more.

How would you feel if someone desecrated something you hold dear? A family heirloom, a souvenir from a loving friend, a gift from someone who cares about you ... all symbols of love and affection.

The Qur'an is much more than that. One in five people in this world consider it to be the literal word of God! Surely that means something?

To one out of five people in the world, it surely does. Do you think that Islam should be respected because you want it to be or because it deserves to be?

Respect must be earned. Not demanded! Just because 20% of the world's population believe in something doesn't mean it is right no more so than any other. Islam has been perverted by extremists. How can I respect a group of people that want to murder me or innocent people in the name of a holy war just because I don't believe their version of God?

Yet when they were chopping people's heads off it was like no big deal to many people. Where was the public outcry in the middle-East? Why do so many people in the media now want to give the terrorists (murderers by any name) the full rights and protection of the Geneva Accord with respect to combat? They are not a uniformed army nor do they respect anyone. I am so tired of being held to a higher standard when these SOB's would gut your children on television if it helped them win more converts to their cause. How can you reason with terrorists? Any moderate Islamists are almost immediately killed off by their radical brethren! How can you reason with a psycho-path?

There are 2 sets of rules at work here. The rules the US must play by in the world media and then the rules (or lack thereof) that the terrorists follow which is anything is justifiable if it helps advance their cause. Killing their own countrymen is fine. I love how the media has change the name of killers/murderes into names such as suicide bombers. They are just plain murderers. They murder people first and foremost. If they die in the carnage it is just a by-product of their intent. They are too cowardly to later stand trial for their actions so they take the coward's way out! The BS about the virgins waiting for them is a lot of crap. Sure would be great to be a woman in that society! You would be just some man's meat puppet for your entire life. What does a woman murderer (excuse me, suicide bomber) get for her act of cowardice? Does she get a bunch of virgin men or does she just get raped by all the other lame-a$$ cowards who blew up other innocents?

A very astute Egyptian journalist remarked last year something to the effect that "Islam has a problem. Almost all terrorists from the past 10 years have all been MUSLIMS!" He went on to remark that we as Muslims need to do something about it or soon the entire world will be against Islam. Well he was very perceptive as the backlash against Islam is not taking place in just America.

I recently was in Germany and Holland and the citizens there are getting pretty ticked off against the Muslims in their countries. They were pretty much of the opinion that most Muslims are some sort of extremist whackos. They want to ship the Muslim immigrants back to where they came from. They can't understand why they came to (insert country of your choice here but for my post Germany or Holland) if they hate all the non-Muslims and all the other countries so much. To translate my friends' comments who live outside of Amsterdam (very LIBERAL area) "Why don't they go back to the 'sh!thole' they came from if they hate me and my country so much. I didn't invite them here and I wish to hell'd they leave". This was from a friend that is so liberal he would make Jane Fonda look like a Republican. He is in favor of legalized drugs, prostitution, massive social programs, etc.

Even his very calm wife became visibly enraged when the topic of Muslims came up. She is a teacher of Dutch for foreigners immigrating there and often her students would be comprised of Muslims. Often the women had visibily been physically abused. She learned that often the women were beaten by their husbands for minor infractions. If they told the police they would be dealt with very severely. What kind of religon would condone this kind of treatment?

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: wavshrdr

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: yllus
an inanimate object

If that's how you look at it, nothing I say can change your mind.

But for what it's worth, it's more than an inanimate object. Much more.

How would you feel if someone desecrated something you hold dear? A family heirloom, a souvenir from a loving friend, a gift from someone who cares about you ... all symbols of love and affection.

The Qur'an is much more than that. One in five people in this world consider it to be the literal word of God! Surely that means something?

To one out of five people in the world, it surely does. Do you think that Islam should be respected because you want it to be or because it deserves to be?

Respect must be earned. Not demanded! Just because 20% of the world's population believe in something doesn't mean it is right no more so than any other. Islam has been perverted by extremists. How can I respect a group of people that want to murder me or innocent people in the name of a holy war just because I don't believe their version of God?

Yet when they were chopping people's heads off it was like no big deal to many people. Where was the public outcry in the middle-East? Why do so many people in the media now want to give the terrorists (murderers by any name) the full rights and protection of the Geneva Accord with respect to combat? They are not a uniformed army nor do they respect anyone. I am so tired of being held to a higher standard when these SOB's would gut your children on television if it helped them win more converts to their cause. How can you reason with terrorists? Any moderate Islamists are almost immediately killed off by their radical brethren! How can you reason with a psycho-path?

There are 2 sets of rules at work here. The rules the US must play by in the world media and then the rules (or lack thereof) that the terrorists follow which is anything is justifiable if it helps advance their cause. Killing their own countrymen is fine. I love how the media has change the name of killers/murderes into names such as suicide bombers. They are just plain murderers. They murder people first and foremost. If they die in the carnage it is just a by-product of their intent. They are too cowardly to later stand trial for their actions so they take the coward's way out! The BS about the virgins waiting for them is a lot of crap. Sure would be great to be a woman in that society! You would be just some man's meat puppet for your entire life. What does a woman murderer (excuse me, suicide bomber) get for her act of cowardice? Does she get a bunch of virgin men or does she just get raped by all the other lame-a$$ cowards who blew up other innocents?

A very astute Egyptian journalist remarked last year something to the effect that "Islam has a problem. Almost all terrorists from the past 10 years have all been MUSLIMS!" He went on to remark that we as Muslims need to do something about it or soon the entire world will be against Islam. Well he was very perceptive as the backlash against Islam is not taking place in just America.

I recently was in Germany and Holland and the citizens there are getting pretty ticked off against the Muslims in their countries. They were pretty much of the opinion that most Muslims are some sort of extremist whackos. They want to ship the Muslim immigrants back to where they came from. They can't understand why they came to (insert country of your choice here but for my post Germany or Holland) if they hate all the non-Muslims and all the other countries so much. To translate my friends' comments who live outside of Amsterdam (very LIBERAL area) "Why don't they go back to the 'sh!thole' they came from if they hate me and my country so much. I didn't invite them here and I wish to hell'd they leave". This was from a friend that is so liberal he would make Jane Fonda look like a Republican. He is in favor of legalized drugs, prostitution, massive social programs, etc.

Even his very calm wife became visibly enraged when the topic of Muslims came up. She is a teacher of Dutch for foreigners immigrating there and often her students would be comprised of Muslims. Often the women had visibily been physically abused. She learned that often the women were beaten by their husbands for minor infractions. If they told the police they would be dealt with very severely. What kind of religon would condone this kind of treatment?

Great post.. very well put.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: wavshrdr

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: yllus
an inanimate object

If that's how you look at it, nothing I say can change your mind.

But for what it's worth, it's more than an inanimate object. Much more.

How would you feel if someone desecrated something you hold dear? A family heirloom, a souvenir from a loving friend, a gift from someone who cares about you ... all symbols of love and affection.

The Qur'an is much more than that. One in five people in this world consider it to be the literal word of God! Surely that means something?

To one out of five people in the world, it surely does. Do you think that Islam should be respected because you want it to be or because it deserves to be?

Respect must be earned. Not demanded! Just because 20% of the world's population believe in something doesn't mean it is right no more so than any other. Islam has been perverted by extremists. How can I respect a group of people that want to murder me or innocent people in the name of a holy war just because I don't believe their version of God?

Yet when they were chopping people's heads off it was like no big deal to many people. Where was the public outcry in the middle-East? Why do so many people in the media now want to give the terrorists (murderers by any name) the full rights and protection of the Geneva Accord with respect to combat? They are not a uniformed army nor do they respect anyone. I am so tired of being held to a higher standard when these SOB's would gut your children on television if it helped them win more converts to their cause. How can you reason with terrorists? Any moderate Islamists are almost immediately killed off by their radical brethren! How can you reason with a psycho-path?

There are 2 sets of rules at work here. The rules the US must play by in the world media and then the rules (or lack thereof) that the terrorists follow which is anything is justifiable if it helps advance their cause. Killing their own countrymen is fine. I love how the media has change the name of killers/murderes into names such as suicide bombers. They are just plain murderers. They murder people first and foremost. If they die in the carnage it is just a by-product of their intent. They are too cowardly to later stand trial for their actions so they take the coward's way out! The BS about the virgins waiting for them is a lot of crap. Sure would be great to be a woman in that society! You would be just some man's meat puppet for your entire life. What does a woman murderer (excuse me, suicide bomber) get for her act of cowardice? Does she get a bunch of virgin men or does she just get raped by all the other lame-a$$ cowards who blew up other innocents?

A very astute Egyptian journalist remarked last year something to the effect that "Islam has a problem. Almost all terrorists from the past 10 years have all been MUSLIMS!" He went on to remark that we as Muslims need to do something about it or soon the entire world will be against Islam. Well he was very perceptive as the backlash against Islam is not taking place in just America.

I recently was in Germany and Holland and the citizens there are getting pretty ticked off against the Muslims in their countries. They were pretty much of the opinion that most Muslims are some sort of extremist whackos. They want to ship the Muslim immigrants back to where they came from. They can't understand why they came to (insert country of your choice here but for my post Germany or Holland) if they hate all the non-Muslims and all the other countries so much. To translate my friends' comments who live outside of Amsterdam (very LIBERAL area) "Why don't they go back to the 'sh!thole' they came from if they hate me and my country so much. I didn't invite them here and I wish to hell'd they leave". This was from a friend that is so liberal he would make Jane Fonda look like a Republican. He is in favor of legalized drugs, prostitution, massive social programs, etc.

Even his very calm wife became visibly enraged when the topic of Muslims came up. She is a teacher of Dutch for foreigners immigrating there and often her students would be comprised of Muslims. Often the women had visibily been physically abused. She learned that often the women were beaten by their husbands for minor infractions. If they told the police they would be dealt with very severely. What kind of religon would condone this kind of treatment?

You just described a race not a religion.

Arabs who are 18% of the Muslim population.

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Originally posted by: wavshrdr
Respect must be earned. Not demanded! Just because 20% of the world's population believe in something doesn't mean it is right no more so than any other. Islam has been perverted by extremists. How can I respect a group of people that want to murder me or innocent people in the name of a holy war just because I don't believe their version of God?

Yet when they were chopping people's heads off it was like no big deal to many people. Where was the public outcry in the middle-East? Why do so many people in the media now want to give the terrorists (murderers by any name) the full rights and protection of the Geneva Accord with respect to combat? They are not a uniformed army nor do they respect anyone. I am so tired of being held to a higher standard when these SOB's would gut your children on television if it helped them win more converts to their cause. How can you reason with terrorists? Any moderate Islamists are almost immediately killed off by their radical brethren! How can you reason with a psycho-path?

There are 2 sets of rules at work here. The rules the US must play by in the world media and then the rules (or lack thereof) that the terrorists follow which is anything is justifiable if it helps advance their cause. Killing their own countrymen is fine. I love how the media has change the name of killers/murderes into names such as suicide bombers. They are just plain murderers. They murder people first and foremost. If they die in the carnage it is just a by-product of their intent. They are too cowardly to later stand trial for their actions so they take the coward's way out! The BS about the virgins waiting for them is a lot of crap. Sure would be great to be a woman in that society! You would be just some man's meat puppet for your entire life. What does a woman murderer (excuse me, suicide bomber) get for her act of cowardice? Does she get a bunch of virgin men or does she just get raped by all the other lame-a$$ cowards who blew up other innocents?

A very astute Egyptian journalist remarked last year something to the effect that "Islam has a problem. Almost all terrorists from the past 10 years have all been MUSLIMS!" He went on to remark that we as Muslims need to do something about it or soon the entire world will be against Islam. Well he was very perceptive as the backlash against Islam is not taking place in just America.

I recently was in Germany and Holland and the citizens there are getting pretty ticked off against the Muslims in their countries. They were pretty much of the opinion that most Muslims are some sort of extremist whackos. They want to ship the Muslim immigrants back to where they came from. They can't understand why they came to (insert country of your choice here but for my post Germany or Holland) if they hate all the non-Muslims and all the other countries so much. To translate my friends' comments who live outside of Amsterdam (very LIBERAL area) "Why don't they go back to the 'sh!thole' they came from if they hate me and my country so much. I didn't invite them here and I wish to hell'd they leave". This was from a friend that is so liberal he would make Jane Fonda look like a Republican. He is in favor of legalized drugs, prostitution, massive social programs, etc.

Even his very calm wife became visibly enraged when the topic of Muslims came up. She is a teacher of Dutch for foreigners immigrating there and often her students would be comprised of Muslims. Often the women had visibily been physically abused. She learned that often the women were beaten by their husbands for minor infractions. If they told the police they would be dealt with very severely. What kind of religon would condone this kind of treatment?

Thank your for your comments. It raises a number of concerns and understably so.

This new scourge of Islamic terrorism has done nothing but given a bad name to Muslims and Islam. The killing of noncombatants and innocents in Islam is strictly prohibited. The actions of these terrorists cannot be justified by Islam.

What you have described above, the "wife beating", does happen and quite often in rural areas of the Islamic world where education is not a priority and an offshoot of the feudal system has held the region back. You must have seen the Amnesty International video of the young girl being burnt by acid in a rural part of Pakistan, only to die a painful death a few days later.

Edit: This is what Islam, the religion, has to say about it.

It is true and it is happening. The question is what are "good" Muslims doing about it? To tell you the truth, they are trying. But their progress is often hindered by politics. You see, such a culture of abuse and mistreatment can only be changed by education. And this is where the problem comes in because that is something achievable only by an strong, established organization, i.e. the government. Many, if not most, Islamic governments today are corrupt oligarchies in truth and often the goals and objectives of these "good" Islamic groups include some sort of change to the current state to bring an end to the corruption and abuse of power. This is where the conflict comes in. Take a look at the aftermath of the protests in Uzbekistan, for example.

That is only part of the problem. There are many other problems currently facing the Islamic world. Poverty, lack of basic necesseties, poor civilian infrastructure etc. Frankly and sadly, under these circumstances, domestic abuse doesn't take priority.

It is undeniable that Islam and Muslims have done the world more good than harm. Any student of history will tell you that. In this sense, they have earned the respect of the world. What you are trying to say, perhaps, is that Muslims today cannot use their illustrious past as an excuse. And that's right.

You see, the things being done today in the name of Islam have brought only shame and anguish to those Muslims who strive to make a positive change in this world. Take a look at this for example.

The followers of an ideology/religion are representatives of it. As a global community, the Muslims today are not doing a good job of representing Islam. That much is agreed upon.

All I ask of others is to look at Islam, on its own. This requires one to know a thing or two about Islamic faith. In my opinion, the effort will only give your voice an added weight.

 

[The Green Bean]

After reading all this, its a pity why all these beheadings automatically point to muslims. When muslims point the fingers at americans complaining of torture, americans say its just some of them. :/

Every society has criminals. This has nothing to do with Islam.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: wavshrdr

Originally posted by: Ozoned

To one out of five people in the world, it surely does. Do you think that Islam should be respected because you want it to be or because it deserves to be?

Respect must be earned. Not demanded!

Muslims around the world, according to the op, are being rallied by their religious leaders
to demand that we respect their precious Quran. I would prefer that they make the case for their religion and attempt to gain my respect for it. So far, I can not see that Islam is much different than any other religion. The supposed "word of god" is still subject to interpretation by worldly men, and the interpretations are as vast as the number of religions that exist in our world.

I guess, in the interim, I need to make a decision:
Do I gain their respect and feign my respect for their Quran and the religion it represents, or do I Gain their respect by giving them the truth, as it pertains to what I personally believe?
Would their culture allow them to choose or make this same kind of choice? I think not. They need to have this basic fundamental human right.:|

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: yllus
I'd immediately fly into a rage, and destroy and kill others. Or perhaps I'd justify the senseless slaughter of innocents in a far-off war because my precious inanimate object has been defiled. Yes, that sounds like the reaction of a rational human being. ...

I haven't read everyone's comments, but I don't think anyone is claiming the response was rational, or even justified. Instead, I think the response was predictable and that we provoked it. There is wrong on both sides.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Personally, I'd like to ship all these fanatics to Antarctica, muslim and christian both. The world would be such a better place

They'd only evolve.

into polar bear turds....

Wrong pole:roll:

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Amplifier

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: yllus
an inanimate object

If that's how you look at it, nothing I say can change your mind.

But for what it's worth, it's more than an inanimate object. Much more.

How would you feel if someone desecrated something you hold dear? A family heirloom, a souvenir from a loving friend, a gift from someone who cares about you ... all symbols of love and affection.

The Qur'an is much more than that. One in five people in this world consider it to be the literal word of God! Surely that means something?

To one out of five people in the world, it surely does. Do you think that Islam should be respected because you want it to be or because it deserves to be?

No it's an inanimate object. Same as the American flag. Same as a Bible. Some guys love Fords but they don't cry when a monster truck runs one over.

Our country calls people artists and give them government grants when they desecrate the Bible..

Apparently you missed the part of Separation of State and Christianity

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda
If that's how you look at it, nothing I say can change your mind.

But for what it's worth, it's more than an inanimate object. Much more.

How would you feel if someone desecrated something you hold dear? A family heirloom, a souvenir from a loving friend, a gift from someone who cares about you ... all symbols of love and affection.

The Qur'an is much more than that. One in five people in this world consider it to be the literal word of God! Surely that means something?

It's writting on paper, the "desecration" of that writting means nothing. You appear to be making the arguement that the "mistreatment" of those words on paper somehow affects the value of those words to you or others. If you truely feel that way then your views are truely sad. There is a rather popular saying in the US that says Sticks and Stone will break my bones but words will never hurt me, the muslims in this world allow words to hurt them and much like children we should pitty their feelings, not appease them.

Oh BTW aren't you the SOB that said he would stone to death is own daughter for fornication? If so I already know what to think of your opinion.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper


Wrong pole:roll:

He forgot Poland.

:roll:

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: GreatBarracuda

Originally posted by: yllus
I'd immediately fly into a rage, and destroy and kill others.

And this describes the global Muslim reaction ... how? Do you see ALL muslims or the majority of Muslims staging violent and chaotic protests?

I don't recall stating that it was the global Muslim reaction. We are discussing the ramifications of t the 'abuse' of an inanimate object. Here's a recap:

Many Muslims were outraged earlier this month when Newsweek magazine reported interrogators at the lockup at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, flushed a Quran down the toilet to get inmates to talk. The story -- later retracted -- sparked deadly riots in Afghanistan.

More than 15,000 people marched in Pakistan. About 5,000 marched in Dhaka, Bangladesh, and some spat on, kicked and burned the U.S. flag. Others shouted "Death to America!" as they held copies of the Quran.

To underexaggerate, that is what we might term an overreaction.

Originally posted by: yllus
Or perhaps I'd justify the senseless slaughter of innocents in a far-off war because my precious inanimate object has been defiled.

Have I done that? You're getting carried away.

Even though I condemn the beheadings strongly as it is absolutely against the spirit of Islam, what did you expect the Muslims to have done? Protest? Against who/what? A phantom figure with a wooden leg, punctured lung and nine lives?

Did I say that you did that? Did I say Muslims should protest anything, though it'd certainly be welcome?

We're talking about thousands of people who made an effort to march the streets to protest mistreatment of a book and/or kill each other.

Sorry, yllus. Doesn't work that way.

Now you have seen the verses in context. How can you then infer that desecration of the Qur'an should somehow be "tolerable" to Muslims? Not to mention the number of times the Qur'an is praised and exalted by God in the Qur'an itself!

WTF? Citing context does absolutely nothing for your argument - it weakens it, at best. Whether it's "tolerable" or not is besides the point. Unless you make the insane jump from the mistreatment of a book as a 'fight' against a religion to righteous bloodspilling in riots, there is no justification for what has taken place in response to the item printed by Newsweek.

I don't recall you doing this before but please refrain from quoting the verses of the Qur'an out of context in the future.

You let the Muslim Educational Trust know that a bunch of their literature is taking ideas on what the Quran says about tolerance out of context, and then get back to me on that request with their reply.

 

[GreatBarracuda]

Ok. You just tell me what you meant to say with the following and I'll give you my opinion if you're interested. Because the following passage doesn't apply to anything being talked about in this thread.

Of course two wrongs don't make a right. I am all for peaceful protests. And yes, it is downright hypocritical to take a human life during a protest against the actions of those who don't seem to have any regard for human dignity!

I have seen firsthand the confusion and misconceptions that can arise with the malpractice of quoting scripture out of context. I just want people to be a little more careful in such matters.

Originally posted by: yllus
So remember the name of thy Lord and devote thyself with complete devotion -

Lord of the East and the West; there is no God save Him; so choose thou Him alone for thy defender -

And bear with patience what they utter, and part from them with a fair leave-taking.

Leave Me to deal with the deniers, lord of ease and comfort (in this life); and do thou respite them awhile.

73:9-11

I respect no hypocrite.

 

[0roo0roo]

they burned our flag..riot time..