R600 Delayed for simultaneous launch

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: liquid51
Well, not being a fanboy of either NV or ATI, and looking to upgrade soon (as in, when I actually have some options available), I'm going to be putting my money where the best offering lies. If ATI is late as hell and way behind the competition (which, they are), but can offer a higher performing card, then they'll get my money. I don't care about how much of the market they're losing this go around (because face it, AMD/ATI is NOT "finished"); their business practices are not my concern provided they can offer some competition. In that sense, ATI "wins" (at least my $600).

I understand this model doesn't work for the uninformed general public looking to buy a low-mid range product, or those who are impatient and need the best right now, or even if I was in the market for a high end part 3 months ago, but like I said: that's AMD's problem, not mine. You know there's plenty of [non NV fanboy] AT posters ragging on AMD/ATI over this debacle who will sell their 8800's in a heart beat if the r600 really is all they make it out to be (provided the 8900 doesn't slip out of NV's sleeve at an opportune moment )

I think anyone looking to buy a high end part would be a fool to purchase now and not sit this out, wait for the dust to settle.

Wait and sit it out huh? You're playing right into AMD's hand with that one.

Those who have been waiting and sitting out could have gotten a G80 and had the best card for eight whole months. Doesnt that piss you off just a little bit?

What about when Nvidia spoils R600 by releasing 8900GTX within a month of R600? AMD is going to say, "well R620 is just about ready to go" and people will sit here and say "Just sit and wait, AMD 's R620 is almost ready to go!".

Then we'll sit here for another six months before R620 actually shows up.

 

[liquid51]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: liquid51
Well, not being a fanboy of either NV or ATI, and looking to upgrade soon (as in, when I actually have some options available), I'm going to be putting my money where the best offering lies. If ATI is late as hell and way behind the competition (which, they are), but can offer a higher performing card, then they'll get my money. I don't care about how much of the market they're losing this go around (because face it, AMD/ATI is NOT "finished"); their business practices are not my concern provided they can offer some competition. In that sense, ATI "wins" (at least my $600).

I understand this model doesn't work for the uninformed general public looking to buy a low-mid range product, or those who are impatient and need the best right now, or even if I was in the market for a high end part 3 months ago, but like I said: that's AMD's problem, not mine. You know there's plenty of [non NV fanboy] AT posters ragging on AMD/ATI over this debacle who will sell their 8800's in a heart beat if the r600 really is all they make it out to be (provided the 8900 doesn't slip out of NV's sleeve at an opportune moment )

I think anyone looking to buy a high end part would be a fool to purchase now and not sit this out, wait for the dust to settle.

Wait and sit it out huh? You're playing right into AMD's hand with that one.

Those who have been waiting and sitting out could have gotten a G80 and had the best card for eight whole months. Doesnt that piss you off just a little bit?

What about when Nvidia spoils R600 by releasing 8900GTX within a month of R600? AMD is going to say, "well R620 is just about ready to go" and people will sit here and say "Just sit and wait, AMD 's R620 is almost ready to go!".

Then we'll sit here for another six months before R620 actually shows up.

Re-read the bold. Your post basically recapped what I just said. AT THIS POINT, I'm going to sit an wait it out.

And my god, who cares whose hand I've played into? I only want the best performing card for the money. What, are you the real winner because you didn't "play into AMD's hand"? And you should know that I've been an NV guy so far simply because I've liked what they've offered when I've been in the market. Sitting and waiting this out might mean that my patience will reward me with an 8900

edit: incase you didn't catch what I was saying, I'd be sitting on an 8800gtx now if I had been in the market even 2 months ago.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: liquid51
Well, not being a fanboy of either NV or ATI, and looking to upgrade soon (as in, when I actually have some options available), I'm going to be putting my money where the best offering lies. If ATI is late as hell and way behind the competition (which, they are), but can offer a higher performing card, then they'll get my money. I don't care about how much of the market they're losing this go around (because face it, AMD/ATI is NOT "finished"); their business practices are not my concern provided they can offer some competition. In that sense, ATI "wins" (at least my $600).

I understand this model doesn't work for the uninformed general public looking to buy a low-mid range product, or those who are impatient and need the best right now, or even if I was in the market for a high end part 3 months ago, but like I said: that's AMD's problem, not mine. You know there's plenty of [non NV fanboy] AT posters ragging on AMD/ATI over this debacle who will sell their 8800's in a heart beat if the r600 really is all they make it out to be (provided the 8900 doesn't slip out of NV's sleeve at an opportune moment )

I think anyone looking to buy a high end part would be a fool to purchase now and not sit this out, wait for the dust to settle.

well i obviously have been an ati fanboy ... that's what everyone said, anyway ...

the *issue* as i see it - is that AMD has *nothing competitive* and they are LYING to us and their investors by blowing a giant smokescreen in a [really] stupid attempt to conceal the *obvious* ... they are late and it is probably due to a HW problem [as they almost flatly deny ... notice they don't *actually* deny it although they DO "mention" it ... so they don't look even MORE stupid later - if that is possible]

clearly the investors aren't fooled ... their stock is taking a beating, the officers are selling their stock and they are doubling their common share - to prevent a hostile takeover in the future.

how much worse can it get?


AMD LOOKs *lost* ... like the series
:thumbsdown:

that "perception" is what KILLS a company ... people lose TRUST ... investors and partners defect

in *contrast* - if a company with real "marketing sense" - like nvidia - had a similar big problem we'd hear *NOTHING* ... zero ... zip ... zilch ... nada ... UNTIL they fixed it.

--that way it is better to "wonder" then to *know* something is seriously wrong in AMD-land

fire their marketing team and hire me ... i can still fix it

 

[liquid51]

Originally posted by: apoppin
well i obviously have been an ati fanboy ... that's what everyone said, anyway ...

the *issue* as i see it - is that AMD has *nothing competitive* and they are LYING to us and their investors by blowing a giant smokescreen in a [really] stupid attempt to conceal the *obvious* ... they are late and it is probably due to a HW problem [as they almost flatly deny ... notice they don't *actually* deny it although they DO "mention" it ... so they don't look even MORE stupid later - if that is possible]

clearly the investors aren't fooled ... their stock is taking a beating, the officers are selling their stock and they are doubling their common share - to prevent a hostile takeover in the future.

how much worse can it get?


the LOOK *lost* ... like the series
:thumbsdown:

in *contrast* - if a company with real "marketing sense" - like nvidia - had a similar problem we'd hear *NOTHING* ... zero ... zip ... zilch ... nada

that way it is better to "wonder" then to *know* something is seriously wrong in AMD-land

QFT - I do not disagree.

I also don't beleive that AMD is pulling out of the discrete video market, which means that SOMETHING is coming, and (lord, hopefully) within the next month or so. Those who can muster some patience and wait a bit longer, should (and again, lord I hope it's not too much longer, one can only have so much patience).

edit: ah, I should reiterate again, I'm not holding out specifically for the ATI card, paper benchies are worthless, as has been discussed. I'm waiting for the next big push is all. Waiting to see who'll be on top of the performance pile (for at least a few months).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: liquid51

Originally posted by: apoppin
well i obviously have been an ati fanboy ... that's what everyone said, anyway ...

the *issue* as i see it - is that AMD has *nothing competitive* and they are LYING to us and their investors by blowing a giant smokescreen in a [really] stupid attempt to conceal the *obvious* ... they are late and it is probably due to a HW problem [as they almost flatly deny ... notice they don't *actually* deny it although they DO "mention" it ... so they don't look even MORE stupid later - if that is possible]

clearly the investors aren't fooled ... their stock is taking a beating, the officers are selling their stock and they are doubling their common share - to prevent a hostile takeover in the future.

how much worse can it get?


the LOOK *lost* ... like the series
:thumbsdown:

in *contrast* - if a company with real "marketing sense" - like nvidia - had a similar problem we'd hear *NOTHING* ... zero ... zip ... zilch ... nada

that way it is better to "wonder" then to *know* something is seriously wrong in AMD-land

QFT - I do not disagree.

I also don't beleive that AMD is pulling out of the discrete video market, which means that SOMETHING is coming, and (lord, hopefully) within the next month or so. Those who can muster some patience and wait a bit longer, should (and again, lord I hope it's not too much longer, one can only have so much patience).

edit: ah, I should reiterate again, I'm not holding out specifically for the ATI card, paper benchies are worthless, as has been discussed. I'm waiting for the next big push is all. Waiting to see who'll be on top of the performance pile (for at least a few months).

we gotta *hope* ... i mean really ... the WORST thing is for AMD to be relegated to a minor player[period]

even the partners of AMD are asking other partners to *keep the faith*
:Q

should we ask God for a miracle? Prayer?
:shocked:



i got till next year to upgrade ... as it's been said before, AMD may have been in worse positions previously - although they were never dragging around BILLIONS of dollars in debt from a recent 'acquisition' - at any time in their previous history, they are resilient

but *never before* has AMD looked so STUPID when they tried to excuse their position.
... they *appear* desperate ... they are saying childish and bitter BS about their competition ... and that appearance - the way they are perceived - is a very bad thing in the business world.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: apoppin


--but evidently they succeeded with you

Found somebody to flame?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: apoppin


--but evidently they succeeded with you

Found somebody to flame?

You found something completely *worthless* to post, i see

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
I hope their midrange is good, I've never seen them as good buys

The only midrange cards that was good on it's time was the 9500 and 9600XT cards which smoked any FX 5600/5700 series, the X600 was a joke, the X700XT never came out, the X700PRO failed to outperform the 6600GT, (Only the X800GTO was able to acomplish it) the X1600PRO/XT (Puke) Only the X1650XT is the only midrange able to perform or outperforms by a very little margin its rival the 7600GT. The X1800GTO was behind of even the X850XTPE in the 65% of the games, and the X1950PRO and GT are qualified as the lowest of the high end which are doing a great job outperforming it's rivals from nVidialand.

 

[Gstanfor]

I think the mere fact that ackmed, 5150joker and most of the other more rabid fanatics have been conspicously absent/silent in the forum (if you really believe ackmed can't get 'net access to partake in discsussion I've a bridge i'd like to sell you) tells you everything you need to know. Even good old WaltC @ B3D has been unable to pull a R600 fantasy novel out of his ass (though he did sort of halfheartedly try briefly and it takes a lot to silence diahorrea mouth Walt).

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I think the mere fact that ackmed, 5150joker and most of the other more rabid fanatics have been conspicously absent/silent in the forum (if you really believe ackmed can't get 'net access to partake in discsussion I've a bridge i'd like to sell you) tells you everything you need to know. Even good old WaltC @ B3D has been unable to pull a R600 fantasy novel out of his ass (though he did sort of halfheartedly try briefly and it takes a lot to silence diahorrea mouth Walt).

That really added value to the discussion. Thanks for sharing, Grego.

 

[dug777]

I don't think AMD is in any danger of dying a horrible death because r600 is late

They're behind now, so what really?

If r600 kicks ass, they'll be right back in the GPU game, and clearly they're not going to release it until it does kick ass...

They've got the best current integrated solution, they've got a full range of cards that i assume are selling quite nicely to the unwashed masses (no doubt not as well as Nvidia, but since when did that mean they're going to go bankrupt?), and 'ATI' have got AMDs bank account to ride on. Sounds dreadful to me

 

[evolucion8]

I don't think they're that late, after all there's no DX10 games, only a couple of DX10 patched DX9 games that will be released soon and will not bring that much new in the graphics department. People says ATi is late because nVidia released a DX10 part sometime ago, but broken driver support, Vista released recently, I think that DAAMIT is in no danger of being "that late".

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I think the mere fact that ackmed, 5150joker and most of the other more rabid fanatics have been conspicously absent/silent in the forum (if you really believe ackmed can't get 'net access to partake in discsussion I've a bridge i'd like to sell you) tells you everything you need to know. Even good old WaltC @ B3D has been unable to pull a R600 fantasy novel out of his ass (though he did sort of halfheartedly try briefly and it takes a lot to silence diahorrea mouth Walt).

look at Dug777's fantasy interpretation [italics mine]

Originally posted by: dug777
I don't think AMD is in any danger of dying a horrible death because r600 is late

They're behind now, so what really?

If r600 kicks ass, they'll be right back in the GPU game, and clearly they're not going to release it until it does kick ass...

They've got the best current integrated solution, they've got a full range of cards that i assume are selling quite nicely to the unwashed masses (no doubt not as well as Nvidia, but since when did that mean they're going to go bankrupt?), and 'ATI' have got AMDs bank account to ride on. Sounds dreadful to me

letsee, AMD's stock is tanking ... the officers are selling their stock ... they are attempting to double the common stock to prevent a future takeover, nvidia is announcing their complete new lineup while AMD is stuck with x1900, intel is pushing ahead with their new CPUs at 45 micron while AMD is struggling with Barcelona at 65 ... and AMD is "attacking" their competitors for *unfairness* and pouring out a flood of conflicting FUD.
... sure - looks *fine* to me

of course ... if r600 *never kicks ass* in 07 ... then, what? and if Barcelona fails to impress ... we already have a *failure to launch* ... and don't expect AMD's competitors to be as lazy as they were the last 3 years

:roll:

nvidia is *kicking ass* in DX9 ... forget DX10 games

 

[Creig]

Is this all you do apoppin? "if", "if, "if"? Why do you feel this compulsive need to "if" everything to death? It's not going to change when the R600 gets released. It's not going to change when Barcelona gets released. It's not going to change either of their peformance numbers.

When we get more tidbits or leaks, that would be the appropriate time to analyze the information, compare it to previous data and either reaffirm old conclusions or construct new ones.

Simply sitting around saying "what if" all day long accomplishes nothing.



"What if" the Mods took away your ability to use Emoticons? :Q

 

[evolucion8]

The Barcelona core is a great improvement over the old K8 core, the only thing that is killing AMD in leading the technology it's incapacity to produce the latest in manufacturing technology, then is not able to stuff bigger caches in their CPU like Intel do, but appart of that, the Barcelona looks promising, but this is not an entirely new technology, is an improvement of the K8 architecture, like the C2D was from the P6 architecture. We shall see how it stacks against the C2D.

Barcelona will be a success for AMD; the long awaited architectural update to K8 should yield significant performance improvements, especially in current areas of weakness for the K8 (e.g. video encoding). Our review of the Athlon 64 X2 6000+ showed that with aggressive pricing, AMD could come close to offering something competitive to Intel. At current prices, we suspect that Barcelona would be enough to close the gap between AMD and Intel. Chances are that we won't see bargain basement prices on AMD's new cores, but we'd expect that AMD would have to maintain a competitive market.

The real catch here is what happens after Barcelona; as we mentioned before, Intel's current successes were born out of steady but regular evolution of a good starting architecture. With yearly updates to the Pentium M, Intel achieved a snowball effect that proved difficult to stop. It would seem that a similar approach by AMD would be necessary to avoid sticky situations like the one it finds itself in today.

Link: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2939&p=11

All the R600 speculations are invalid for me until I see information that can be confirmed. Until then, GeForce 8800GTX is the fastest AVAILABLE GPU on the market. We cannot put a 8800GTX against a Phanton R600.

 

[Ataraxia]

9800 Pro was good. Maybe not totally midrange, but it wasn't top.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Creig
Is this all you do apoppin? "if", "if, "if"? Why do you feel this compulsive need to "if" everything to death? It's not going to change when the R600 gets released. It's not going to change when Barcelona gets released. It's not going to change either of their peformance numbers.

When we get more tidbits or leaks, that would be the appropriate time to analyze the information, compare it to previous data and either reaffirm old conclusions or construct new ones.

Simply sitting around saying "what if" all day long accomplishes nothing.



"What if" the Mods took away your ability to use Emoticons? :Q

geeze ... that's what you do ... "If r600 kicks ass"
"IF ATi can get their card out"
"IF they are selling well"

'IF' you, too
:laugh:

and you are a genius in accomplishing *nothing*

you have nothing to say ... as usual ... nothing coherent
:thumbsdown:

yeah, AMD has a great CPU in Barcelona ... "IF" they can actually "make" it

on Paper it *looks* awesome ... like r600 ...

on Paper

Paper launches and confusing FUD from AMD is not helping their *behind* situation.

there is no "what if" about the 8800 series
--it *kills* the x1950xtx in DX9 games ...
forget "what if" in DX10

 

[josh6079]

I think the mere fact that ackmed, 5150joker and most of the other more rabid fanatics have been conspicously absent/silent in the forum (if you really believe ackmed can't get 'net access to partake in discsussion I've a bridge i'd like to sell you) tells you everything you need to know.

Or maybe they're doing, you know, what you buy the hardware for? Playing games?

By the same logic, don't you have some sort of business? What kind of traffic do you get if all you do is research on forums and fight online? Must not be very busy I guess (I wonder why...).

I'm sure I'm in your list of fanatics somewhere, you've called me it all too often. Yet I find myself actually playing games more than talking about their frame-rates. It's a novel idea G, but I understand your hesitation. Afterall, nVidia doesn't make games...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: josh6079

I think the mere fact that ackmed, 5150joker and most of the other more rabid fanatics have been conspicously absent/silent in the forum (if you really believe ackmed can't get 'net access to partake in discsussion I've a bridge i'd like to sell you) tells you everything you need to know.

Or maybe they're doing, you know, what you buy the hardware for? Playing games?

By the same logic, don't you have some sort of business? What kind of traffic do you get if all you do is research on forums and fight online? Must not be very busy I guess (I wonder why...).

I'm sure I'm in your list of fanatics somewhere, you've called me it all too often. Yet I find myself actually playing games more than talking about their frame-rates. It's a novel idea G, but I understand your hesitation. Afterall, nVidia doesn't make games...

playing games never stopped these guys before ... or "work"

come on

IF *i* were an ATi fanboy - with any sense, i'd 'lay low' - just like the nvidia guys did during the AEG scandal and "we" did during the ATi viral marketing scandal ..

some stupidity - like AMD's "excuses" are indefensible by thinking people

it takes only a couple of minutes for most of us to post a response
... another *coincidence* they are MIA? ... i think NOT

 

[Munky]

Why are so many people getting their panties wet just because a video card is late? Even the ones that have no intention of buying the r600? The 8800 series are selling for reasonable prices, should have bought that already if you really wanted an upgrade. And if Nvidia did not go under after nv30, then don't expect AMD to go under just because the r600 is late.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: munky
Why are so many people getting their panties wet just because a video card is late? Even the ones that have no intention of buying the r600? The 8800 series are selling for reasonable prices, should have bought that already if you really wanted an upgrade. And if Nvidia did not go under after nv30, then don't expect AMD to go under just because the r600 is late.

"just because it is late" ?

why is AMD in *full damage control mode* if it is "just" a late launch?

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: apoppin
geeze ... that's what you do ... "If r600 kicks ass"
"IF ATi can get their card out"
"IF they are selling well"

'IF' you, too
:laugh:

Please point out all these "if" comments I supposedly made. I've always preferred discussing facts (or at least plausible leaks) than to sit around playing your favorite game of "what if".

Originally posted by: apoppin
and you are a genius in accomplishing *nothing*

Look in a mirror.

Originally posted by: apoppin
you have nothing to say ... as usual ... nothing coherent
:thumbsdown:

Look in a mirror. TWICE.

The only things incoherent here are your scattered ramblings, broken sentence structures and ridiculous overuse of emoticons.

Originally posted by: apoppin
there is no "what if" about the 8800 series
--it *kills* the x1950xtx in DX9 games ...
forget "what if" in DX10

Agreed. At the moment, there is no compelling reason for a person in the market for a fast video card to wait for the R600. We don't know when it will be released, we don't know its performance relative to the 8800GTX, much less the 8900GTX, we don't know its power consumption, heat output, sound levels or its price.

 

[apoppin]

more 'IF' 'IF' from the fanboy

no substance ...

we *know* r600 is LATE

Dug777 is an "IFfer"

... ALL you fanboys are depending on the Biggest *IF* of all ...
"IF r600 is released"
:roll:

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: apoppin
more 'IF' 'IF' from the fanboy

no substance ...

we *know* r600 is LATE

Dug777 is an "IFfer"

... ALL you fanboys are depending on the Biggest *IF* of all ...
"IF r600 is released"
:roll:

Are you clinicially thick? YOU ARE THE ONE WITH ALL THE "IFS" IN THIS THREAD!!!!

Originally posted by: apoppin
IF AMD *doesn't* release r600 shortly, no one will CARE about the midrange

Originally posted by: apoppin
IF they were "ahead" we'd see some product

Originally posted by: apoppin
if r600 *never kicks ass* in 07

Originally posted by: apoppin
if Barcelona fails to impress

There, did you understand THAT? My God, it was easier getting through to ashkyat!

 

[n7]

Gawd why such speculation...

R600 will come out eventually; it'll perform well, & people will forget once again that delays are rather normal.