R9 290 vs GTX 770

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Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
On the 2GBvs4GB matter:
Even if 2GB is enough to run games for the whole time you planned to used the card, 4GB comes handy when it comes to resale.
Often times those last gen cards are sold to people going sli/xfire. I think more memory is definitely a huge plus. Who would go gtx580 SLI with 2x 1,5GB cards now? Anyone who keeps their cards more than 6 months will pick up 3GB version.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,496
6,556
136
2 options as I see it if you are considering a 2gb 770 vs a 4gb 290.

Wait for later to get aftermarket 290's or now get the 290 and the accelero extreme III cooler to put on.

If you upgrade GPU's every year then the 2gb 770 may make sense now, but if you like to use your GPU for 2+years then get the 290 one way or the other.

This
 

hjalti8

Member
Apr 9, 2012
100
0
76
When the next gen games come out and our 2GB cards are choking it is because the GPU is simply not fast enough, not because of the ram.

High res textures have very little impact on framerate but they have a huge impact on IQ and they will eat up your vram.


It is utterly baffling how many people are still on about 2GB not being enough in the future.
this reminds me of the alleged 640k bill gates quote :thumbsup:



From my own testing Rome 2 can use over 3gb vram @1440p. Skyrim can easily pass 2gb with high res textures, even at lower resolutions. According to sweclockers BF4 can cause problems for 2gb cards @1440p.

Some engines also detect how much vram you have and automatically downscale textures if needed.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
On the 2GBvs4GB matter:
Even if 2GB is enough to run games for the whole time you planned to used the card, 4GB comes handy when it comes to resale.
Often times those last gen cards are sold to people going sli/xfire. I think more memory is definitely a huge plus. Who would go gtx580 SLI with 2x 1,5GB cards now? Anyone who keeps their cards more than 6 months will pick up 3GB version.

This makes a lot of sense, because SLI 580 3GB today is still a very fast gaming rig, whereas SLI 580 1.5GB would struggle in newer games.

I had not thought about resale value, but I've always recommended people who go multi card to opt for a higher vram model since SLI or CF will extend the gaming life of that GPU for a long time.
 

Piklar

Member
Aug 9, 2013
109
0
41
That all depends on what resolution you are planning on gaming at. At 1080 2GB is going to be fine.

True true, guess Im thinking 4K Ultra HD memory requirements as affordable mainstream 4K displays may very well may be the norm by mid to late next year when manufacturers like Seiki bring out their models with HDMI 2.0 and the Koreans get their hands on affordable 4K panels.

Also Oculus Rift is coming and it will change the way a lot of us approach gaming as gamers will want their minimal FPS to be at least the refresh rate of the two displays and with maxed settings which makes the 290 a far better option than the 770.

I would wait for aftermarket cooling for a 290 as many have pointed out if you can wait a few more weeks?

The way I see it by mid to late next year we will look at 2GB cards the same way we look at the limitations of 1GB of ram on cards today.
 
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dnut_00

Member
Nov 20, 2013
66
0
66
I must say that for "normal" people this thread is utterly confusing.

I, lately and due to unexpected budget addition , decided to may be spring for MSI GTX 770 2GB (Gaming TF edition), which is quite an investment.

Considering resolution of 1900x1200 and no obsessive desire to play on absolute maximum settings of all games now and in the next 2 - 3 years - how safe I am, future proofing wise?

...I see claims that buying 770 today is pretty silly and such...
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
I must say that for "normal" people this thread is utterly confusing.

I, lately and due to unexpected budget addition , decided to may be spring for MSI GTX 770 2GB (Gaming TF edition), which is quite an investment.

Considering resolution of 1900x1200 and no obsessive desire to play on absolute maximum settings of all games now and in the next 2 - 3 years - how safe I am, future proofing wise?

...I see claims that buying 770 today is pretty silly and such...

I don't know if I understand you right, but if so, go for hd7950 or R9-270X and save some $. If you don't care about maxing AA, these cards will handle games very well and let you keep a portion of your budged for future upgrade - 20nm in a year or so.
 

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
40
86
I must say that for "normal" people this thread is utterly confusing.

I, lately and due to unexpected budget addition , decided to may be spring for MSI GTX 770 2GB (Gaming TF edition), which is quite an investment.

Considering resolution of 1900x1200 and no obsessive desire to play on absolute maximum settings of all games now and in the next 2 - 3 years - how safe I am, future proofing wise?

...I see claims that buying 770 today is pretty silly and such...

If you theoretically purchased a 7950/7970/280x/280/290/290x, you will most likely have driver issues within 2 years. This has historically been the case with AMD/ATi's support of their legacy cards. GCN has been in service since January 9, 2012. 2 years from now is November 24, 2015. That is a span of 3 years, 10 months, 16 days. The historical perspective is the Radeon HD 5xxx series. That series launched at September 10, 2009. Today it is 4 years, 2 months, 14 days old, and it has been having massive driver issues since at least last year.

That is the conundrum between purchasing AMD/ATi and Nvidia for the long term holders. AMD/ATi drivers turn to utter trash far faster, but Nvidia cards are designed to obsolete themselves by VRAM size.

I would >>still<< be using my GTX 460 if it wasn't stuck with 768mB RAM, however if I had purchased a 5xxx series I would have been screwed by the drivers far before the GTX 460's 768mB ram severely hindered operation.
 
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24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
40
86
Is hd4000 series affected by the issues aswell? I would love to know so I upgrade two rigs with those cards in my home to prevent any unpleasant experience.

Where you took if from?
Btw, My sig

Go rhetorical question somewhere else. This is a end user help and support thread, not a troll thread.

Tip to the uninitiated. I know one of us here isn't paid for their posts.
<<-===== This guy.

AMD/ATi is known to populate this forum with viral marketers. Durvelle is just one example.

A large segment of this forum wouldn't dare sign a legal document declaring them not AMD/ATi Viral Marketers for fear of FCC fines and imprisonment. And most people on this forum know who they are.
 
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Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
Go rhetorical question somewhere else. This is a end user help and support thread, not a troll thread.

And based on my experience with hd4000 series cards, I don't have any problems running new games (other than low fps ).
About 6 months ago I played torchlight 2 on radeon hd2600pro without any issues (aside from low fps).

You say radon have cards have hd5000 have massive driver issues, is it your experience, or is it: I read internet so I know it?
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
If you theoretically purchased a 7950/7970/280x/280/290/290x, you will most likely have driver issues within 2 years. This has historically been the case with AMD/ATi's support of their legacy cards. GCN has been in service since January 9, 2012. 2 years from now is November 24, 2015. That is a span of 3 years, 10 months, 16 days. The historical perspective is the Radeon HD 5xxx series. That series launched at September 10, 2009. Today it is 4 years, 2 months, 14 days old, and it has been having massive driver issues since at least last year.

You say such things as if they were facts and not just your biased opinions.

I have a 5850 in another rig for the wife, and it plays all the games I do fine, with lower details.
 

dnut_00

Member
Nov 20, 2013
66
0
66
I don't know if I understand you right, but if so, go for hd7950 or R9-270X and save some $. If you don't care about maxing AA, these cards will handle games very well and let you keep a portion of your budged for future upgrade - 20nm in a year or so.

Now this is an interesting suggestion.

I assume by upgrades you mean replacing the GPU, not going SLI/Crossfire, right?

So, how long do you think will HD7950 or R9-270X would serve me, time-wise, before new games are absolutely unplayable on high-ish settings?

P.S. I must say that drivers explanation confused me, so may be there is an answer there, but I just I couldn't get it.
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
If you theoretically purchased a 7950/7970/280x/280/290/290x, you will most likely have driver issues within 2 years. This has historically been the case with AMD/ATi's support of their legacy cards. GCN has been in service since January 9, 2012. 2 years from now is November 24, 2015. That is a span of 3 years, 10 months, 16 days. The historical perspective is the Radeon HD 5xxx series. That series launched at September 10, 2009. Today it is 4 years, 2 months, 14 days old, and it has been having massive driver issues since at least last year.

FYI the legacy cards now are up to Ati radeon 7xxx series. Non of the HD series are legacy yet. /OT

Now this is an interesting suggestion.

I assume by upgrades you mean replacing the GPU, not going SLI/Crossfire, right?

So, how long do you think will HD7950 or R9-270X would serve me, time-wise, before new games are absolutely unplayable on high-ish settings?

P.S. I must say that drivers explanation confused me, so may be there is an answer there, but I just I couldn't get it.

Yes, I thought about keeping up with the current gen in high middle class GPU where the best perf/$ is. That way you can play new games on very high settings, and don't have to suffer lower details if you were to upgrade every 2-3 years.

HD7950 will serve about the same time 770 would. There is little difference between those cards when it comes to performance.

I'm not suggesting multi-GPU configs for anyone, because I would go for the single latest tech card with lower performance over faster dual last-gen setup.

Everything depends on how often you want to upgrade. If you really want to forget about having to upgrade GPU in 2-3 years, go for r9-290. With this card you don't have to worry that games will need more than 2gb vram, it have some serious core performance and you get sound co-processor aswell!

tl dr: I wouldn't get 2gb card with futureproofing for 2-3 years in mind
 
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Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
So you're saying the 770 is slow and using that statement to defend the card. Congratulations, I guess? :thumbsup:

I remember people making the same statement when the 6950 and 6970 came out and had 2GB. Thank god I didn't fall for that then, or I wouldn't have put nearly as many hours into Skyrim modding as I've had.

That is not at all what I'm saying. It is too slow to really use more than 2GB though (except in SLI which is the only time one should ever consider a 4gb 770). My self-righteous ranting is spurred by people telling folks to not get a 770 2gb and instead saying to look for the 770 4gb if they want green team, or that the 770 2GB is somehow a broken card with that little ram. Which is absurd advice because in gaming requiring more ram both versions choke about equally anyway (aka, too slow) and the price premium makes either the 280x or the 290 look miles better.

I owned a 6970, it was a fine card for the price. But it did not age any differently than the 570 or 580 for the games most people play. Both the 570 and 580 beat it in BF4 at every resolution, more ram or not. The sweoverclockers review linked in this thread even includes minimums of which the 480/580 both have better numbers than a 6970. Those class of cards are too slow for the extra ram to matter (again, most of the time).

People (ok, me) are making too much fuss about this. More ram is useful sometimes for certain things, but for a general buyer it is not worth the mark up that comes along with it for otherwise identical cards. The 290 and 280 have more ram than their competition, this is a plus that should be considered, but it is not worth nearly as much as people seem to think unless you are a dedicated modder.

For what is at this time the third from the top tier of cards price and performance should matter far more. Even with high resolution textures (unless I am vastly mistaken on my assumptions for how high they will go in the next year) you will likely not notice a difference between 2 through 4gb on a 760 through 280 kind of card at 1080p for the foreseeable future. When games start shipping with that kind of textures as an in box option other graphics settings will likely be present to make the card you own weep.

There is no such thing as future proofing. There is only buying the best card you can afford today. No matter what you buy you will in a years time be faced with either upgrading or lowering settings, the more you spend the longer out that may be.

That being said, of course a 280x is better for BF4. Even if it cost a bit more cash it performs better and will support mantle. It very likely won't age any differently than a 680/770 (akin to 580 vs 6970) in non mantle games though.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
can i set the max fan speed to be lower than default? thus making this thing quieter at the cost of performance (i guess it will hit the thermal threshold sooner and thus sacrificing performance)

Yes, you could do that. The 290s aren't nearly as loud of people would have you believe, though they do run hot. A 290 with a 47% fan speed, the max at default, isn't as loud as people claim. I have the max fan speed on my 290X set for 60%, with target GPU temp of 85C, and the fan isn't audible through the case until it hits 50% fan speed, and not annoying until it hits 55%. It'll sit at 20% when idle, not even audible at all.

Given how fast the Arctic Cooling VGA coolers sold out, everyone buying them for 290s, waiting until the AIB coolers arrive would be a good move. Gives AMD more time to move the Catalyst drivers out of Beta status for Hawaii too. Regardless, the 290 will easily outperform the GTX 770 and easily rival the 780.
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
I've come across this one:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-8.html

and it seems as if 770 outperforms in value/dollar.

I don't claim to understand all the implications, but how your earlier suggestion fits here?

This is a weird way to show it...
Here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/R9_270X_HAWK/28.html

7950 gives 30% more frames for each 1$, than 770.
Next year you upgrade to new $250 GPU and you are back in (master) race again.

Saying that 770 has too weak core to push 2gb is... naive. Go play modded skyrim and see 3GB of memory gone. The other way to look at it is: New consoles will have more vram than your card. You don't want it to happen when you think about keeping your card for half of console lifespan! I expect a spike in graphics memory usage as soon as last-gen consoles are ditched
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
Saying that 770 has too weak core to push 2gb is... naive. Go play modded skyrim and see 3GB of memory gone. The other way to look at it is: New consoles will have more vram than your card. You don't want it to happen when you think about keeping your card for half of console lifespan! I expect a spike in graphics memory usage as soon as last-gen consoles are ditched

That's a specific example though, and I'm not denying that fringe usage situations exist that might make someone want to spend more on VRAM or pick a card with that in mind. I don't mean to say that the 770 is particularly slow, just that its relative scaling with other cards (which have more ram) does not change even up to 4K, indicating that for the majority of games the graphics load balance is such that there is no VRAM amount bottleneck before something else slows things down.

Looking at the data as a whole, there are very few cases where the RAM makes even a one or two FPS difference and in the majority of those cases the card (770) is unplayable anyway. That is all I mean by too slow in general, that more often than not when it wants more RAM than that it can't keep up.

I'm sure as we move forward more and more games will show a difference because of the VRAM, but I don't think it will be a big difference (and thus not worth fussing over) until well after the games demand far more oomph anyway. I don't believe, though could be wrong, that games are going to make a huge push forward in texture resolution without other increases to slow down your fps as well.
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
I'm sure as we move forward more and more games will show a difference because of the VRAM, but I don't think it will be a big difference (and thus not worth fussing over) until well after the games demand far more oomph anyway. I don't believe, though could be wrong, that games are going to make a huge push forward in texture resolution without other increases to slow down your fps as well.

Looking at the consoles we are bound to for the next (at least) 5 years, we have relatively weak gpu core (7850 level) and quite a big memory pool - about 4gb for graphics alone! For reference 7850 comes with 2GB (1GB aswell).

Core speed is not necessarily tied to vram usage:
 

ozzy702

Golden Member
Nov 1, 2011
1,151
530
136
If you theoretically purchased a 7950/7970/280x/280/290/290x, you will most likely have driver issues within 2 years. This has historically been the case with AMD/ATi's support of their legacy cards. GCN has been in service since January 9, 2012. 2 years from now is November 24, 2015. That is a span of 3 years, 10 months, 16 days. The historical perspective is the Radeon HD 5xxx series. That series launched at September 10, 2009. Today it is 4 years, 2 months, 14 days old, and it has been having massive driver issues since at least last year.

That is the conundrum between purchasing AMD/ATi and Nvidia for the long term holders. AMD/ATi drivers turn to utter trash far faster, but Nvidia cards are designed to obsolete themselves by VRAM size.

I would >>still<< be using my GTX 460 if it wasn't stuck with 768mB RAM, however if I had purchased a 5xxx series I would have been screwed by the drivers far before the GTX 460's 768mB ram severely hindered operation.

The above sure is ironic with the problems NVIDIA has caused for 200/400/500 series cards with their past few drivers.
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
Looking at the consoles we are bound to for the next (at least) 5 years, we have relatively weak gpu core (7850 level) and quite a big memory pool - about 4gb for graphics alone! For reference 7850 comes with 2GB (1GB aswell).

Core speed is not necessarily tied to vram usage:

I mean you could very well be right, I frankly don't know how games will move forward. But even given the consoles I would be very surprised if we saw an extreme change in textures while a stagnation in everything else. But I've certainly been wrong before (lots). These consoles are going to be a while before they really push the limits of what they can do.

I expect the load on gpus to evolve more evenly. shrug
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
1,408
0
0
Go rhetorical question somewhere else. This is a end user help and support thread, not a troll thread.

Tip to the uninitiated. I know one of us here isn't paid for their posts.
<<-===== This guy.

AMD/ATi is known to populate this forum with viral marketers. Durvelle is just one example.

A large segment of this forum wouldn't dare sign a legal document declaring them not AMD/ATi Viral Marketers for fear of FCC fines and imprisonment. And most people on this forum know who they are.

 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,735
329
126
I must say that for "normal" people this thread is utterly confusing.

I, lately and due to unexpected budget addition , decided to may be spring for MSI GTX 770 2GB (Gaming TF edition), which is quite an investment.

Considering resolution of 1900x1200 and no obsessive desire to play on absolute maximum settings of all games now and in the next 2 - 3 years - how safe I am, future proofing wise?

...I see claims that buying 770 today is pretty silly and such...

In all reality, you'd enjoy the 770 just as much as any other card. The 2GB is not going to limit you in 2-3 years, especially since you said you have no desire to play at absolute max and at 1200p.
 

Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
1,253
2,321
136
If you theoretically purchased a 7950/7970/280x/280/290/290x, you will most likely have driver issues within 2 years. This has historically been the case with AMD/ATi's support of their legacy cards. GCN has been in service since January 9, 2012. 2 years from now is November 24, 2015. That is a span of 3 years, 10 months, 16 days. The historical perspective is the Radeon HD 5xxx series. That series launched at September 10, 2009. Today it is 4 years, 2 months, 14 days old, and it has been having massive driver issues since at least last year.

That is the conundrum between purchasing AMD/ATi and Nvidia for the long term holders. AMD/ATi drivers turn to utter trash far faster, but Nvidia cards are designed to obsolete themselves by VRAM size.

I would >>still<< be using my GTX 460 if it wasn't stuck with 768mB RAM, however if I had purchased a 5xxx series I would have been screwed by the drivers far before the GTX 460's 768mB ram severely hindered operation.

As a GTX 460 user who's getting constant nvlddmkm errors while simply browsing the internet using any driver newer than 314.22 WHQL (that's 13 versions ago!) I find this post amusing.
 
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