Ranting about antiwar protests

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novon

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,711
0
0
Top Ten Reasons
Why the US Should Not Invade Iraq
Global Exchange
August 27, 2002 (updated November 12, 2002)

This document
is also available
as a PDF (103kb)


The White House is set to launch a war against Iraq. Yet there has been no convincing explanation of why a war is needed. The international community is strongly opposed to a US attack on Iraq, leaving the United States with few real allies. A full-scale war against Iraq would isolate the US from the rest of the world, undermine the effort against terrorism, and senselessly kill tens of thousands of civilians. The Bush Administration is determined to initiate an illegal and ill-considered invasion. We the people must be just as determined to stop a war that threatens to tear the world apart.

1) There Is No Justification for Going to War.

What was Iraq's act of aggression against us that justifies war? There has been no attack on the US, no Iraqi threat of war, no Iraqi connection to September 11.

War should be a last recourse of self-defense, a step to be taken only when all other alternatives have been exhausted. What the Bush Administration is planning is an act of aggression, not an act of self-defense. The international coalition that fought the first Gulf War was cemented by the principle that one country cannot invade another without provocation. Now the White House is poised to dismiss the coalition to launch an unprovoked invasion of Iraq. This would violate the US's historic policy against using force preemptively. We should not go to war against a distant country that has not attacked us.

2) Iraq Does Not Pose a Clear and Present Danger

The White House says we should invade Iraq to prevent Saddam Hussein from using weapons of mass destruction. But during the 1990s United Nations weapons inspectors dismantled all of Iraq's major chemical, biological and nuclear weapons facilities and destroyed nearly all of Iraq's weapons and long-range missiles. In terms of conventional arms, Iraq's military is now at one-third of its pre-Gulf War strength. According to Ex-Marine and former UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter, Iraq presents "absolutely nothing" of a military threat. And given Hussein's natural desire for self-preservation, it is highly unlikely he would launch any attack that would result in his destruction. Since deterrence is working, why should the US start a bloody war that would undoubtedly lead to massive human suffering?

3) When It Comes to Invading Iraq, the US Has Few Allies

The international community supports sending weapons inspectors to Iraq to disarm Saddam Hussein's regime, but it does not support the White House's goal of "regime change." Many countries in the Middle East are opposed to a war with Iraq. Our allies in Europe think an invasion is foolhardy. Anti-war marches in England and Italy have drawn hundreds of thousands of people. An invasion of Iraq would isolate the US from the rest of the world and shatter the principles of international cooperation and mutual defense that are key to US and global security.

4) An Attack on Iraq Would Make Us Less Safe

An isolated US is an unsafe country. Attacking Iraq without provocation will ignite anti-American sentiment around the world, disrupting efforts to weaken terrorist networks. Any attack would also further destabilize a Middle East already inflamed by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. While the benefits of invading Iraq are murky, the costs are all-too-clear.

5) A Costly Invasion Would Take Resources Away from Much Needed Priorities at Home

This is a war of choice, not a war of necessity. And it's a poorly thought out choice, one that will distract from the social problems here at home. It is estimated that any full-scale invasion of Iraq will cost up to $200 billion. During the first Gulf War, allies like Japan covered 80 percent of the cost. This won't happen again, leaving US taxpayers?already facing budget deficits?to pick up the costs. Instead of spending $200 billion on an unnecessary war, we should be investing in our nation's overcrowded schools and failing health care system.

6) Invading Iraq Would Be Extremely Difficult?and Without a Clear Victory

An invasion of Iraq will not be nearly as easy as kicking the Taliban out of Kabul. Although Hussein's army has been weakened, Iraq's forces remain large enough to put up a formidable defense. And it is likely that Iraqi forces will be far more determined to defend Baghdad than they were to defend Kuwait City, dragging US forces into a bloody fight in heavily populated areas. And even if the US does overthrow Hussein, what next? As the experience in Afghanistan shows, throwing out a government is easier than putting a new one together. An invasion without allies would leave the US to enforce a peace in a chaotic country fractured by ethnic conflicts.

7) A War Would Kill Thousands of People

An assault on Baghdad would result in far more American casualties than the war in Afghanistan. And the toll on Iraqis would be far higher. According to an estimate by Physicians for Social Responsibility, a full scale invasion of Iraq could lead to the deaths of as many as 80,000 innocent civilians, or approximately 100 times the number of people killed during the US bombing of Afghanistan.

8) We Should Not Wage a War for Oil

The Bush Administration says we must invade Iraq because Saddam Hussein has violated UN Security Council resolutions, is abusing his own people, and pursuing weapons of mass destruction. Yet the US supports the nuclear-armed dictator of Pakistan and provides billions of dollars in aid to the governments of Turkey and nuclear-armed Israel, both of which are in violation of multiple UN resolutions. The blatant double standard makes one wonder: What is this war really about? The short answer is oil. Iraq has the second largest proven reserves of petroleum, and US oil companies, which exercise immense influence over the current administration, are eager to tap into Iraqi oil. This is wrong. We should not attack people in a far-off country to take their resources.

9) Other Options Besides War Are Available

When North Korea announced that it was close to constructing a nuclear weapon, the Bush Administration didn't threaten war?instead, it started cooperating with our allies in Asia to defuse the situation. The North Korean experience shows a way of dealing with weapons of mass destruction and proves that negotiations are preferable to war. If the White House's end goal is to enhance our security, then dialogue is preferable to conflict.

10) Opposition to the War Is Growing

Americans know deep down that this impending war makes no sense. According to recent polls, 40 percent of Americans are against a war with Iraq.

Our task is to turn the public's latent misgivings into blatant opposition. If the citizens say loud and clear that we don't want a war against Iraq, it will be more difficult for the president to go through with his scheme. We have to educate our fellow citizens about why war with Iraq is wrong, and then hold our elected representatives accountable to the will of the people.

Please contact the White House today and say you don't want the US to invade Iraq. The White House switchboard is 202-456-1111 and the fax number is 202-456-2461. For information about what you can do to stop the White House's planned war against Iraq, contact Global Exchange at 1-800-497-1994 or peace@globalexchange.org, or visit our website at www.globalexchange.org.
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I have no problem with those who protest the upcoming Military adventure it seems we are headed for with Iraq. I want to hear all sides on this issue as I'm a bit wary about any hostilities that could impact our Nation and the world as a whole for the next ten years or so. I've heard compelling arguments for attacking Iraq and I've heard compelling arguments for holding off for a bit. Right now as it stands the arguments for holding off for a bit seem to make more sense to me but I can be swayed if I hear a convincing argument that immediate action is needed because waiting for another 8 or so months will put us as a nation in harms way.

What I have heard is a bunch of BS from either side of this issue, you know, people calling each other War Mongers or Draft Dodgers. Of course all they've convinced me of is the fact that they are Morons.

One of the best posts I've seen in these threads, ever.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,267
126
Yeah, it's those damned Jews. We were talking about this at the last Klan meatin' .
 

WinkOsmosis

Banned
Sep 18, 2002
13,990
1
0
Originally posted by: BlueEyedBeezlebub
I dont know how many of you have been reading about the protests that have been going on against the war but I am going to be organizing counter protests in my area that are pro war. Its time those of us who despise draft dodgers from the vietnam era and the weak ones who are afraid to do what we have to do now hear our voice. Sad thing is these days the popular opinion is against me (which is ok with me), honor, chivalry, and duty to ones nation is dead in our country.

Its also said that the media is ignoring these protests, and for good reason.. alot of the media is jewish owned, this war will get all support from liberal jews, conservative jews, all other conservatives.. the only ones left out will be the liberal whites who want to protest everything for mostly political hatred of their enemies initiatives and ideas or fear of sending their children off to battle.
Most of their children are scared, but I'm 21 years old and think the war and draft is a good thing. In fact I think from age 18-20 in this country mandatory military service should be required!! Mostly for a wake up call so we respect our freedom and how important it is to maintain.

I think that those who protest just do so to relive or regain some spirit of the 60s.. it was justified in those times but now some would protest even if we were being attacked on our own soil. And if this nation is ever attacked on our own soil, as powerful as we are now.. and our enemys got that far, it would be all over.

So counter protest the protesters if you have the motivation!

Wow you're full of crap. Maybe you should move to China, where the government is always right.
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
76
Originally posted by: Zakath15
I've yet to gaze upon an honorable flock of sheep.

Damn straight.

I like that!

Just because Bush is itching to go to war isn't enough to convince me. We have inspectors in there right now. Why not let them do their job?

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
BlueEyedBeezlebub -- What a pile of crap! You're old enough to know better, but obviously, you didn't pay attention in your history and civics classes. You're also way too young to know diddly squat about the 60's or the issues that were involved.

In the 60's, we were dealing with Viet Nam. I will say this once, and I hope you understand. The U.S. was WRONG to be there. Our own government lied to us about why we were there and what was really happening. Today, almost anyone with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight can see that, but at the time, it took protesters and courageous news people to get the truth about it out.

That isn't to say there is no justification for war. Hitler showed us that sometimes, you stand to lose more by not fighting than by doing so. We were right to fight the Nazi's in WW II. Before the U.S. joined the battle, we had a horrible history of ignoring the plight of the Jews in Nazi dominated Europe. FDR even turned away Jewish refugees and sent them back to Europe.

Read what Red Dawn posted for more of my feelings about it. Personally, I think your post shows more balls than brains. Since it's just a computer forum, I have no way of knowing about how much balls really exists behind the bullroar. For all of your rant, remember, you only get dead once. You'd better think it through and know whatever reason you have for dying, it better be worth it.
 

michaelh20

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
482
0
0
Personally I am against a war with Iraq & I am appalled by how easily this country can ignore how many Iraqi civillians and troops *may* (who knows, it might not be so terrible) die as a result.

That said, some of the far left are pretty well "out there" with the rantings about it just being about oil. But if you look carefully at the crowd of people speaking out against the war (and I think they are not really a majority, but a sizeable crowd none the less) you'll see quite a few ordinary people, including conservatives, religious organizations and other rather mainstream people. I think most sensible people out there realize there is really something to be concerned about here and that the evidence and motivation for war, at least in as far as what has been actually revealed to the world, has been quite thin. No one really knows what Bush et al. are looking at and they haven't gone to any great effort to show the world whatever their evidence is. Lots of talk, little evidence.
 
Oct 30, 2002
149
0
0
I agree that the US was wrong to be there (in vietnam). I would have been against it too but would have gone if my nation called upon me.. I would have maybe even gone to college or whatever to delay that but I couldnt live the rest of my life knowing that i moved to canada or something like that to avoid a call to duty. But for me thats a personal pride issue and probably a flaw.

I dont think its being one of the 'flock' to follow your leader, you percieve it that way. Some people 'flock' to this leader or that leader but then who ISN'T a member of some flock? Basically like everyone knows, if you stand for nothing you'll fall for anything and this is one of the times when its hard to stand up.

As far as balls and brains, I will admit I have always looked up to my grandpa for what he did in WW2.
To the gentleman who commented on my 'jewish media' reference.. I am not antisemetic if it came across that way but alot of media companies are owned by jewish people. I know disney is and probably cnn and others, and thats ok but the point being that most jewish people, conservative and liberal are going to be for this war. I have some good jewish friends myself.
My view is the arabs have been bombing israel and targeting women and children, much like they did on 9/11.. israel does not go around attacking non military installations. Thats why I'm for israel.. they shouldnt have to live in fear and neither should we.
But honestly I dont think that this 'war' has any chance of being quelled by some naked hippys spelling out NO WAR on the side of a mountain. The 60s are over and there is no unjust war. They just found nuclear warheads in Iraq, but I promise you if they found 20,000 nuclear weapons in Iraq that people would still protest in mass numbers, again proving its simply because its Bush and its a republican initiative.. which seems to be the only party these days with initiative at all.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,586
762
136
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
What kind of fvcktard starts a rally in favor of war???? Jesus tap dancin' Christ

LOL

It's just appalling how rapidly and far public opinion can be swayed. Who would have thought we would ever endorse a policy of "first strike" when we feel threatened.

Ditto Novon's Top Ten Reasons.
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
What kind of fvcktard starts a rally in favor of war???? Jesus tap dancin' Christ


The same kind that is not a member of the armed forces, and complains about the "jew-owned media."
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,652
6,219
126
It's sad really when people don't flock around someone who can't find an excuse for war, damn reason, cursed truth, always shooting the excuse down! The Supreme Court appointed Moron is the Voice of the Nation, to disagree is downright Anti-American. Damn Traitors!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,110
6,610
126
BlueEyed, I think it's a real shame you are taking so much heat here. It's the wrong kind. I really agree with your sentiments. But I can suggest better ways to draw attention to your cause. Back when those cowardly hippies were screwing all the cute girls while the real men were at war, the people with spine over in Viet Nam who were the true anti-war people with real beliefs in the right of their cause, like you, were pouring gasoline on themselves and setting themselves on fire in public demonstrations. That's the way you should show your commitment to your country if you're as sincere as you claim to be. Go out and burn yourself up to support Bush and the war.

By the way, the local liberal radio hosts in San Francisco were up in arms about the school teach-in's one sided approach to truth and war. They went on and on about education being a dialogue that requires looking a all sides of an issue. That's what creates liberals in the first place.
 

Kerouactivist

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2001
4,665
0
76
Originally posted by: BlueEyedBeezlebub
I dont know how many of you have been reading about the protests that have been going on against the war but I am going to be organizing counter protests in my area that are pro war. Its time those of us who despise draft dodgers from the vietnam era and the weak ones who are afraid to do what we have to do now hear our voice. Sad thing is these days the popular opinion is against me (which is ok with me), honor, chivalry, and duty to ones nation is dead in our country.

Its also said that the media is ignoring these protests, and for good reason.. alot of the media is jewish owned, this war will get all support from liberal jews, conservative jews, all other conservatives.. the only ones left out will be the liberal whites who want to protest everything for mostly political hatred of their enemies initiatives and ideas or fear of sending their children off to battle.
Most of their children are scared, but I'm 21 years old and think the war and draft is a good thing. In fact I think from age 18-20 in this country mandatory military service should be required!! Mostly for a wake up call so we respect our freedom and how important it is to maintain.

I think that those who protest just do so to relive or regain some spirit of the 60s.. it was justified in those times but now some would protest even if we were being attacked on our own soil. And if this nation is ever attacked on our own soil, as powerful as we are now.. and our enemys got that far, it would be all over.

So counter protest the protesters if you have the motivation!


Wow your dumb,

 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
By the way, the local liberal radio hosts in San Francisco were up in arms about the school teach-in's one sided approach to truth and war. They went on and on about education being a dialogue that requires looking a all sides of an issue. That's what creates liberals in the first place.


LOL. So your definition of looking at all sides of an issue and being a liberal includes suggesting that someone you don't agree with set themselves on fire?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,652
6,219
126
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
By the way, the local liberal radio hosts in San Francisco were up in arms about the school teach-in's one sided approach to truth and war. They went on and on about education being a dialogue that requires looking a all sides of an issue. That's what creates liberals in the first place.


LOL. So your definition of looking at all sides of an issue and being a liberal includes suggesting that someone you don't agree with set themselves on fire?

Hehehe, makes perfect sense! I think Moonie was drawing attention to Blues invoking of the 60's Antiwar protest/ProWar situation, so no, he does not advocate people who disagrees with him to burn!
 

WinkOsmosis

Banned
Sep 18, 2002
13,990
1
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
BlueEyed, I think it's a real shame you are taking so much heat here. It's the wrong kind. I really agree with your sentiments. But I can suggest better ways to draw attention to your cause. Back when those cowardly hippies were screwing all the cute girls while the real men were at war, the people with spine over in Viet Nam who were the true anti-war people with real beliefs in the right of their cause, like you, were pouring gasoline on themselves and setting themselves on fire in public demonstrations. That's the way you should show your commitment to your country if you're as sincere as you claim to be. Go out and burn yourself up to support Bush and the war.

By the way, the local liberal radio hosts in San Francisco were up in arms about the school teach-in's one sided approach to truth and war. They went on and on about education being a dialogue that requires looking a all sides of an issue. That's what creates liberals in the first place.

Damn bleeding hearts and their looking at both sides of an issue! Not to mention their history education. Damn colleges teaching history to our kids and making them liberal!!
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Damn bleeding hearts and their looking at both sides of an issue! Not to mention their history education. Damn colleges teaching history to our kids and making them liberal!!

From what I have seen, it is the people that take the time to research both sides and fully understand the context and history of past actions that are less likely to be "liberal".
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
By the way, the local liberal radio hosts in San Francisco were up in arms about the school teach-in's one sided approach to truth and war. They went on and on about education being a dialogue that requires looking a all sides of an issue. That's what creates liberals in the first place.


LOL. So your definition of looking at all sides of an issue and being a liberal includes suggesting that someone you don't agree with set themselves on fire?

Hehehe, makes perfect sense! I think Moonie was drawing attention to Blues invoking of the 60's Antiwar protest/ProWar situation, so no, he does not advocate people who disagrees with him to burn!

1. Don't try to insult anyone's intelligence here by claiming that you do any thinking. It is very clear from the things you post here that you do very little thinking.

2. Moonbeam is more than capable of answering the questions directed to him.
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
14
81
I think the root of the problem is the lack of any defined enemy. "Terrorists" is way too broad, it's not like we're attacking a single country whose leadership has started a war with us. We can't find the terrorists themselves, and actually doing so makes it look like we are stepping on the sovereignty of the countries they "seem" to be located in. Bush is trying to fight a traditional war against a non-traditional enemy, and it isn't going to work. I'm sure that Iraq is lead by a "bad" person, but I don't think we're going about this fight against terrorism the right way. If there were clear battlefields and defined enemies, we could've had this war won 6 months ago. But it isn't, and it wasn't. I don't really know what to do next.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: etech
Damn bleeding hearts and their looking at both sides of an issue! Not to mention their history education. Damn colleges teaching history to our kids and making them liberal!!

From what I have seen, it is the people that take the time to research both sides and fully understand the context and history of past actions that are less likely to be "liberal".
If you were a Liberal I believe you'd say the opposite. SInce you are a staright Forward Cinservative we can only take your above statment in that context.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: etech
Damn bleeding hearts and their looking at both sides of an issue! Not to mention their history education. Damn colleges teaching history to our kids and making them liberal!!

From what I have seen, it is the people that take the time to research both sides and fully understand the context and history of past actions that are less likely to be "liberal".
If you were a Liberal I believe you'd say the opposite. SInce you are a staright Forward Cinservative we can only take your above statment in that context.

If I were a liberal and did the research that I have, I wouldn't be a liberal anymore. I think I have only seen one liberal on this board that actually has a solid grasp of history and world events.

 
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