Ranting about antiwar protests

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etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Something I haven't seen the anti-war protestors address.

Iraq is still under UN sanctions. Should those sanctions be lifted while Saddam is still in control of Iraq?

What is the most likely thing he would do with billions of dollars of oil revenue?

Speculation, yes it is, play along for awhile and give it your best guess. Would he immediatly set about feeding his people and building up the infrastructure of Iraq by building more schools and hospitals or would he be more likely, based on his past history, to buy some new toys on the black market?
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,954
3,262
136
As far as news, I find Fox News to my liking the best. I dont find them as conservative as maybe I would like them to be but not bad at being fair and balanced as they advertise. I believe they are doing really well too in attracting a audience.

how can you trust anyone that has an x10 ad on their website ?

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
76
Originally posted by: friedpie
Originally posted by: flavio

You claimed that the that "the protesters this weekend were by and large anti-capitalists/socialist, and yes, communists. Anti Semitic, Anti White, also" which anyone with half a brain would know was complete bullshit posted by some sort of fanatic.

I thought I would give you the chance to add some sort of proof to what you posted and of course there is none. In fact you don't even seem to understand the concept. You give me some links about this Clark guy and more to some wacko fanatical ultra conservative site like Front Page. None of this really does anything to prove the statement "the protesters this weekend were by and large anti-capitalists/socialist, and yes, communists". This seems to indicate that not only are you a nutcase but you also lack simple understanding of logic.

I think you ignore the basic idea that the protestors are really just anti war on Iraq.


The organizers of the protest are known communists and anti american leftists. You can deny that all you want. One reason they organize these rallies is to help them recruit people into their ideology. They will use good intentioned people as what Lenin termed "useful idiots." Sure, not everyone there was a communist, or hates America, but they were the organizers, and they were there in force. Just because CNN or the NY Times didn't report doesn't mean it's not true. That's what FPM does, they report the things the liberal media is afraid to report. I realize that doesn't fit into your ideology, and that is just fine with me, but you have no right to dish out names like some little brat.



What a nice boy


I'm not going to take the word of some website that caters to fanatical right wing nutjobs as proof of some communist conspiracy. Come up with something from an unbiased source and maybe we can have a conversation.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,965
278
126
Originally posted by: etech
Iraq is still under UN sanctions. Should those sanctions be lifted while Saddam is still in control of Iraq?

What is the most likely thing he would do with billions of dollars of oil revenue?

Yes, actually. Lifting the sanctions lifts the last stranglehold of resources that Saddam controls within his country, the standard of living. His regime thrives on an outside threat. Lift that threat and his whole regime implodes. That is the thing about dictatorships, lose the reason they have their leader and the leader no longer has anyone else to blame.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: MadRat
Originally posted by: etech
Iraq is still under UN sanctions. Should those sanctions be lifted while Saddam is still in control of Iraq?

What is the most likely thing he would do with billions of dollars of oil revenue?

Yes, actually. Lifting the sanctions lifts the last stranglehold of resources that Saddam controls within his country, the standard of living. His regime thrives on an outside threat. Lift that threat and his whole regime implodes. That is the thing about dictatorships, lose the reason they have their leader and the leader no longer has anyone else to blame.

Do you honestly think lifting the sanctions will cause his regime to collapse?!?! Listen, rocket scientist, he came to power in 1979, and UN sanctions weren't even imposed until 1991. He's going to stay in power with or without sanctions. It will take force, and force alone, to remove him. His own people are way too scared to do anything. He's already demonstrated a clear willingness to use chemical, biological, and traditional weapons on his own people and members of his own family in order to remain in power.

A non-American left-winger's assessment:

What appears to be beyond the grasp of many of my comrades in the Left is the scale and scope of a modern totalitarian regime such as Hussein's. It is truly ? to use Iraqi dissident Kanan Makiya's eloquent term ? a republic of fear. It is a police state which conducts its ruthless totalitarian control through more than 100,000 secret police. It is a regime which treats its populace with complete contempt ? consider the recent humiliation dealt to the Iraqi people by Hussein's referendum. And it is an outlaw state that has acted in continuous violation of the disarmament conditions of the post-Kuwait ceasefire in 1991.

Full story
here.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: MadRat
Originally posted by: etech
Iraq is still under UN sanctions. Should those sanctions be lifted while Saddam is still in control of Iraq?

What is the most likely thing he would do with billions of dollars of oil revenue?

Yes, actually. Lifting the sanctions lifts the last stranglehold of resources that Saddam controls within his country, the standard of living. His regime thrives on an outside threat. Lift that threat and his whole regime implodes. That is the thing about dictatorships, lose the reason they have their leader and the leader no longer has anyone else to blame.


You're kidding me right? Please, please read this article.

Political power in Iraq


Iraqi Intelligence Agencies
 
Oct 30, 2002
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Interesting article. I dont think lifting sanctions will help anything either.

If you actually sit down and investigate, read the site you might find its not for 'right wing nutjobs'. Those with an open mind might something of use, unless you believe the evening news doesnt have any left wing slant or choose to hide certain news from you.
You odviously dont know what a fanatical right winger is, because theres none of those here. I'm pro-israel and pro-diversity, somethings that are not associated with the extreme right wing.

Some of you sound not only anti american but very anti semite.. both the israelis and americans have very good reason to join in arms against the terrorists and saddam.

-blue eyed needledick (creative!)

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
76
Originally posted by: BlueEyedBeezlebub

If you actually sit down and investigate, read the site you might find its not for 'right wing nutjobs'. Those with an open mind might something of use

You gotta be kidding me! One of the 3 "featured items" in their store is a book called "Why the Left Hates America" and there's articles like "LEFTIST LIES". If you're looking for some sort of unbiased news from this site you're as big a wacko as they are.

 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
The American people are tired of being lied to and manipulated by the media and their own government.
 
Oct 30, 2002
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No one said its unbiased. We all know and I dont think this needs reiterated, but what and who that is human, is not biased in one way or another.
But that doesnt mean theres not valid information worth reading and taking into account from the site.
As others have said, you get a much better 'dose' of leftish propaganda in your mainstream media than anything else.

I find it peculiar and interesting myself that generally it seems the right wing is siding with Israel while the left is obsessed with appeasing the true murderers. I mean, it seems strange considering the Arabs want to take us down with Israel, while doing so they target civilians in their cowardly rampages. While the arab individuals pull that stuff off, their arab governments gas their own people, suppress all free speech that isnt pro government or anti american.
Sounds to me like the great satan isnt the problem and neither are the jews. They are the mess and should be helped out by given a chance to self rule. I think thats the only way to finding peace.

I'm just glad the whole america wants to rule iraq issue was dropped by you liberals in this thread, that was ludicrious.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: BlueEyedBeezlebub
I find it peculiar and interesting myself that generally it seems the right wing is siding with Israel while the left is obsessed with appeasing the true murderers. I mean, it seems strange considering the Arabs want to take us down with Israel, while doing so they target civilians in their cowardly rampages. While the arab individuals pull that stuff off, their arab governments gas their own people, suppress all free speech that isnt pro government or anti american.
Sounds to me like the great satan isnt the problem and neither are the jews. They are the mess and should be helped out by given a chance to self rule. I think thats the only way to finding peace.
That hust sounds like bad reporting to me.

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
76
Originally posted by: BlueEyedBeezlebub
No one said its unbiased. We all know and I dont think this needs reiterated, but what and who that is human, is not biased in one way or another.

Yeah, I have no interest in "news" from a site that promotes biased reporting. The regular conservative biased news in the mainstream is bad enough.

I find it peculiar and interesting myself that generally it seems the right wing is siding with Israel while the left is obsessed with appeasing the true murderers.

I find it peculiar that you don't stop spewing ludicrous crap. The majority of Americans and the rest of the world simply don't support this first-strike agenda that Bush is on.



 

Kraeji

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 1999
2,092
0
0
these anti-war folks need to shut the hell up.. blind moronic protesting of just war makes no sense
 
Oct 30, 2002
149
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ok buddy its odvious you are never going to change your views.. considering you find the mainstream media 'conservative', then that means you are what? Stalins chosen successor? anyone who finds the left leaning media conservative by their measure is a Red, no doubt!
My point was, all news are biased.. I was suggesting something new for ya.

First strike agenda????? Wow.. I guess this thread could go on and on with liberals who dont realize when they've been put in there place, but I believe between the government sponsored terrorism, the human rights violations, multiple other reasons by many other posters in this thread have outlined for you doesnt make Bush on a 'first strike agenda'. Just trying to get inspectors in so they can do their job.

BTW, ignorant is not defined by me, I have a view, that seems to coincide with alot of great men on this board. You define ignorance by not reading and giving that website a chance, ignorance is not knowing about or refusing to know (in your case) the other side and then attempting to assume some kind of opinion based on IGNORANCE.

Throw me any liberal site or article, be happy to read it and tell you exactly why its BS.. if its not bs i'll read it and say that too.. but refusal to investigate more than one pleasing side is a crime towards your intelligence.

If you've been reading my posts, you might find I've already outlined how intolerant our socalled 'liberals' are. Case in point.

I tire of this thread and will be pulling out of it. Go protest with your buddies on how america wants to rule iraq
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,965
278
126
Lifting all sanctions would be dumb, but nonetheless some are good. I didn't say what sanctions to lift.

Selectively lifting the sanctions could be interesting. Allowing them open trade in junk food, soda, and video games will bring their youth to a grinding halt! There are some military weapon systems that actually are a drain on the larger military force, too. Allowing him to buy T-54 tanks to replace those mangled T-72s from the Gulf War and such would quickly strap him of cash. Let him buy Russian automobiles, Soviet-era artillery shells, Polish farming tractors, and Italian motorcycles, too. Giving him access to VIA computer processors, South Korean running shoes, and Chinese MiG-17s would also drain him. Giving him open access to the most inefficient and frustrating equipment would be one helluva punishment. The military value of some euipment is counter-productive when thrown even against marginal opponents.

There was a time when the U.S. would smuggle in typewriters and printing presses to countries like Iraq. I don't think this war is much about freedom as it is about making an example out of Saddam. Its to the point that they cannot even allow an exilt to take place, the whole regime has to come down. The problem, like I said earlier, is that the whole region becomes politically unstable.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
Originally posted by: chizow
Bah, I deal with these tree-hugging hippies every other week protesting one thing or another. Makes my commute worse....would like nothing more than to turn them into hood ornaments.

I find it particularly ironic when they come and bitch about the World Bank and IMF. These tree-huggers are out and about on a WORKDAY bitching about being impoverished!!! Its like...hmm...maybe if you spent 1/2 the energy you spent protesting and got a job, your outlook on life would be a bit different....anyways.....I guess I wouldn't really care if they protested on some island in the South Pacific...just my luck I happen to live in the nation's capitol.

Chiz

Are you advocating murdering people because you disagree with their political views?

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
1
76
Originally posted by: BlueEyedBeezlebub
considering you find the mainstream media 'conservative', then that means you are what? Stalins chosen successor? anyone who finds the left leaning media conservative by their measure is a Red, no doubt!

Anyone who considers the mainstream media "liberal", then that means you are what? Hitler's chosen successor? David Duke's son? Anyone who finds the right leaning media liberal by their measure is a Fascist and a Klan member, no doubt!

First strike agenda????? Wow.. I guess this thread could go on and on with liberals who dont realize when they've been put in there place, but I believe between the government sponsored terrorism, the human rights violations, multiple other reasons by many other posters in this thread have outlined for you doesnt make Bush on a 'first strike agenda'. Just trying to get inspectors in so they can do their job.

Inspectors doing their job is fine. i encourage that. But you were advocating invading, not just letting inspectors do their job. I guess this could go on with conservatives who don't realize when they've been put in their place.

BTW, ignorant is not defined by me, I have a view, that seems to coincide with alot of great men on this board.

I have a view shared by the majority of the U.S. and the world.

You define ignorance by not reading and giving that website a chance, ignorance is not knowing about or refusing to know (in your case) the other side and then attempting to assume some kind of opinion based on IGNORANCE.

You define ignorance by wasting your time with self-proclaimed one-sided biased "news".

If you've been reading my posts, you might find I've already outlined how intolerant our socalled 'liberals' are. Case in point.

If you've been reading my posts, you might find I've already outlined how intolerant our socalled 'conservatives' are. Case in Point-> Assuming that anyone who doesn't love the idea of war is a 'liberal' and a 'communist'.

You run from this thread and will be pulling out because your bs is showing. Go frolic with your buddies on how Americans should just start killing and sort it out later.


 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,967
140
106
NewsMax journalists Christopher Ruddy and Carl Limbacher have a blockbuster new book published on September 11, 2002.

It?s called Catastrophe: Clinton?s Role in America?s Worst Disaster - and tells the real story of 9/11 - the one the big media are afraid to report.

Catastrophe begins on January 20, 1993, when William Jefferson Clinton took the oath of office as the 42nd president of the United States of America. Clinton swore to ?preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States? from enemies both foreign and domestic.

During the next eight years, Bill Clinton would preside over the most corrupt administration in American history. He would be only the second president in American history to be impeached.

When Bill Clinton took office, American supremacy on the world stage had never been so great and unchallenged. Our military was without equal. The economy was beginning a record boom.

Soon after Bill Clinton left office, Americans began to discover his bitter legacy.

Even as Clinton was leaving Washington, the American economy had begun to move into a serious recession.

And America?s belief in invulnerability was shattered on September 11, 2001, when 19 Arab hijackers slammed civilian jets into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

As Catastrophe: Clinton?s Role in America?s Worst Disaster demonstrates, the events of September 11 not only were predictable after eight years of Clinton, but they also could have been prevented.

Catastrophe exposes what really happened during the Clinton years, and how Bill Clinton and his administration systematically undermined America?s national security by emasculating the U.S. military and the nation?s intelligence agencies.

Bill Clinton made America vulnerable to attack.

Here are just some of the revelations from Catastrophe:

Clinton?s own admission that he could have extradited Osama bin Laden from Sudan - but he didn?t because he felt bin Laden was not a threat! If you don?t believe this, read his verbatim comments from our exclusive tape recording!
A senior CIA officer goes on record to reveal that Bill Clinton helped Saddam Hussein by allowing him to illegally sell oil - and make billions to stay in power.
Clinton adviser Dick Morris says that Clinton was warned about the terrorist bombings against American troops at the Khobar Towers - and he ignored the warning!
The FBI and CIA could have easily foiled the 9-11 attacks - but were negligent as two known terrorist gained entry into the U.S. with the CIA?s full knowledge. They would later participate in the 9-11 attacks.
FBI agent Coleen Rowley says the FBI could have prevented 9-11, but refused to get a search warrant on one of the 9-11 terrorists.
NewsMax broke the story that Bill Clinton tied the hands of the CIA and FBI - hear from agents on the inside who broke the story on NewsMax and reveal what really happened.
Bill Clinton refused to require driver?s licenses to expire at the time of expiring visas. If he had done this, one of the 9-11 terrorists would have been arrested or deported.
The 1996 Clinton-Gore airline safety commission set the stage for 9-11.
Why Clinton?s adviser Dick Morris says Bill Clinton?s affair with Monica Lewinksy helped Osama bin Laden survive and plot 9-11
Read Bill Clinton?s shocking statements about America?s guilt in 9-11 - he even blamed America for 9-11 and cited our treatment of the Indians and Muslims during the Crusades!
A secret 1994 terrorism report warned of suicidal hijackings - and Bill Clinton ignored ...
 

MinorityReport

Senior member
Jul 2, 2002
425
0
0
Originally posted by: IGBT
NewsMax journalists Christopher Ruddy and Carl Limbacher have a blockbuster new book published on September 11, 2002.

It?s called Catastrophe: Clinton?s Role in America?s Worst Disaster - and tells the real story of 9/11 - the one the big media are afraid to report.

Catastrophe begins on January 20, 1993, when William Jefferson Clinton took the oath of office as the 42nd president of the United States of America. Clinton swore to ?preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States? from enemies both foreign and domestic.

During the next eight years, Bill Clinton would preside over the most corrupt administration in American history. He would be only the second president in American history to be impeached.

When Bill Clinton took office, American supremacy on the world stage had never been so great and unchallenged. Our military was without equal. The economy was beginning a record boom.

Soon after Bill Clinton left office, Americans began to discover his bitter legacy.

Even as Clinton was leaving Washington, the American economy had begun to move into a serious recession.

And America?s belief in invulnerability was shattered on September 11, 2001, when 19 Arab hijackers slammed civilian jets into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

As Catastrophe: Clinton?s Role in America?s Worst Disaster demonstrates, the events of September 11 not only were predictable after eight years of Clinton, but they also could have been prevented.

Catastrophe exposes what really happened during the Clinton years, and how Bill Clinton and his administration systematically undermined America?s national security by emasculating the U.S. military and the nation?s intelligence agencies.

Bill Clinton made America vulnerable to attack.

Here are just some of the revelations from Catastrophe:

Clinton?s own admission that he could have extradited Osama bin Laden from Sudan - but he didn?t because he felt bin Laden was not a threat! If you don?t believe this, read his verbatim comments from our exclusive tape recording!
A senior CIA officer goes on record to reveal that Bill Clinton helped Saddam Hussein by allowing him to illegally sell oil - and make billions to stay in power.
Clinton adviser Dick Morris says that Clinton was warned about the terrorist bombings against American troops at the Khobar Towers - and he ignored the warning!
The FBI and CIA could have easily foiled the 9-11 attacks - but were negligent as two known terrorist gained entry into the U.S. with the CIA?s full knowledge. They would later participate in the 9-11 attacks.
FBI agent Coleen Rowley says the FBI could have prevented 9-11, but refused to get a search warrant on one of the 9-11 terrorists.
NewsMax broke the story that Bill Clinton tied the hands of the CIA and FBI - hear from agents on the inside who broke the story on NewsMax and reveal what really happened.
Bill Clinton refused to require driver?s licenses to expire at the time of expiring visas. If he had done this, one of the 9-11 terrorists would have been arrested or deported.
The 1996 Clinton-Gore airline safety commission set the stage for 9-11.
Why Clinton?s adviser Dick Morris says Bill Clinton?s affair with Monica Lewinksy helped Osama bin Laden survive and plot 9-11
Read Bill Clinton?s shocking statements about America?s guilt in 9-11 - he even blamed America for 9-11 and cited our treatment of the Indians and Muslims during the Crusades!
A secret 1994 terrorism report warned of suicidal hijackings - and Bill Clinton ignored ...


Where is the Troll Hat ?

You deserve one ..............
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,965
278
126
You mean the asshat, not the troll hat. Either way, alot of these points are not exclusive to that book. They are grumblings in the public sector to support those supposedly wild accusations. Yes, real people are blaming the Clinton administration for causing 9/11 with the way they stripped accountability out of the government. Wait, did that really start with Clinton?? Seems like it started with George... No, not George Bush - I meant another George. The president has always been the lightning rod for scandals in his midst. Lets face it, there are alot of sleazy business people out there asking for exclusive deals from the government and always will be.
 
Dec 4, 2002
18,211
1
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Originally posted by: Queasy
Ahhh...let the hippies get naked and free their minds.

What is more disturbing to me is the so-called "Teach-Ins" that were held in the Bay area of California that brought in lecturer after lecturer for school age children from 1st to 12th grade. They called it an open discussion about the possibilities of war in Iraq and something to educate children and spark debate. Well, there wasn't much debate. Every single lecturer they lined up was AGAINST going to war in Iraq and against America. The bay area school council said they couldn't find a single speaker to come out for America and for a war in Iraq. I call BS on that one. Sounds more like forced indoctrination to me.

california public schools you say? your surprised b/c???
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,954
3,262
136
Even as Clinton was leaving Washington, the American economy had begun to move into a serious recession.

the economy does go up and down but it is the current administration to make sure or do everything in thier power to make sure it does not slip to bad. tell me this what did to make sure that the economy did not slip.... nothing

And America?s belief in invulnerability was shattered on September 11, 2001, when 19 Arab hijackers slammed civilian jets into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

so clinton was head of what division during that time.... nothing. gwb needs to take some responsiblity for once. not taking responsiblty has the mentality of a child.

btw i got a speeding ticket last year... i know i am going to blame clinton.

 
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