Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[moinmoin]

Raptorlake improvements:
-Improved Intel 7 process with greater than 50mV reduction at the same frequency, 200MHz increase at the same voltage, and 600MHz increase in clocks at peak
-Machine learning prefetcher for the L3 allows INI caching scheme. INI = Inclusive/Non Inclusive, and it can switch between the two on the fly depending on the needs in 200us times. Was in Alderlake but didn't get used. Sounds like what Raichu was talking about regarding "secret sauce"? Though that was about Golden Cove.
-L2 cache in the E cores also use machine learning to improve prefetching. Performance improves from 2% in some circumstances to 16% in others.
-Fabric frequency increased by 900MHz to 5GHz. Apparently in leaks it said 4.6GHz with E cores active?
-The improvement with caching and prefetchers along with caches allow E cores to perform just like the original Skylake.

Sounds like all of that could be foundry and microcode improvements that could be applied to existing ADL die masks? Then all the rebranding would actually be more than that and the new RPL die simply adds more cache and other silicon level optimizations on top.

 

[majord]

Performance Index 13th Gen Intel® Core™ Desktop Processors

Intel® Core™ (14th Gen) Desktop Processors - 2 | Performance Index

edc.intel.com

Looks like the 12900k is running 4800 DDR5 vs 5600 for 13900k . so the differences in gaming at least might be slightly lesser if they were apples to apples

 

[nicalandia]

13900HK vs 12900HK

Dell Inc. XPS 15 9520 vs SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD. 960XFH - Geekbench

browser.geekbench.com

 

[Exist50]

13900HK vs 12900HK

View attachment 68311

Dell Inc. XPS 15 9520 vs SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD. 960XFH - Geekbench

browser.geekbench.com

If it's actually "stepping 2", that would imply different silicon than Alder Lake.

 

[nicalandia]

The Official Website is Up with details.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/series/230485/13th-generation-intel-core-i9-processors.html

 

[Carfax83]

Raptorlake improvements:
-Improved Intel 7 process with greater than 50mV reduction at the same frequency, 200MHz increase at the same voltage, and 600MHz increase in clocks at peak
-Machine learning prefetcher for the L3 allows INI caching scheme. INI = Inclusive/Non Inclusive, and it can switch between the two on the fly depending on the needs in 200us times. Was in Alderlake but didn't get used. Sounds like what Raichu was talking about regarding "secret sauce"? Though that was about Golden Cove.
-L2 cache in the E cores also use machine learning to improve prefetching. Performance improves from 2% in some circumstances to 16% in others.
-Fabric frequency increased by 900MHz to 5GHz. Apparently in leaks it said 4.6GHz with E cores active?
-The improvement with caching and prefetchers along with caches allow E cores to perform just like the original Skylake.

Was this information in the presentation?

 

[IntelUser2000]

Was this information in the presentation?

Yes, not all are in the slides and you have to listen to them, or was something that was asked by the interviewer.

Little more:
-Thread Director is overhauled with Windows 11 2022H2 release. Better handling of foreground vs background tasks using machine learning
-New Dynamic Tuning Technology feature in mobile with improved core parking techniques

I should also clarify that the max fabric frequency is 5GHz. They just say all core turbo for fabric goes up by 900MHz.

For the E cores the all core turbo goes up by 600MHz. Meaning same Turbo peak for both ST and MT.

Ok, so 900MHz ACT increase for fabric making it 5GHz makes sense. Alderlake with all cores active, it's limited by the Turbo frequency of the E cores or 4.1GHz. That's a pretty decent improvement. Intel themselves said 5% improvement in gaming.

This addresses bulk of the Alderlake hybrid issues. Just like what Ticks do.

(4.6GHz was from the early leaked benchmark so I guess we can disregard that)

 

[nicalandia]

Remember how Intel "Accidentally" Leaked the Raptor Lake info in the Intel Canadian website and then blocked it?

Well it's Up again.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/resources/gaming-cpu.html

 

[moinmoin]

Remember how Intel "Accidentally" Leaked the Raptor Lake info in the Intel Canadian website and then blocked it?

Well it's Up again.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/resources/gaming-cpu.html

View attachment 68312

Wish Intel would include the info whether an ADL or RPL die is used.

 

[jpiniero]

If it's actually "stepping 2", that would imply different silicon than Alder Lake.

I suppose it's possible that the 6+8 U/P mobile is technically using Raptor Cove but didn't get the cache increase.

 

[IntelUser2000]

"Raptor Cove" is Intel 7 Ultra(internal naming) process plus additional caches and prefetcher improvements.

The only part you can change without using a new die is the prefetcher algorithm. So you won't get the peak clock increase, you won't get the cache increase and you won't get the perf/watt increase.

 

[jpiniero]

The only part you can change without using a new die

The Processor ID does say that it is a different Model entirely.

 

[nicalandia]

It's been confirmed by Sisoftware Sandra that The i5 13400 is Also using a rebranded Golden Cove configuration.

13th Gen Intel Core i5-13400 6C + 4c 20T 2.5 4.6 GHz, 7x 1.25 MB L2, 20MB L3)

Details for Result ID 13th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13400 (6C + 4c 20T 2.5千兆赫（GHz）/4.6千兆赫（GHz）, 7x 1.25兆字节（MB） L2, 20兆字节（MB） L3)

ranker.sisoftware.co.uk

According to Geekbench the rebranded CPUs are

13900HK and 13700H are
GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 186 Stepping 2

The 13400 is
GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 183 Stepping 1

The Processor ID does say that it is a different Model entirely.

Perhaps it's a refresh of the core like Lucienne was to Renoir Both are Zen2 based but have different models and code-name.

 

[mikk]

It's been confirmed by Sisoftware Sandra that The i5 13400 is Also using a rebranded Golden Cove configuration.

Maybe both.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1573681209552490496

 

[nicalandia]

Maybe both.

No, thats just a Bad Reading on Geekbench5. Its reading the e core cache config

Not the first time Geekbench5 would missread Raptor Lake

Look at this entry


And compare it to this one


Pay attention to L1 and L2, identical, but L2 reads 2 MiB because the Gracemont cores on ADL have 2MiB of shared L2

 

[mikk]

No, thats just a Bad Reading on Geekbench5. Its reading the e core cache config

Not the first time Geekbench5 would missread Raptor Lake

It's not a misread, CPU ID confirms it's Raptor Lake.

GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 183 Stepping 1

 

[nicalandia]

It's not a misread, CPU ID confirms it's Raptor Lake.

GenuineIntel Family 6 Model 183 Stepping 1

Its Raptor Lake no question about it. Its the Core uArch we are talking about here. The 13500, the 13900HK and the 13700H are using Golden Cove cores which have 1.25 MiB of L2 Cache. The missread its the fault of Geekbench its reading the e core cluster cache config

 

[Carfax83]

 

[BorisTheBlade82]

According to THW Intel accidentally showed a wafer with unannounced 34 all-p-core RTL dies.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intels-unannounced-34-core-raptor-lake-cpus-displayed-on-wafer

 

[IntelUser2000]

@BorisTheBlade82 I saw that. Like WTF?!

Not only that it's a monolithic 34 core! This must be the rumored monolithic Sapphire Rapids. Why call it Raptorlake though? It has almost nothing in common with it.

At a possible >700mm2 die it'll disprove any doubt about Intel 7 process.

 

[Exist50]

@BorisTheBlade82 I saw that. Like WTF?!

Not only that it's a monolithic 34 core! This must be the rumored monolithic Sapphire Rapids. Why call it Raptorlake though? It has almost nothing in common with it.

At a possible >700mm2 die it'll disapprove any doubt about Intel 7 process.

Probably isn't actually Raptor Cove, unless it's a bizarre early look a refresh, but rather the much-awaited Sapphire Rapids monolithic die. And with a full 8 memory channels too.

Here's another thought. Consider a monolithic 34c MCC die. It would be huge, yes, but doable, and reasonably bin-able to <=32c high volume SKUs, without fussing with SNC or the like.

Probably worth posting that in the lakes/rapids thread as well. Makes more sense than clustered with the actual Raptor Lake stuff.

 

[Tup3x]

Raptor Lake pricing is very competitive. No future but if one needs to build a system now and doesn't plan to upgrade anytime soon, the total cost is not bad at all.

If possible it would be good idea to skip first gen AM5 CPUs and also wait for next gen Intel CPUs. Intel changes sockets like socks so I'm not that worried about their platform. Hopefully things are smoother with AM5 then with AM4. It took loooong time for them to fix USB issues (my external HDD still seems to have some issues).

 

[Kocicak]

If Intel did some improvements just by updating a microcode, they could and should update the microcode for existing Alder Lake CPUs as well.

 

[Henry swagger]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574812532816084995

The process is being squeezed to the last drop of performance 🙂

 

[DrMrLordX]

I'm curious about that bit. Is it rebranded Alder Lake, or Raptor Lake without the increase in L2? Not that it makes much of a difference either way, but still.

Others beat me to it but that would mean another set of masks for yet another variation of Raptor Lake. Raptalder Lake? Whatever you would call it. It would be a waste of resources. It really does look like Intel just rereleased Alder Lake on mobile.

Intel has stated there will be desktop Meteor Lake bins, whats uncertain is whether there will be high end Meteor Lake desktop parts. For Intel’s sake that would be good, though I’m not optimistic given the talk of clock speed regressions and that the largest leaked part is 6P+8E.

Intel can surprise us with an 8+16 or 8+32 or 12+16 Meteor Lake package any day now. Until they do that we should temper our expectations of what Meteor Lake-S holds in store for the enthusiast market.