Rathergate

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: irwincur
I'm just waiting for the idiots at the DNC to come out and reveal the 'originals'... saved on a floppy disk.

LOL. That is pretty funny considering the floppy disk was invented in 1971. :roll:

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

... STFU

The best advice we can receive is that which we freely give out.

*plonk*

 

[Ornery]

Lawyer: Burkett to Sue CBS

You're STILL missing the big picture! As your next president rides off into the sunset, to start his next four years, Rather will STILL be getting grilled about being so obviously and unprofessionally biased. By the 3rd of November 2004, nobody will give a damn about what Bush did 30 years ago, and Rather will STILL be twisting in the wind.

Close the topic? HAH! It's only just begun... :laugh:

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
LMAO, talk about OT. I do not apologize for stating the TRUTH as I see it. If you disagree, take it to PM with me. Otherwise STFU

Maybe it is time to close this thread since CBS has recanted on the story. This whole thread is going nowhere. How about it mods? Isn't "Rathergate" a dead issue now?

:roll: No, the "story" isn't over. As I pointed out yesterday there is plenty about this story yet to be figured out. It seems other news organizations agree with me - ABC, FOX, and etc. They are all following up on this -especially the part about kerry's staffer calling buckett. Hmmm....

And no, dncBS hasn't "recanted" - they(blather especially) seem to continue to think the docs and the story are true - all they've done is apologize for airing it with the unproven docs. There is much more to this story now and it'll continue until the originals are found and all the trails to the DNC/kerry are researched. As it sits now - nothing is "settled" and it seems that more questions are raised any time one of the "players" in this story opens their pie hole.

CsG

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: irwincur
I'm just waiting for the idiots at the DNC to come out and reveal the 'originals'... saved on a floppy disk.

LOL. That is pretty funny considering the floppy disk was invented in 1971. :roll:

And even more funny considering these memos were supposed to be done by a typewriter.

 

[burnedout]

CBS producer on thin ice after Guard story?

AP via Seattle Post

[...]

John Carlson, a former commentator at KIRO-TV who is host of a conservative radio talk show in Seattle, remembers Mapes as a talented producer with whom he often argued politics in the newsroom.

Mapes was "quite liberal" and disliked the current President Bush's father, he said.

"She definitely was someone who was motivated by what she cared about and definitely went into journalism to make a difference," Carlson said. "She's not the sort of person who went into journalism to report the news and offer an array of commentary."

Carlson spoke with Mapes about the National Guard story a week ago, and said that he believes she "put so much time into it that she wanted something to come of it."

"This was a woman with a good reputation," he said. "The mistakes she made were so obvious. This was a story that was rushed because they clearly believed it was true. They wanted it to be true."

[...]

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: irwincur
I'm just waiting for the idiots at the DNC to come out and reveal the 'originals'... saved on a floppy disk.

LOL. That is pretty funny considering the floppy disk was invented in 1971. :roll:

And even more funny considering these memos were supposed to be done by a typewriter.

You missed the point.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: irwincur
I'm just waiting for the idiots at the DNC to come out and reveal the 'originals'... saved on a floppy disk.

LOL. That is pretty funny considering the floppy disk was invented in 1971. :roll:

And even more funny considering these memos were supposed to be done by a typewriter.

You missed the point.

No...I think it was YOU who missed it

CsG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Gore Campaign Declined Bush Guard Story

DOH!!!

CsG

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: irwincur
I'm just waiting for the idiots at the DNC to come out and reveal the 'originals'... saved on a floppy disk.

LOL. That is pretty funny considering the floppy disk was invented in 1971. :roll:

And even more funny considering these memos were supposed to be done by a typewriter.

You missed the point.

No...I think it was YOU who missed it

CsG

Why? I understand that memos were not typewriten. Think we all do by now. My point is, it is completely plausible to have had records on Bush on floppy back in 72. That's why I found it funny and was willing to share the history of the floppy disk invention date with him. I actually thought it was back in the 60's but a quick search says 71. That's all

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: irwincur
I'm just waiting for the idiots at the DNC to come out and reveal the 'originals'... saved on a floppy disk.

LOL. That is pretty funny considering the floppy disk was invented in 1971. :roll:

And even more funny considering these memos were supposed to be done by a typewriter.

You missed the point.

No...I think it was YOU who missed it

CsG

Why?

Because your sarcasm meter was broken when you read irwincur's post.

CsG

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

... STFU

The best advice we can receive is that which we freely give out.

*plonk*

Chase after CBS all you like AFAIC. It doesn't change the fact that GWB's military records has holes in it. Lot's of holes. The gist of the story is still there. You think you have a victory here? Rather isn't the one running for President, DUHHHHBYA is!! It is Duhhhbya's lack of integrity that is the issue.

As I said before, enjoy your circle jerk, because this thread is nothing more then self gratification and premature celebrating of a victory you haven't gotten yet, but think you have. We shall see who the voters pick. Enjoy yourselves while you can.

 

[heartsurgeon]

Oh this is getting better and better...

now it appears that the Kerry campaign took direct quotes from the forged documents and quoted them in April of this year in canpaign literature...

hmmm

how did the Kerry campaign have forged documents that CBS didn't get until September?

did CBS send them to Kerry (via Lockhart), or did the Kerry campaign send them to Rather through Burkett?

something smells bad here..it's gonna get worse before the smell goes away...

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Lawyer: Burkett to Sue CBS

You're STILL missing the big picture! As your next president rides off into the sunset, to start his next four years, Rather will STILL be getting grilled about being so obviously and unprofessionally biased. By the 3rd of November 2004, nobody will give a damn about what Bush did 30 years ago, and Rather will STILL be twisting in the wind.

Close the topic? HAH! It's only just begun... :laugh:

Bush didn't meet his Guard obligations

Did you ever hear of overconfidence. We still haven't heard the debates and you idiots think the election is already over with. All the talk about Rather is just that, talk about Rather. You guys are game for anything except for GWB to address the issue directly.

An undecided voter would sure have to wonder why GWB doesn't make a statment besides "I was hohorably discharged".

An undecided voter would have to ask himself why he didn't take a scheduled flight physical?

An undecided voter would question why GWB, a trained pilot was flying in a two seater trainer and in some of those flights was not even the officer in command?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Bush didn't meet his Guard obligations

Did you ever hear of overconfidence. We still haven't heard the debates and you idiots think the election is already over with. All the talk about Rather is just that, talk about Rather. You guys are game for anything except for GWB to address the issue directly.

An undecided voter would sure have to wonder why GWB doesn't make a statment besides "I was hohorably discharged".

An undecided voter would have to ask himself why he didn't take a scheduled flight physical?

An undecided voter would question why GWB, a trained pilot was flying in a two seater trainer and in some of those flights was not even the officer in command?

Why do you keep posting in the wrong sticky thread?

CsG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Oh this is getting better and better...

now it appears that the Kerry campaign took direct quotes from the forged documents and quoted them in April of this year in canpaign literature...

hmmm

how did the Kerry campaign have forged documents that CBS didn't get until September?

did CBS send them to Kerry (via Lockhart), or did the Kerry campaign send them to Rather through Burkett?

something smells bad here..it's gonna get worse before the smell goes away...

Yeah, that is sort of curious...

just a thought: Was that campaign release a call out to get the memos made/whatever?

Definately something to keep an eye on...

CsG

 

[heartsurgeon]

F

ACT: The order suspending Bush from flight duty stated: ?Verbal orders of the Comdr on 1 Aug 72 suspending 1STLT George W. Bush?from flying status are confirmed?Reason for Suspension: Failure to accomplish annual medical examination. Off will comply with para 2-10, AFM 35-13. Authority: Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13.

direct quote fron the Kerry campaign website johnkerry.com

gosh.....this "verbal order of the Comdr on 1 Aug 72.." is exactly what the first forged document stated..

PDF's of forged documents

i suppose it's just a coincidence that the Kerry campaign has quotes lifted from a forged document posted on their web site in April....and CBS reports on these same memos in September..

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Bush didn't meet his Guard obligations

Did you ever hear of overconfidence. We still haven't heard the debates and you idiots think the election is already over with. All the talk about Rather is just that, talk about Rather. You guys are game for anything except for GWB to address the issue directly.

An undecided voter would sure have to wonder why GWB doesn't make a statment besides "I was hohorably discharged".

An undecided voter would have to ask himself why he didn't take a scheduled flight physical?

An undecided voter would question why GWB, a trained pilot was flying in a two seater trainer and in some of those flights was not even the officer in command?

Why do you keep posting in the wrong sticky thread?

CsG

LOL, keep commenting and asking me questions and I'll just keep posting.

Actually, I think it is pertinent to this discussion to point out that GWB's known record also has to be considered. In other words, just because CBS screwed up that is doesn't automatically follow that GWB isn't trying to pull the wool over the public's eyes in record to his ANG service.

 

[heartsurgeon]

An undecided voter would have to ask himself why he didn't take a scheduled flight physical?

undecided voters could care less about this crap..nobody cares whether Bush missed a physical exam 30 years ago, or whether Kerry shot some guy in the back in vietnam

true or false, nobody really cares...

An undecided voter would question why GWB, a trained pilot was flying in a two seater trainer and in some of those flights was not even the officer in command?

This statement isn't even a coherent thought...WTF does it mean, and more to the point WTF does anyone care....

now Dan Rather, and Kerry colluding to try and win an election by using forged documents to slander a sitting president...that's interesting, and will effect swing voters...you can count on it.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
F

ACT: The order suspending Bush from flight duty stated: ?Verbal orders of the Comdr on 1 Aug 72 suspending 1STLT George W. Bush?from flying status are confirmed?Reason for Suspension: Failure to accomplish annual medical examination. Off will comply with para 2-10, AFM 35-13. Authority: Para 2-29m, AFM 35-13.

direct quote fron the Kerry campaign website johnkerry.com

gosh.....this "verbal order of the Comdr on 1 Aug 72.." is exactly what the first forged document stated..

PDF's of forged documents

i suppose it's just a coincidence that the Kerry campaign has quotes lifted from a forged document posted on their web site in April....and CBS reports on these same memos in September..

There it is, proof positive that the memos were copied from the original documents.

 

[heartsurgeon]

There it is, proof positive that the memos were copied from the original documents

what original documents? the Kery campaign doesn;t have any "original documents" that state what they have on their web site..if they did, they would have released them to the press....the only documents that state what the Kerry site quotes are the forged documents...

and it seems that the Kerry camp had these documents in April!! 5 months before CBS gets them......

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

2) I would not be at all surprised if it was discovered that Bush missed some physical because he had alcohol or drugs in his system and pulled as many strings as possible to get out of the situation. But the simple fact remains that it appears the document used as "proof" of this was a fake. The very idea that *somebody* felt the need to falsify reports and provide forged documents to prove Bush was in the wrong is a very telling issue, IMO. If there was so much evidence against him, as you state, why in the hell would somebody make an very poor forgery as part of the evidence? Doesn't that seem a little odd to you? Why take that chance? That does not mean that the implication may not be true, but it sure doesn't bode well for his accusers, now does it?

Since you asked, why didn't they just type them on a typewriter? Why would then go to all the trouble to make them in Word? Just go down to the pawn shop and buy an old typewriter to type it on. How dumb can you get if you are really trying to fool people?

I still think they did make typewriters that could do what the experts question. I remember seeing them in that time frame. It was quite a noticeable improvement when they came out with typewriters that did proportional spacing and superscript and nobody has proven they didin't AFAIK.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

An undecided voter would have to ask himself why he didn't take a scheduled flight physical?

undecided voters could care less about this crap..nobody cares whether Bush missed a physical exam 30 years ago, or whether Kerry shot some guy in the back in vietnam

true or false, nobody really cares...

Just because you don't care doesn't mean others don't.

An undecided voter would question why GWB, a trained pilot was flying in a two seater trainer and in some of those flights was not even the officer in command?

This statement isn't even a coherent thought...WTF does it mean, and more to the point WTF does anyone care....[/quote]

You must not have any flying knowledge. GWB was a trained F102 pilot. He not flying in the F102, but a 2 seat training jet. On some of those flights, he wasn't even the pilot in command. Why?

now Dan Rather, and Kerry colluding to try and win an election by using forged documents to slander a sitting president...that's interesting, and will effect swing voters...you can count on it.

And you have the proof??? LOL

 

[heartsurgeon]

I still think they did make typewriters that could do what the experts question

Dan?
is that you?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

I still think they did make typewriters that could do what the experts question

Dan?
is that you?

FYI

The Freedom of Information Center
Papers: Bush Piloted Guard Training Jets

By MATT KELLEY
Associated Press
September 10, 2004

WASHINGTON - After routinely piloting a fighter jet solo for most of his career, George W. Bush began flying a two-seat jet designed for training in the weeks just before the Texas Air National Guard stripped him of his pilot's privileges in 1972, flight logs show.

The logs indicate Bush did half of his final 21 flights in a training jet or simulator, and on four occasions he sat in the co-pilot's position after more than a year of commanding a single-seat F-102A fighter by himself.

The logs also show the future president was heavily focused at the end of his pilot time on flying by instruments - a skill he mastered during his initial training three years earlier with near-perfect scores of 97 and 98.

The White House said it cannot explain why Bush was using a training plane when he had risen to the rank of first lieutenant as a solo flyer of a fighter jet.

But officials noted the activities occurred in the spring of 1972 when Bush was trying to cram in extensive required flying time before he left the Guard for six months to work on a political campaign in Alabama.

"He did his training and was honorably discharged," White House spokesman Trent Duffy said.

The numerous trainer and simulator flights occurred at a period most heavily examined by Bush's political critics. They were among Bush's last visits to the cockpit before he refused a required pilot's physical and was stripped of his flying status after three years in the Air National Guard.

Before The Associated Press obtained the flight logs this week under the Freedom of Information Act and a related lawsuit, there was little detail about exactly how Bush performed as a pilot or what he did in the cockpit before he lost flying privileges.

Air Force experts who examined the records at the request of AP said the logs could reflect anything from problems in Bush's flight performance to a shortage of available fighter jets.

"Maybe he had a problem, but I wouldn't assume that. You can't tell," said retired Air Force Col. Leonard "Jack" Walls, a former flight instructor at an Alabama Air National Guard unit where Bush temporarily served.

The training officer who taught Bush how to fly his jet at the beginning of his career said he had no concerns about Bush's skills when he was certified. "I taught the guy and he is good," said retired Col. Maurice Udell.

For most of his National Guard career - more than 200 hours in the air - Bush flew solo in a one-seat F-102A fighter used to patrol the skies against any attacks from enemy aircraft.

However, the logs show Bush flew nine times in T-33 training jets and two more times on a simulator in February and March 1972 - nearly twice as many times as he had flown in training vehicles in the prior 18 months in the Guard.

In one week alone, he flew eight times in the T-33 training vehicle. On four of the trainer flights, Bush moved from primary pilot to co-pilot, the logs show.

The T-33 is designed to help train pilots early in their career, allowing for a more experienced pilot to sit behind a trainee before the trainee is permitted to fly solo in a single-pilot jet. Bush flew extensively in the T-33 during his pilot schooling at the beginning of his Guard career.


Just another log on the fire.