Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[Shmee]

Some of the moderators, including myself, have been working to clean up the flamebait in this thread. Please, keep it clean and respectful, and remember that some cheering for a vendor is allowed in vendor threads, but dumping on them is not.

 

[gaav87]

Really? essentially the entire desktop GPUs market below the 5080 are only 1% of all Nvidias wafers?

I don't believe they would actually lower prices proactively. Perhaps when they actually start to lose a measurabel chunk sof marketshare but not proactively.

I really don't get the logic people here seem to apply: "under no circumstance should AMD ever price anything below Nvidia, ever!" or dear god, Nvidia might lower prices a bit ... in a while ... or with a super refresh a year from now ..

Make sure it's only a an arbitrary fixed $50 from Nvidia (no matter whether that $50 is 7% or 20% of the price mind you) or AMD is immediately doomed. Doomed an bankrupt!

Right! i was feeling like insane person for, a while

 

[gdansk]

How does that kill N48 if its as fast as 5070Ti and $50-$100 cheaper??

I don't know how to tell you this but 5% faster, RTX/DLSS/CUDA means Nvidia can charge $150 more. And gamers will be happy to buy it over Radeon. Go read comments. The sentiment is hard to dispute. Hell, they'll buy an entire tier down rather than touch the pariahdeon.
Gamers are mad but that's because supply is bad and prices are fictional. Fix that and they'll be happy to pay the GeForce premium again. Nvidia improving supply and slapping their AIBs is all it takes to keep AMD at 10-15% market share. And it doesn't cut into their margins.

 

[adroc_thurston]

What evidence do you have that NV can or will, even if they can, price their 5070Ti to "kill" 9070XT?

They quite literally always respond to comp pressure like that.

Even when true, I see no reason why Nvidia would want to sacrifice its profits and start a price-war to go after a party having ~10% of the Discrete GPU market.

it's called keeping that 10% player down.
They're doing it in the GPGPU space too.

I really don't get the logic people here seem to apply: "under no circumstance should AMD ever price anything below Nvidia, ever!" or dear god, Nvidia might lower prices a bit ... in a while ... or with a super refresh a year from now ..

yes these things are bad.

 

[Josh128]

I don't know how to tell you this but 5% faster, RTX/DLSS/CUDA means Nvidia can charge $150 more. And gamers will be happy to buy it over Radeon. Go read comments. The sentiment is hard to dispute. Hell, they'll buy an entire tier down rather than touch the pariahdeon.
Gamers are mad but that's because supply is bad and prices are fictional. Fix that and they'll be happy to pay the GeForce premium again. Nvidia improving supply and slapping their AIBs is all it takes to keep AMD at 10-15% market share. And it doesn't cut into their margins.

Naive, ignorant fancucks and rich kids might, but if the price/perf/efficiency is there, gladly paying $150 over an already likely $650-$699 price is not a given at all. In case you havent noticed, the price of homes, autos, and groceries have increased 25%-75% since the launch of RDNA 2 (and COVID), borrowed money in the US now costs 5%+ instead of being basically free, and wages havent nearly kept the same pace as all those price increases. Tariffs are (maybe) about to affect most commerce quite significantly, if Trump actually does what he is saying he will do. Tens of thousands of US federal workers are about to be let go. The global gravy train is coming to a stop very soon, and if thats not evident to you now, it will be in the next year or two.

AMD has seemingly recognized they simply dont have the "Apple-like" legion of followers that NV has, and chose to focus on a single "good enough" SKU that can hopefully be produced and thus sold, at acceptable pricing, rather than a whole lineup of cards that take much more resources to design and produce, yet still sell mediocre numbers.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Naive, ignorant fancucks and rich kids might, but if the price/perf/efficiency is there, paying $150 over an already $650-$699 price is not a given at all. In case you havent noticed, the price of homes, autos, and groceries have increased 25%-75% since the launch of RDNA 2 (and COVID), money in the US is now 5% instead of free, and wages havent nearly kept the same pace. Tariffs are (maybe) about to affect most commerce rather hard, if Trump actually does what he is saying he will do. Tens of thousands of US federal workers are about to let go. The global gravy train is coming to a stop very soon, and if thats not evident to you now, it will be in the next year or two.

most of the world isn't the US and does not have US problems. too bad!
Also a 150 buck premium stretched over the span of 3-4 years is a nothingburger.
People will buy Nvidia. Anyone saying otherwise is naive.

AMD has seemingly recognized they simply dont have the "Apple-like" legion of followers that NV has, and chose to focus on a single "good enough" SKU that can hopefully be produced and thus sold, at acceptable pricing, rather than a whole lineup of cards that take much more resources to design and produce, yet still sell mediocre numbers.

no they literally waved the white flag after seeing GB202.
a true ATi classic.

 

[Joe NYC]

Yes, for a lot of people that's all they want - cheaper Nvidia GPUs. For those people, it doesn't matter what AMD does anyway, all they care about is their green GPU. You can't convince those people without consistently putting out something compelling. Doesn't need to be the fastest, just needs to be something that can grab their attention, even if only to cope about.

Good point. 7800x3d, 9800x3d caused a lot Intel fan to switch to AMD. Not 7950x, not 7950x3d, not 9950x...

Most "normal" people don't spend more than $500 on CPU or GPU. So if AMD offers something compelling in $500 band, it will get attention of NVidia fans.

 

[Josh128]

most of the world isn't the US and does not have US problems. too bad!
Also a 150 buck premium stretched over the span of 3-4 years is a nothingburger.
People will buy Nvidia. Anyone saying otherwise is naive.

Economically, US problems are the worlds problems, 100%, and anyone who doesnt recognize that is incredibly naive. The US are the most reckless and wasteful consumers on the planet and this consumerism and profiteering off of this consumerism is basically why prices and availability of all these things are what they currently are. If that declines, the rest of the worlds economic situation declines lock-step. Thats not up for debate.

.

no they literally waved the white flag after seeing GB202.
a true ATi classic.

Seeing GB202 had nothing to do with it. Seeing how their RDNA 2 and RDNA 3 flagship SKUs sold compared to NV, despite having equal or better price/perf had everything to do with it.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Economically, US problems are the worlds problems

uh, nope.

The US are the most reckless and wasteful consumers on the planet and this consumerism and profiteering off of this consumerism is basically why prices and availability of all these things are what they currently are. If that declines, the rest of the worlds economic situation declines lock-step. Thats not up for debate.

uh, nope.

Seeing GB202 had nothing to do with it.

Literally everything to do with it.
They saw 192SM, 512b GDDR7 and went "oh".
Little did they know it would've been the easiest case of big game hunting ever.

Seeing how their RDNA 2 and RDNA 3 flagship SKUs sold compared to NV, despite having equal or better price/perf had everything to do with it.

No.
Price/perf is a worthless metric for halo parts anyway.

 

[gdansk]

Naive, ignorant fancucks and rich kids might

In the graphics card market? Impossible.

The argument is simple. Nvidia doesn't have to cut MSRP or make an early super. If AMD is $599 or higher they can be countered simply by supply and MSRP. That doesn't hurt Nvidia much to do. And I doubt AMD can really go under 599.

Be honest. Nvidia's features and brand power can easily command a 25%/$150 premium. The 4080 got away with a 20%/$200 premium (but higher in practice) and outsold the 7900 XTX the entire time before they cut its price with a super.

 

[Keller_TT]

The argument is simple. Nvidia doesn't have to cut MSRP or make an early super. If AMD is $599 or higher they can be countered simply by supply and MSRP. That doesn't hurt Nvidia much to do. And I doubt AMD can really go under 599.

Be honest. Nvidia's features and brand power can easily command a 25%/$150 premium. The 4080 got away with a 20%/$200 premium (but higher in practice) and outsold the 7900 XTX the entire time before they cut its price with a super.

Are you an AMD employee who can't see the obvious?
You be honest. No one except the most loyal AMD fans crazy about that 24 GB would've touched a $1000 Radeon with glaring deficiencies for the price.
There are far too many in software to keep listing them, a no-go for content creators, and FSR was no match for DLSS, and I've highlighted this a few times - AMD utterly sucked in VR support and VR specific tech. I specifically had to sell my 7900 XT and buy a 4080 because of that, and non-existent in software support for modders for 2 incredibly popular sim racing titles.
Add significantly worser energy efficiency vs Ada and one generation (35% avg vs 4080) behind in RT. Add CUDA for some ML dabblers. No wonder 4080 made the XTX irrelevant.

If it's anything more than $599 for a Sapphire Pulse XT, AMD deserves the debacle after such a bizarre launch fiasco, blatant lies about mainstream value of 7800 XT, 7900 GRE, and "not meant for Porsches and Ferrari owners". They lied blatantly during RDNA 3 launch about performance & efficiency. Tomorrow will say a lot about the scruples of AMD under Lisa.

 

[gdansk]

You be honest

I am. And you're agreeing with me angrily for whatever reason. Nvidia features and brand can easily command a premium. That's that.

AMD pricing doesn't matter. They cannot price it low enough that people will be happy to buy it. If it's $500 people will come up with reasons, real and hypothetical, why they bought a RTX 5070 instead. At $650+ they still get the same people (those who prioritize raster value above all).

 

[poke01]

They lied blatantly during RDNA 3 launch about performance & efficiency

They truly did and it was a bad event. RDNA3 was totally a miss in terms of communication and marketing.

 

[Keller_TT]

I am. And you're agreeing with me angrily for whatever reason. Nvidia features and brand can easily command a premium. That's that.

I'm not angry. Just a bit tired and annoyed.
I had hoped earlier that if RDNA4 was shaping up to be a good one, AMD will just have to not be stupid, and will have a great chance to make a name for the Radeon brand to mean something. GN video highlighted the same things with precedents and context.
Let's see. But at least supposedly AMD insiders/associates on this forum have left a bad taste.

 

[adroc_thurston]

and will have a great chance to make a name for the Radeon brand to mean something

If means "Nvidia pricecuts".
If it doesn't mean that, gamers fume. Pretty simple!

 

[gdansk]

I had hoped earlier that if RDNA4 was shaping up to be a good one

I have to say it's almost always a mistake to be hyped about an upcoming Radeon product. Only be hopeful they may accidentally overproduce. Later RDNA2 sales were pretty good value. But I don't think that will be happening during the ML boom.

 

[Kepler_L2]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895282012434637217

Potentially $599 and $549?

 

[gdansk]

Potentially $599 and $549?

Surely that's low enough to make people happy.

 

[poke01]

Surely that's low enough to make people happy.

Sorry guys but I’m not happy I want it to be free

 

[Hitman928]

Surely that's low enough to make people happy.

There’s a psychological barrier between $599 and $649, so most likely.

 

[maddie]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1895282012434637217

Potentially $599 and $549?

Why buy 9070 then?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Why buy 9070 then?

you're not supposed to.

 

[Keller_TT]

Potentially $599 and $549?

That will look like a crazy upsell tactic. $499 and $599 would be good enough for making both great pickups. Also w.r.t product tier/specs gen on gen, vs 7700 XT especially for the 9070. $450 was already a bit expensive for its performance, and settled around $420 in a couple of months post launch.

 

[branch_suggestion]

Why buy 9070 then?

You don't, yields are always really good when price anchoring like this happens.
They won't make many of them at all.

That will look like a crazy upsell tactic. $499 and $599 would be good enough for making both great pickups. Also w.r.t product tier/specs gen on gen, vs 7700 XT especially for the 9070. $450 was already a bit expensive for its performance, and settled around $420 in a couple of months post launch.

They can do it cause 5070 is poopoo.
Price the cutdown too well and NV will respond.

 

[SolidQ]

Why buy 9070 then?

in half year it will drop price like 7700XT