Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[reaperrr3]

if price is real

Not ruling out it might be real for the US, but MSRPs will certainly land a bit below Nvidia's.
Although the 9070s have considerably improved AMD's brand perception, at about the same price, many people would likely still choose 5060Ti over 9060XT, especially at 8GB vs. 8GB due to AMD's worse memory management, and AMD knows this.

These prices are either including tariffs + early adopter mark-up + "OC model tax", or these particular shop listings are simply not representative.
Remember how some early leaked shop listings for 9070s were suggesting something like 700-800, yet at least the official MSRPs ended up way below that.
Pretty sure the official MSRPs will be at least 30-50$ below the 5060Ti's, so I'd expect real market prices to settle in that area relative to 5060Ti as well, once factors like tariffs are included for both.

My guess would be around $379 MSRP for the 9060XT-16GB and $299 for the 8GB (which would pitch the 8GB against the 5060 rather than 5060Ti-8G, where AMD's worse memory management may not hurt them as badly).

...And then I hope AMD/AIBs won't make many 8GB cards, phase them out soonish and replace it with a 9060 with 28 CUs, 12GB@18Gbps@96bit, 130-150W at $299, because such a card would likely outsell all other cards below the 5060Ti-16GB and 96XT-16GB.

 

[jpiniero]

...And then I hope AMD/AIBs won't make many 8GB cards, phase them out soonish

That I could see. The 12 GB thing isn't happening though.

 

[Rigg]

Also GPU market is a disaster right now. As mentioned earlier/elsewhere stuff like 7600 is still going for $300.

Why price down in a market where people will spend that kind of money?

Tarrifs okay a role, but so does AI compute and Nvidia's complete lack of interest in the consumer market as well.

The GPU market is a dumpster fire. 9070XT cards are selling at Micro Center for like 40-50% over MSRP right now. MSRP is just a meaningless number on a marketing slide at this point. The smart play for them is to just set 9060 (XT) 8 GB MSRP low and hope for good reviews based on value in this crappy market. They can then sell whatever stock they have (including a few token MSRP models) quickly at launch, and quietly stop making the 8 GB cards all together. Nobody wants 8 GB cards at this performance tier anyway, and prominent reviewers are going to 💩 on them worse if the MSRP is too high. AMD and their partners will make more money on higher demand 16GB versions in the long run so they shouldn't tarnish them with 8 GB models that have the MSRP set too high.

 

[jpiniero]

How about no MSRP at all?

 

[GodisanAtheist]

The GPU market is a dumpster fire. 9070XT cards are selling at Micro Center for like 40-50% over MSRP right now. MSRP is just a meaningless number on a marketing slide at this point. The smart play for them is to just set 9060 (XT) 8 GB MSRP low and hope for good reviews based on value in this crappy market. They can then sell whatever stock they have (including a few token MSRP models) quickly at launch, and quietly stop making the 8 GB cards all together. Nobody wants 8 GB cards at this performance tier anyway, and prominent reviewers are going to 💩 on them worse if the MSRP is too high. AMD and their partners will make more money on higher demand 16GB versions in the long run so they shouldn't tarnish them with 8 GB models that have the MSRP set too high.

-Yeah thats what I figured. Low MSRP to make people feel good, street prices rapidly inflate to the "true" cost.

AMD gets plausible deniability, everyone gets to take the customer for a ride.

 

[reaperrr3]

-Yeah thats what I figured. Low MSRP to make people feel good, street prices rapidly inflate to the "true" cost.

AMD gets plausible deniability, everyone gets to take the customer for a ride.

European prices are "only" ~5-10% above the € MSRPs, though.
Cheapest 9070 is just 20 € above MSRP, cheapest 9070XT is "only" 50€ above MSRP.
RTX 5070Ti, 5070 and 5060Ti-16GB are all available at or even below (in case of 5070) their official € MSRP.

Looks like the US prices are factoring in tariffs.

But yeah, I guess the official 9070's $ MSRPs were intentionally set without the tariff factor to make their prices look more aggressive than they really are.

 

[jpiniero]

European prices are "only" ~5-10% above the € MSRPs, though.
Cheapest 9070 is just 20 € above MSRP, cheapest 9070XT is "only" 50€ above MSRP.
RTX 5070Ti, 5070 and 5060Ti-16GB are all available at or even below (in case of 5070) their official € MSRP.

That might have to do with the dollar slumping though. The 9070's "MSRP" even with the vat should be roughly 580 euro or so when converted from USD, yet it looks like it's over 700 at least.

 

[Rigg]

-Yeah thats what I figured. Low MSRP to make people feel good, street prices rapidly inflate to the "true" cost.

AMD gets plausible deniability, everyone gets to take the customer for a ride.

Unfortunately this seems to be the reality. This is the first generation of AMD cards to suffer from the fake MSRP effect. You can't blame them really. Since Nvidia has been on this train for a while now, AMD can't just set MSRP prices higher to reflect market reality. They'd look terrible against Nvidia's fake MSRPs. Even if reviewers point out that the MSRPs are misleading in this market, they still kind of have to base the value proposition (in a launch day review anyway) on the MSRP price. As you pointed out earlier, Nvidia's unwillingness to supply the consumer market adequately (because of AI demand on the enterprise side) is inflating prices on gaming GPUs. Pile the looming threat of US tariffs on top of that and here we are.

 

[jpiniero]

Unfortunately this seems to be the reality. This is the first generation of AMD cards to suffer from the fake MSRP effect.

I still say the Fake MSRP was mainly because AMD was unsure if people would actually buy the cards at launch for once.

 

[Rigg]

I still say the Fake MSRP was mainly because AMD was unsure if people would actually buy the cards at launch for once.

I think it's pretty clear they set MSRP aggressively on 9070(XT) to try and get favorable reviews. They were reaching out to HUB and GN asking for feedback on MSRP right before the cards were released. Like you said, they may not have expected demand to be this high, so it may not have been blatant anti-consumer practice. The inflated prices could be natural as opposed to being a planned and deceptive pricing strategy. Either way, as @GodisanAtheist points out, they have plausible deniability on this front, and consumers get the shaft regardless.

 

[Mopetar]

I don't understand all of the posts blaming the prices on tariffs. There was a post made a while back indicating GPUs were exempt from them. Also if it was tariffs the prices would be far, far higher than they currently are because the tariff rates are absurdly high for Chinese goods.

A big part of the problem is that demand is far higher than supply, but I think tariffs are just another scapegoat to justify the scalping or retailers charging more than MSRP because they can. Even if there were a complete free trade agreement signed tomorrow with 0% tariffs, GPU prices wouldn't budge a penny. They'd probably keep going up.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't understand all of the posts blaming the prices on tariffs. There was a post made a while back indicating GPUs were exempt from them. Also if it was tariffs the prices would be far, far higher than they currently are because the tariff rates are absurdly high for Chinese goods.

I am not sure that is really true... but I suppose it's possible that the tariff calculation is dependent on the components themselves and not the finished product.

Either way you should be assuming that the retail price of the 9060 XT 16 GB is going to be at least $400.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

A big part of the problem is that demand is far higher than supply, but I think tariffs are just another scapegoat to justify the scalping or retailers charging more than MSRP because they can. Even if there were a complete free trade agreement signed tomorrow with 0% tariffs, GPU prices wouldn't budge a penny. They'd probably keep going up.

If we can convince everyone to pickup what userbenchmark is laying down, we'd see those RDNA 2 fire sale prices from a couple of years ago.

 

[Thunder 57]

If we can convince everyone to pickup what userbenchmark is laying down, we'd see those RDNA 2 fire sale prices from a couple of years ago.

View attachment 123667

I really want to know what AMD did to this guy. How have they wronged him? Killed his parents and stole his inheritance? It really is sad hes made it his lifes goal to destroy AMD. A goal at which he is failing at miserably.

 

[eek2121]

I still say the Fake MSRP was mainly because AMD was unsure if people would actually buy the cards at launch for once.

I think it's pretty clear they set MSRP aggressively on 9070(XT) to try and get favorable reviews. They were reaching out to HUB and GN asking for feedback on MSRP right before the cards were released. Like you said, they may not have expected demand to be this high, so it may not have been blatant anti-consumer practice. The inflated prices could be natural as opposed to being a planned and deceptive pricing strategy. Either way, as @GodisanAtheist points out, they have plausible deniability on this front, and consumers get the shaft regardless.

AMD sold 10X the amount of cards the first week of launch. They have been churning out record amounts of Radeon silicon.

MSRP cards do come out, they just get snatched up instantly. Board makers don’t help with this because they prioritize higher priced cards due to better margins.

Radeon hurt AMD pretty bad last gen, which is one of the reasons why they aren’t making cards themselves.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Radeon hurt AMD pretty bad last gen, which is one of the reasons why they aren’t making cards themselves.

This point while accurate overall, excludes recent data. For the last few months RDNA 3, and especially the highest ASP models, have been selling out at above MSRP. Allowing board partners to recoup a lot of those profits they lost during the fire sale days. Market conditions have salvaged the generation just as it did with RDNA 2. People like to cite a competitive flagship as the reason, but the pandemic demand and its effect on just in time manufacturing was far more impactful. Impacts we are still experiencing years later.

I really want to know what AMD did to this guy. How have they wronged him? Killed his parents and stole his inheritance? It really is sad hes made it his lifes goal to destroy AMD. A goal at which he is failing at miserably.

My cynicism makes me doubt he has any genuine animosity towards AMD. It's a biz model; he is making big bank selling the Haterade. My facetious conspiracy theory - Despite people holding up r/Intel banning him as evidence he has no affiliation with the company, I press X to doubt. First: The guy that owns that sub is allegedly not an Intel employee. Second: that infamous internal snake oil used car salesman slide deck that leaked out, was 100% UBM inspired or he wrote it for them.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

My cynicism makes me doubt he has any genuine animosity towards AMD. It's a biz model; he is making big bank selling the Haterade. My facetious conspiracy theory - Despite people holding up r/Intel banning him as evidence he has no affiliation with the company, I press X to doubt. First: The guy that owns that sub is allegedly not an Intel employee. Second: that infamous internal snake oil used car salesman slide deck that leaked out, was 100% UBM inspired or he wrote it for them.

-Yeah his AMD hate boner is almost comically bent out of shape. Its likely a gimmick to draw attention to his site.

As far as I'm aware, UBM's software isn't biased against AMD, it's not like it spits out artificially low numbers or anything.

He's just going by the old "any publicity is good publicity" marketing tactic and it seems to have worked as far as I can tell because people still give UBM the time of day when so many other "unbiased" options exist.

Edit: I take it back, dude's brain is cooked. See @DAPUNISHER and @Tuna-Fish comments below.

 

[gdansk]

AMD sold 10X the amount of cards the first week of launch.

AMD also delayed the launch about 8-10 weeks so I'm not sure that higher first week sales actually has an impact on total units shipped.

 

[SolidQ]

Seems RDNA4 selling fine in mindfactory, but amazon us doesn't have good stocks?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1921816817875509560

 

[DAPUNISHER]

As far as I'm aware, UBM's software isn't biased against AMD, it's not like it spits out artificially low numbers or anything.

He has pulled shenanigans. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/u...nchmark weighed single-core,and 2% multi-core.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

As far as I'm aware, UBM's software isn't biased against AMD, it's not like it spits out artificially low numbers or anything.

No, he has in the past changed the benchmark setup on every AMD release to make sure AMD scores lower. His benchmark numbers are entirely biased.

 

[Mopetar]

I don't know anyone who takes UBM seriously. In the past I think the website got a lot of traffic through good SEO, but the reviews are so vitriolic that even casual readers are going to consider the quality of the information they're getting even if they don't look at other reviews.

I've seen homeless people on the street ranting about the CIA beaming messages into their head via dental filings who come across as less unhinged than the UBM guy. I have to think that a good chunk of the traffic they get is people reading the "reviews" for a good laugh.

 

[Avalon]

Finally got my Powercolor Hellhound 9070 (non-XT) in from an Amazon pre-order. Only $699 USD, yay! (ugh)

Going to have to OC it so I don't feel too bad about not having an XT, but they were all $850+. Only reason I couldn't wait for more market sanity (if that ever comes) is because my current card is starting to die (random flickers/crashes during intense scenes). Should be a big upgrade from a Radeon 5700.

 

[Mopetar]

I gave up on seeing sanely priced cards anytime soon and snagged a PS5 Pro. It's obviously older tech and not clocked as high as a discrete card, but the whole console cost less than a decent mid-range card right now.

 

[jpiniero]

Finally got my Powercolor Hellhound 9070 (non-XT) in from an Amazon pre-order. Only $699 USD, yay! (ugh)

Going to have to OC it so I don't feel too bad about not having an XT, but they were all $850+. Only reason I couldn't wait for more market sanity (if that ever comes) is because my current card is starting to die (random flickers/crashes during intense scenes). Should be a big upgrade from a Radeon 5700.

There's been a couple XT around $699-$729. They don't last long in stock though.