Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

[DisEnchantment]

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.



Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[jpiniero]

CPUs remain affordable and profitable

AMD makes most of the Client Revenue off of old CPUs. Be like if nVidia was selling 3070s at it's original MSRP or maybe with a small price cut.

Only recently has that started to change a bit. Client ASP was up 40-odd% last quarter YoY.

 

[gdansk]

AMD makes most of the Client Revenue off of old CPUs. Be like if nVidia was selling 3070s at it's original MSRP or maybe with a small price cut.

Only recently has that started to change a bit. Client ASP was up 40-odd% last quarter YoY.

AMD's client business is tiny. Nvidia planned their consumer graphics cards at an even lower rate than 4000 series for the same process and similar die sizes. The problem isn't manufacturing costs.

I'm not sure why you think AMD client revenue is an indication that N5/N4 are somehow magically more expensive in the start of 2025 but was affordable in 2024 and will suddenly be affordable again by the end of the year.

 

[maddie]

AMD's client business is tiny. Nvidia planned their consumer graphics cards at an even lower rate than 4000 series for the same process and similar die sizes. The problem isn't manufacturing costs.

I'm not sure why you think AMD client revenue is an indication that N5/N4 are somehow magically more expensive in the start of 2025 but was affordable in 2024 and will suddenly be affordable again by the end of the year.

It's a narrative.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Well this thread got real dark. really real. Remind me to not ask serious questions in my escapism threads.

I prefer to keep it light and fun too. Something you and I have in common outside of this hobby, is we are both athletes. It is my considered opinion that it induces an upbeat and positive mentality. As the kids say - we touch grass.

@DAPUNISHER and yet adults with headsets playing games is somehow some adolescent activity we are supposed to "out grow" so we can go pursue some "real" hobbies.

I will never grow up, I'm a Toys"R"Us kid.

Sorry, but this is an easy way for me to stay connected with friends and have fun with my kids. I choose to be present at home and steal away with them into worlds fantastic when I can. And yeah, even with moderate investment, it remains a very thrifty hobby, for sure.

My son and I have many happy memories playing 360 and PS3 together.

Guess who had a valve spring break in his stupid car? This guy. $3,300. I was a dropped valve away from a catastrophic engine failure and basically a totaled investment. A completely different realm of costs.

The Corvette? They do be like that.

Circling back to Radeon: Scoring the Pulse 7900XTX here in the for sale forum for $610 shipped put me in the GN discount code IDGAF mindset. I have enough performance and ram to suit me for years to come, and who knows how long it will take before it depreciates to where I can't get all of my money back? I.E. I play the long game.

@Sonikku nailed it with the comment about striking when the iron is hot. She could have returned that 7900XT she bought in November until 1/31/25. Looking at the present market it was a hot deal.

I have my popcorn ready for the scathing reviews the 8GB 9060 XT will get. The deceiving name, anemic vram, and MSRP = REKT

 

[Thunder 57]

CPUs remain affordable and profitable despite inflation and MLID. Of course, GPUs matter more to a certain demographic discussed above.

The current pricing conflagration is due almost entirely to other factors than increased manufacturing costs. You can tell because the MSRPs are low.

Both AMD and Nvidia cut production late last year. The channel was devoid of graphics cards by January. The pent up demand allowed retailers and board makers to jack up prices. And now that supply is resuming prices are usually slower to fall than to rise. Especially since some desperate people will buy at each step of the descent to MSRP (well, we might not reach MSRP but that would be due to new random and unpredictable consumer taxes by the administration).

The only company making a product cheap enough and big enough for transistor cost to be a factor is Intel and they "solved" that problem by making only a tiny amount.

I've made that argument multple times in multiple places, but people still insist on say "but inlfation". The most recent excuse I got was "but software is expensive!".

 

[Heartbreaker]

I've made that argument multple times in multiple places, but people still insist on say "but inlfation". The most recent excuse I got was "but software is expensive!".

CPU dies are smaller, and are sold without memory and expensive power stages, heavy duty coolers, fans etc...

I'd bet they make more unit profit on CPUs, than GPUs.

 

[blckgrffn]

CPU dies are smaller, and are sold without memory and expensive power stages, heavy duty coolers, fans etc...

I'd bet they make more unit profit on CPUs, than GPUs.

Absolutely! And the big money ones are usually huuuuge margin given that they don’t always use much more silicon than the lower tiers but just bin better/more reliably.

Let’s talk about power consumption bloat and GPUs too - those old “hot and and hungry” models like the 5900U are delightfully tiny and sip power by comparison. Remember when we used to use a floppy connector for GPUs? Then a Molex 4 pin like a HD? Now they are 400w+ monsters with so much PCB and cooler mass - it has to cost more to produce and ship and box and all that. It’s just the physics of logistics.

CPUs? As a functional unit are so much closer to their older brethren, even with power consumption that has also moonshot, comparatively.

GPUs are add in computers in their own right.

 

[Thunder 57]

I'd bet they make more unit profit on CPUs, than GPUs.

I'm sure they did/do. But GPU's were still making money. Then crpto happened and Nvidia/AMD saw that people would buy GPU's even at stupid high prices so they kept them there. They probably make far better margins now than say 10 years ago.

I always say a product is worth what people will pay for it so I don't blame Nvidia/AMD. But to say it's because of inflation is crap IMHO.

 

[gdansk]

I've made that argument multple times in multiple places, but people still insist on say "but inlfation". The most recent excuse I got was "but software is expensive!".

Monetary inflation has next to nothing to do with the current GPU pricing problem. If there is an excuse from political economy it would be unexpected taxes (i.e. tariffs even for Vietnam and Taiwan assembled GPUs).

But ultimately it is a supply problem that will take time to alleviate. Both AMD and Nvidia acted seriously to avoid their excess inventory problem like last time. But it sucks for consumers. Especially since graphics cards are lower priority than their other products when it comes down to it.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I prefer the AMD way of GPUs. Keeping them less than 400W TBP. Anything more is not needed for games and if it's available, it will either make game developers extremely lazy with trash coded games or they will put in eye candy settings in there that only the highest end GPU can run well. Compared to both Nvidia in GPUs and Intel in CPUs, AMD has almost (let's forget about Bulldozer et al and the crazy dual GPU monsters) always been the sane one. The most consumer friendly one.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I prefer the AMD way of GPUs. Keeping them less than 400W TBP.

Navi40 was a monstrous furnace.

Anything more is not needed for games and if it's available, it will either make game developers extremely lazy with trash coded games or they will put in eye candy settings in there that only the highest end GPU can run well.

yes the biggest bar.
they need it now more than ever.

 

[igor_kavinski]

they need it now more than ever.

NO

They are doing just fine and dandy.

4090/5090 level GPUs can burn in hell.

(Apologies to the owners of these cards. Hope you get a free pony in return as compensation)

 

[Thunder 57]

I prefer the AMD way of GPUs. Keeping them less than 400W TBP. Anything more is not needed for games and if it's available, it will either make game developers extremely lazy with trash coded games or they will put in eye candy settings in there that only the highest end GPU can run well. Compared to both Nvidia in GPUs and Intel in CPUs, AMD has almost (let's forget about Bulldozer et al and the crazy dual GPU monsters) always been the sane one. The most consumer friendly one.

400W seems excessive to me but maybe because I've never exceeded 200W. I would go up to 250W, maybe 300W but I don't see myself going higher. I don't need a space heater for a computer.

 

[adroc_thurston]

They are doing just fine and dandy.

lmao no.

4090/5090 level GPUs can burn in hell.

AMD needs them more than ever.
Well, these are babymode.
They need something 800w.

 

[Thunder 57]

lmao no.

AMD needs them more than ever.
Well, these are babymode.
They need something 800w.

Why not more? Lets use up a whole 120V circuit.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Why not more? Lets use up a whole 120V circuit.

heheh dumb mericans with their crappy power

FSR4 has helped AMD's perception far more then i expected. A Halo card would do well now if they had one.......
i have a 7900xtx i would have bought a halo rdna4, now im waiting /hoping to get a PSSR/RDNA3 target'd FSR4.

edit: if you want to learn how to do power properly come to Australia, i shudder every time i go to the US of A and have to touch a power point.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Lets use up a whole 120V circuit.

Most people have 230V and stuff.

FSR4 has helped AMD's perception far more then i expected.

yeah they like literally plastered it over 9060XT pptware.

 

[igor_kavinski]

They need something 800w.

You are giving off vibes of being a sole GPU distributor for some region...

 

[adroc_thurston]

You are giving off vibes of being a sole GPU distributor for some region...

No, I just like winning.
If you look at AMD's server roadmap, it's full of parts that are focused on #winning.
They gotta win. If you win, you become the market's divine sovereign.

 

[igor_kavinski]

They gotta win. If you win, you become the market's divine sovereign.

No thanks. I would like to be able to afford AMD GPUs in the future. Or at least as long as I live. Would rather have them NOT win.

 

[adroc_thurston]

No thanks. I would like to be able to afford AMD GPUs in the future. Or at least as long as I live. Would rather have them NOT win.

see that's a problem.
You want them to lose and stay poor.
That's bad.

 

[igor_kavinski]

see that's a problem.
You want them to lose and stay poor.
That's bad.

No. I want them to stay affordable. Like they are now. They aren't losing. They are still No.2 which is good enough in my books. Their only threat is Intel. Nvidia isn't a problem since they are doing so great at retaining their customers (NOT!). In the best ever scenario, Nvidia exits the gaming market out of sheer boredom and we are left forever without >400W cards. I would love that future.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I want them to stay affordable

That's bad. Poor. Low margin. For poor people (that's bad).

They aren't losing

No halo == losing.

They are still No.2

Horrible thing.

In the best ever scenario, Nvidia exits the gaming market out of sheer boredom

No one ditches free revenue at good margin.

 

[Thunder 57]

Most people have 230V and stuff.

yeah they like literally plastered it over 9060XT pptware.

Most of the world sure. But the US generally only has 220V in areas for things like A/C or dryers. It could be worse. Japan is basically split in half between 110V 60Hz and 110V 50Hz. Though to be fair that usually isn't an issue.

 

[igor_kavinski]

No one ditches free revenue at good margin.

That might be their only revenue left if Tenstorrent, Cerberas and Gaudi destroy CUDA overnight. One can dream.