Really old thread somebody bumped.

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: rbV5
There is no Nvidia answer to AIW 9700+ period, and their VIVO support took last generation-off.

Whachoo talkin about Willis?

It may not have a tv tuner, but it's a VIVO nV4X card with hardware WMV decoding? And this card smokes a 9700Pro at modern games?

You can also SLI it for ~6800GT performance with your VIVO.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: rbV5
There is no Nvidia answer to AIW 9700+ period, and their VIVO support took last generation-off.

Whachoo talkin about Willis?

It may not have a tv tuner, but it's a VIVO nV4X card with hardware WMV decoding? And this card smokes a 9700Pro at modern games?

You can also SLI it for ~6800GT performance with your VIVO.

"All" Radeon cards 9500+ feature hardware WMV decoding, and "any" VIVO card is a mere shadow of an AIW card feature wise, both with software bundle and hardware. Typical for the nvidia faithfull to minimize ATI's superior feature set with a "gee its can capture video and its nvidia, so it just must be >AIW"

hardly suprising coming from you Rollo.

 

[rbV5]

ATI?s ALL-IN-WONDER line is the undisputed heavyweight champion when it comes to multimedia graphics cards, and has been for nearly a decade. No other multimedia solution combines so much into one package so perfectly. NVIDIA has gone through multiple generations of Personal Cinema products now, and while they?ve certainly improved, they?re still on the heels of ATI. As a result, NVIDIA hasn?t introduced a new Personal Cinema product for over a year; they?ve essentially thrown in the towel and are now focused on their NVTV initiative of dedicated TV tuner cards. This leaves ALL-IN-WONDER in a class of its own.


Firing Squad Editors Choice award March 1, 2005

Yea, Keep talking

 

[BenSkywalker]

Did you try turning off Catalyst AI?

Where? I keep hearing about this and it isn't anywhere that I can find in my control panel.

Likewise we have a bunch of people pretending nVidia's drivers are the holy grail which is also false.

Who?

ATi tends to have more visual glitches and general incompatibilities but nVidia's drivers fall over much more often, and fall over hard.

CCC installed on my rig=BSOD all day long. I don't hold that against ATi as at least they offer the option of not running that poor attempt at a satire of a feature.

Considering 1.4 has only recently become the minimum standard I don't see any issue there.

What game requires higher then 1.1?

AIW- You should make clear that you are talking about the extreme low end in terms of video features when you compare nVidia to ATi- it's like arguing about whether a Pinto or Chevette is better. Matrox is leagues beyond either of them(and their price reflects that ).

 

[rbV5]

If you're looking for a high-performance AGP upgrade with multimedia features galore, the All-in-Wonder X800 XT is the best deal around. In fact, the card offers such good value that we're giving it our Editor's Choice award. Now, can we have a PCI Express version at the same price, please?

Tech Report Editor Choice Award 6-15-05

A more critical review that rightfully nails AIW on some good points, advanced features like The lack of silent background recording, and being loud for a true Home Theater solution (which of course it is not), but comments like and the All-in-Wonder looks like a phenomenal deal considering its multimedia extras and bundled Remote Wonder II.
say it all. The AIW X800XT is in a league by itself, VIVO cards don't hold a candle to it obviously.

I could go on.

 

[rbV5]

You should make clear that you are talking about the extreme low end in terms of video features when you compare nVidia to ATi- it's like arguing about whether a Pinto or Chevette is better. Matrox is leagues beyond either of them(and their price reflects that

Right Ben, you want to link Matrox's awesome superior multimedia card with advanced video features and back it up with a critical review that backs you up?

 

[rbV5]

CCC installed on my rig=BSOD all day long. I don't hold that against ATi as at least they offer the option of not running that poor attempt at a satire of a feature

Funny, I can't recall a single BSOD from CCC testing over the past 13 months on several platforms, I don't even recall any reports of one, although I could have missed it.

 

[rbV5]

Where? I keep hearing about this and it isn't anywhere that I can find in my control panel.

It's in CCC or a third party utility like ATI tray tool (IIRC)...its not available in the legacy control panel (this is common knowlege)

 

[rbV5]

What game requires higher then 1.1?

Battlefield 2 for starters...where have you been?

 

[5150Joker]

I have a 7800 GTX clocked at 500 core/1360 memory and it doesn't run BF 2 a whole lot better than my old P4 system with an X800XT PE. Just as a comparison, with the X800XT PE I was running at 1280x960 on a CRT with all settings on medium and averaging 30-70 fps depending on the situation. After rebuilding my PC with an AMD 64 3000+@2.6 ghz, 1 GB Corsair XMS 3500C2 BH5 ram and a 7800 GTX , I'm running the game on an lcd widescreen display at 1680x1050 with all settings set to medium and getting roughly the same fps as my XT PE did at a lower resolution. So if you take the HardOCP approach then yeah the 7800 is obviously a faster card since it is matching the XT PE's performance at a higher resolution. However, I'm left feeling as if I should have gotten more for my money ($647 shipped for the card). I would have been happy if I got a constant 60+ fps with this card at native resolution but it doesn't even come close. All I know is that if R520 surfaces with 32 pipelines, this 7800 GTX is going straight to ebay. Oh by the way guys, TSAA is not all it's cracked up to be, you can hardly even tell that its turned on since it makes very little image quality difference. As far as HDR in SC:CT (came w/my leadtek) I wasn't blown away. Basically you're not missing out on anything as far as PS 3.0/HDR if you have an ATi card. My advice for people on the fence is to wait on the R520 and then decide which card you like best (7800 Ultra should be out by then though I hear its only a slightly higher clocked 24 pipe part).

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: rbV5
There is no Nvidia answer to AIW 9700+ period, and their VIVO support took last generation-off.

Whachoo talkin about Willis?

It may not have a tv tuner, but it's a VIVO nV4X card with hardware WMV decoding? And this card smokes a 9700Pro at modern games?

You can also SLI it for ~6800GT performance with your VIVO.

"All" Radeon cards 9500+ feature hardware WMV decoding, and "any" VIVO card is a mere shadow of an AIW card feature wise, both with software bundle and hardware. Typical for the nvidia faithfull to minimize ATI's superior feature set with a "gee its can capture video and its nvidia, so it just must be >AIW"

hardly suprising coming from you Rollo.

Well one is $1-$5, the other is... $100... which do you expect to be better?

Id personally take a seperate capture card over the problems i had with my AIW9700 any day.

 

[rbV5]

Well one is $1-$5, the other is... $100... which do you expect to be better?

Whats $1 again? The AIW X800XT is cheaper than the non-AIW counterpart, so its better and cheaper and unmatched, maybe I'm missing your point though. The AIW 9700 also continues to be a great card itself certainly better all around, and much more feature packed than that VIVO even if not quite as fast in gaming performance. ATI and its partners offer VIVO cards as well, in likely more models that Nvidia's partners considering none of the 6800 cards feature it.

I do remember you trying to capture video game from TV-output to analog input if thats what you're talking about Acanthus? I agree, and remember that it gave you fits, but hardly a standard use, and falls under YMMV (not to say that you didn't have legit issues, as I'm quite sure you did have them)

Next, I expect Ben will be linking a Matrox Parhelia as his "way better multimedia card" to prove Nvidia > ATI. Good Grief you guys :roll:

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: rbV5
"All" Radeon cards 9500+ feature hardware WMV decoding, and "any" VIVO card is a mere shadow of an AIW card feature wise, both with software bundle and hardware. Typical for the nvidia faithfull to minimize ATI's superior feature set with a "gee its can capture video and its nvidia, so it just must be >AIW"

hardly suprising coming from you Rollo.

And typical for those who are given ATI cards for free to slander nVidia, even when their benefactor is spiralling ever downward in market share and losses are climbing by the millions?

No one is saying the AIW cards aren't the most fully featured multimedia cards, they obviously are.

However, this thread is about the R520 being delayed yet again, not 9700Pro AIWs?

I was disputing your insinuation that nVidia doesn't have a mid range gaming performance VIVO solution, when 6600GT SLI is clearly mid range in both price and performance.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Well one is $1-$5, the other is... $100... which do you expect to be better?

Whats $1 again? The AIW X800XT is cheaper than the non-AIW counterpart, so its better and cheaper and unmatched, maybe I'm missing your point though. The AIW 9700 also continues to be a great card itself certainly better all around, and much more feature packed than that VIVO even if not quite as fast in gaming performance. ATI and its partners offer VIVO cards as well, in likely more models that Nvidia's partners considering none of the 6800 cards feature it.

I do remember you trying to capture video game from TV-output to analog input if thats what you're talking about Acanthus? I agree, and remember that it gave you fits, but hardly a standard use, and falls under YMMV (not to say that you didn't have legit issues, as I'm quite sure you did have them)

Next, I expect Ben will be linking a Matrox Parhelia as his "way better multimedia card" to prove Nvidia > ATI. Good Grief you guys :roll:

Whatever dude, not everyone is into video capture. You are, that's great. So buy your AIW and be done with it and stop trying to defend it to people that don't really care about it. VIVO is a cheap bonus that comes with most NV cards standard. It offers people that may or may not want to capture video in a simple manner. But if you think ATI's solution offers professional level video capture and editing tools, your just kidding yourself and anyone else you tell that to. It's for amateurs as is VIVO. It all comes down to an acceptable, but cheesy, home end user video at best. So, buy what you need if you haven't already, stop defending something that barely anyone cares about except "amateur" home video studio buffs. I have seen REAL professional video studios. Don't know if you have, but rest assured you will not find an ATI AIW card anywhere in sight. Its for the home user with an extra hundred dollar bill to burn.

No disrespect intended, but give it a rest. We all know you were "royally screwed" by NV when you bought a 6800 and expected video processing heaven and didn't get it as advertised you would. You fixed your problem and moved on. Good for you.

P.S. If this post was entirely out of context, I apologize. I just hate seeing something go back and forth for 40 posts (exaggeration) and get nothing resolved. such a waste of time and keystrokes. :beer: <---- Peace offering.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: munky
How about this benchmark?
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/radeon-x850xt/index.x?pg=8
The x850xtpe even beats a 6800gt sli setup at 16x12 4x8x, and trounces the single ultra, what are you gonna whine that techreport is biased too? Or that nobody can tell the difference between 48 and 34 fps? :laugh:

No, I'm going to say, go to the next pagewhere you'll see the 6800U performing on par with the X850s and the SLI stomping them flat, like usual. :roll:
Anybody can find an isolated benchmark to prove their point, the real trick is showing a pattern of benches that support your point at a given setting?

The big problem with posts like yours is that you sound like a broken record player about the soft shadows, sm3, and all that crap.

It's nice you like your games to look like the old days, some of us want them to look more realistic?

The truth is, cards as old as the radeon 9500 are fully capable of doing soft shadows,

Ah, the old "the card could do it if only the developers would code it". Who cares? If they're not, the end result is the same? (you don't get to see it on that card)

and if one half-wit developer choses to implement them in an nv-specific way, then I'll just chose not to buy their half-a$sed game. The same thing goes for the morons who'd rather code sm1.1 than 2.0. I've seen demos of soft shadows, dynamic branching, and even HDR done without sm3, so the x850 is fully capable of such effects if the developer choses to implement them appropriately. Hell, even an 9800p can do them, so stop with the bull$hit already.

Yeeeearrggggg! It's nice you'll choose not to play games where the developers didn't go out of their way to retrocode for the primitive ATI GPUs, but a lot of us want to see HDR and soft shadows, or SM3 vs SM1.1? You sound like a 3dfx apologist in the days when framerate was about the only card they had to play.

LOL.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/far_cry_1.3/page3.asp
If you like to brag about how much more realistic the 6800u can render scenes with hdr and sm3, then you must think 1024*768 NO AA is really cool, because thats the best your 6800u can muster without dropping below 60fps.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: munky
How about this benchmark?
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/radeon-x850xt/index.x?pg=8
The x850xtpe even beats a 6800gt sli setup at 16x12 4x8x, and trounces the single ultra, what are you gonna whine that techreport is biased too? Or that nobody can tell the difference between 48 and 34 fps? :laugh:

No, I'm going to say, go to the next pagewhere you'll see the 6800U performing on par with the X850s and the SLI stomping them flat, like usual. :roll:
Anybody can find an isolated benchmark to prove their point, the real trick is showing a pattern of benches that support your point at a given setting?

The big problem with posts like yours is that you sound like a broken record player about the soft shadows, sm3, and all that crap.

It's nice you like your games to look like the old days, some of us want them to look more realistic?

The truth is, cards as old as the radeon 9500 are fully capable of doing soft shadows,

Ah, the old "the card could do it if only the developers would code it". Who cares? If they're not, the end result is the same? (you don't get to see it on that card)

and if one half-wit developer choses to implement them in an nv-specific way, then I'll just chose not to buy their half-a$sed game. The same thing goes for the morons who'd rather code sm1.1 than 2.0. I've seen demos of soft shadows, dynamic branching, and even HDR done without sm3, so the x850 is fully capable of such effects if the developer choses to implement them appropriately. Hell, even an 9800p can do them, so stop with the bull$hit already.

Yeeeearrggggg! It's nice you'll choose not to play games where the developers didn't go out of their way to retrocode for the primitive ATI GPUs, but a lot of us want to see HDR and soft shadows, or SM3 vs SM1.1? You sound like a 3dfx apologist in the days when framerate was about the only card they had to play.

LOL.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/far_cry_1.3/page3.asp
If you like to brag about how much more realistic the 6800u can render scenes with hdr and sm3, then you must think 1024*768 NO AA is really cool, because thats the best your 6800u can muster without dropping below 60fps.

Something wrong with 59fps?

I suggest that rather than quote specific sites to your needs, why don't you agree to use one particular site between the both of you? Not just ones that suit your needs and releative points. Why not just agree to use Anandtech's benchmarks? or H or whatever, Just agree on something. Then discuss (fight) it out.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rbV5

CCC installed on my rig=BSOD all day long. I don't hold that against ATi as at least they offer the option of not running that poor attempt at a satire of a feature

Funny, I can't recall a single BSOD from CCC testing over the past 13 months on several platforms, I don't even recall any reports of one, although I could have missed it.

I haven't had BSODs but I've had .NET errors, as have other people. Yeah, I've had .NET framework installed. It works when it feels like it. (This is on my old PC, not the one in my sig.) I don't like the fact ATI forces you to use their .NET-bloated CCC to access any of the new features they added since they deprecated the legacy tab-based control panel.

My GeForce 6800 still wins me over my Radeon 9500 because of its 3D performance (obviously) and superior drivers/driver setup. My Radeon has the edge on 2D quality and it's slightly noticable.

Even though ATI has AIW, their stock is still plummetting.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050709-5077.html?27048

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: munky
LOL.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/far_cry_1.3/page3.asp
If you like to brag about how much more realistic the 6800u can render scenes with hdr and sm3, then you must think 1024*768 NO AA is really cool, because thats the best your 6800u can muster without dropping below 60fps.

If 60fps is your minimum, you must be used to some low settings with your card Famous Munky? In any case, I'd rather have the option to run HDR at 10X7 0X0X than never get to see it because I bought a retread of the hot chip of 2003!

In any case, this thread is about R520s, which compete with 7800GTXs (or at least would if ATI could figure out how to make them) and they do a bit better on the HDR? Especially at SC:CT!

 

[cryptonomicon]

uh, excuse me,

could someone explain or post a link relating to what the f "taping out" exactly is and how it relates to the fab process.

thanks.!@1.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: munky
LOL.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/far_cry_1.3/page3.asp
If you like to brag about how much more realistic the 6800u can render scenes with hdr and sm3, then you must think 1024*768 NO AA is really cool, because thats the best your 6800u can muster without dropping below 60fps.

If 60fps is your minimum, you must be used to some low settings with your card Famous Munky? In any case, I'd rather have the option to run HDR at 10X7 0X0X than never get to see it because I bought a retread of the hot chip of 2003!

In any case, this thread is about R520s, which compete with 7800GTXs (or at least would if ATI could figure out how to make them) and they do a bit better on the HDR? Especially at SC:CT!

Unlike the infamous rollo, I didnt shell out $400+ for a card so I could have the option to play at 10x7 0x0x just to see some exagerrated lighting effects. HDR doesn't impress me when you have to give up AA and higher resolutions to use it. Now that I think about it, a developer can just as easily write a pixel shader to oversaturate lighting and kill performance while they're at it.

In the case of the 7800gtx, enjoy it while it has no competition. If, however, the r520 does turn out with 32 pipes at 600mhz, and you think the 7800gtx would be able to compete with it, you're delusional.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: munky
Unlike the infamous rollo, I didnt shell out $400+ for a card so I could have the option to play at 10x7 0x0x just to see some exagerrated lighting effects. HDR doesn't impress me when you have to give up AA and higher resolutions to use it. Now that I think about it, a developer can just as easily write a pixel shader to oversaturate lighting and kill performance while they're at it.

There's that old ATI chestnut again- "ATI cards can do anything nV cards can, if only developers would do it!" LOL- funny how they don't, isn't it?

In the case of the 7800gtx, enjoy it while it has no competition. If, however, the r520 does turn out with 32 pipes at 600mhz, and you think the 7800gtx would be able to compete with it, you're delusional.

:roll: Why exactly would I give a fat rats a$$ if the R520 is faster than a 7800GTX?
A. I'll buy one, unlike you.
B. There are no games I can't run at the limits of my CPU and monitor anyway? What exactly can the R520 offer me Famous Munky? My performance is already pretty much insane.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: munky
Unlike the infamous rollo, I didnt shell out $400+ for a card so I could have the option to play at 10x7 0x0x just to see some exagerrated lighting effects. HDR doesn't impress me when you have to give up AA and higher resolutions to use it. Now that I think about it, a developer can just as easily write a pixel shader to oversaturate lighting and kill performance while they're at it.

There's that old ATI chestnut again- "ATI cards can do anything nV cards can, if only developers would do it!" LOL- funny how they don't, isn't it?

In the case of the 7800gtx, enjoy it while it has no competition. If, however, the r520 does turn out with 32 pipes at 600mhz, and you think the 7800gtx would be able to compete with it, you're delusional.

:roll: Why exactly would I give a fat rats a$$ if the R520 is faster than a 7800GTX?
A. I'll buy one, unlike you.
B. There are no games I can't run at the limits of my CPU and monitor anyway? What exactly can the R520 offer me Famous Munky? My performance is already pretty much insane.

It doesnt matter to you. But perhaps the potential increased performance of the R520 matters to other people? And you can stop bashing individuals who hold off on the (IMO) overpriced 7800 cards?

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Rollo
:roll: Why exactly would I give a fat rats a$$ if the R520 is faster than a 7800GTX?
A. I'll buy one, unlike you.

You just contradicted yourself right there...

You'll buy the r520, but only after you oc your 7800gtx until it blows up and still cant match it. And you would care if the r520 is faster (although probably wont admit it) , because you won't tolerate the humiliation of your favorite campany being pushed into the obscurity of second place. And then I'll buy 2 and Xfire them together just to piss you off. :evil:

 

[fstime]

THE R520 IS COMING, DONT WORRY.

ITS GONNA HAVE 32 PIPES COMPARED TO THE LITTLE G70'S 24, AWWW HOW CUTE.

LOOKS LIKE NVIDIA JUST RUSHED TO GET SOMTHIGN TO THE MARKET.

TO BAD, THERE CARD WILL GET SQUASHED.






LOL, SLI ROCKS, I CANT LIVE WITHOUT IT, BEST $1000 I EVER SPENT, SLI G70 WILL CRUSH THE R520 SO TO BAD, LOOKS LIKE NVIDA WAS ONE STEP AHEAD THIS TIME, LIKE ALWAYS, LOLER SKATES.

HAVE FUN WAITING FOR YOUR R520, IF STUPID ATI CAN EVEN MAKE ONE BEFORE THE END OF THIS YEAR. MAYBE THOSE CANADIANS SHOULD JUST STICK WITH THEIR 2002 FEATURE SET, EVER HEARD OF HDR, SOFTSHADORWS, DKKD, SSS, FSKFL?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: Rollo
:roll: Why exactly would I give a fat rats a$$ if the R520 is faster than a 7800GTX?
A. I'll buy one, unlike you.

You just contradicted yourself right there...

You'll buy the r520, but only after you oc your 7800gtx until it blows up and still cant match it.

A. I don't OC high end parts. B. I have 7800GTX SLI, I don't need to. C. Everyone here knows (or should) that I buy the top of the line or second of both ATI and nVidia and have for the last 10 years or so. I've posted several times that I'll buy a R520 to check it out.

And you would care if the r520 is faster (although probably wont admit it) , because you won't tolerate the humiliation of your favorite campany being pushed into the obscurity of second place. And then I'll buy 2 and Xfire them together just to piss you off. :evil:

Does it "piss you off" that I have 7800GTX SLI? If not, why would it "piss me off" if you had R520 Crossfire? If it does "piss you off", you're stupid.

Apparently you don't understand that I'm a working adult, if I want an R520 Crossfire, I can just buy one? :roll: (it's not likely I will though as I have two SLI rigs and doubt Crossfire can give me anything worth switching for)

Yeah, you're "evil" all right. :roll: "Lord have mercy! I'm just dreading the day when Famous Munky upgrades his video card and leaves me in the dust!" LOL- you have some interesting ideas......