Really old thread somebody bumped.

[dfloyd]

Who cares, honestly till the next gen hits the $300 price range its still not going to be a mainstream product.

Say 7800s stay in their price range until they have some competition. Ati releases cards taht directly compete with the 7800 three months down the road that do directly compete for closer to $300. Then that will be when it matters. I could honestly care less whats released at $600-$700 as thats out of 99% of peoples price range for a new video card. Sure some will buy them, but honestly its a very small market. What will matter is when and what happens at the mid range price, And if Ati has something out within three months that competes at that price range then all will be good, if they dont and Nvidia brings the 7800 down closer to that price range soon (The smartest thing they could do imo as they would get mucho market share if they did) then Nvidia will prove to be the man on the block, but all this can change in six months. So back to the point, I guess that would be easy if we knew what the point was.

But claiming some victory or loss based on this info is surely short sighted and honestly is nothing to get dismayed or excited about, give it a few months, watch the market share and then we will see. But honestly this is just another day of ssdd.

Edit: With all this said though its not really going to happen. The chances of Nvidia dropping their prices quickly on the 7800 to increase Market share are about as likely as George Bush admitting he lied about why he chose to go to war. Its not going to happen. Nvidia came up most wanting to be like the Milkman himself, father Intel, and we all saw what the market was like before the K7. Slow, stagnate, overpriced, and had one main company milking for all they could milk. Thats the company Nvidia has claimed they want to be like so dont expect any decent drops in prices until Ati comes out and forces them. Sad though as its a very short sighted view imo by Nvidia.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ronnn
Nice to see the op and the salesman take the inquirer as gospel. Must be a first! Anyways all is not lost. If the R580 eventually surpasses Nvidia (lower cost for same performance) and xbox 360 is out and selling well - will be the same cast of characters on different sides of the fence casting their lines. Personally I am waiting to see the midrange lineups before pronouncing ATI dead.

You know the Inq is on more than it is off. A lot more on. I never said I take it as gospel so where did you get that from? Oh, thats right, from nowhere. Smoothe.

And why is it "Nice to see."? Doesn't anybody say what they mean anymore? It's like not cool to talk normally instead of sarcastically or something?

 

[Killrose]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Be prepared to be pawned by the mighty R520 nvidot!!

Pawned? How much do you think ATI can get for a nVidia fanboy?

once in production, the rumbling sounds of moving R520 GPU chips reminicent of mighty heards of Buffalo you will hear!!

I'll keep my 7800GTX, it's pretty quiet and doesn't take up nearly as many slots as a heard of Buffalo.

Maybe so, but Buffalo tastes better

 

[xtknight]

Post #1000! Sorry just had to do it. Ooh I'm a "golden member" now how special.

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: BroadbandGamer
In the meantime I'll be enjoying my 7800 GTX.

If and when ATI comes out with their nex gen card and it does in fact blow away whatever NVIDIA has, I will have no problem selling this GTX on ebay.

I'm loyal to no ONE company.

Well, its generally wiser to stick with Nvidia for better driver support all around (with performance being equal, but we all know how that isnt true at all right now).

But you would swap a 7800GTX for a R520? It wont be THAT much faster.. you guys need to quit pretending this thing will be pumping out 50extra FPS out in BF2 than the GF7.. it wont. You can hold me to that as well. If the R520 can push 50+ higher FPS in high resolution over the GTX I'll eat crow for life.

Then count in the ENORMOUS price the R520 will command, while Nvidia will have prices lowered (and they will be able to) to keep ATI hurting.

Toss in a new core from ATI, with new drivers.. and you'd swap a very mature GF7 for what is probably not a huge performance leap (and it wont come cheap, regardless) and typical ATI driver support?

I'd call you a fool.

I'll take stable, mature GF7 and SLI drivers (esp by that point in time) with sick performance over a new, untested, expensive R520.
I doubt many GTX owners will be swapping out for one.

This wont be like the GF7 versus the GF8.. I suspect the 24pipe R520 will be comparable to the 24pipe GTX, and the 32 pipe cards being neck and neck.

Thats if ATI is lucky, gets it out the door, then for a comparable price and then pulls a Nvidia and has exceptional drivers ready for it too.
Its too much for them. I've been predicting this for a long time when they moved to a new core and/or process.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: g3pro
Well, ATi is f***ed, exactly as I predicted. And the 8800 will be competing with the R520, and the 7800 will be competing with the X800-series, just as I had predicted.


What say you, ATi fanbois?

I'm about to buy a bunch of ATI stock. Seriuosly. The r520 may be delayed, but I doubt Ati will do something as stupid as using a 128bit bus instead of a 256bit one, or having half the pipes of the competition. So, even though I'm not upgrading this gen anyway, I'm gonna make some profit when this thing gets released.

Anyway, I think the r520 must be a real monster card if they're having so much trouble with it. I doubt Ati would retape twice a measly 24 pipe card at a puny 450 mhz. Even if they had to go down to 400 mhz because of leakage, it would give the 7800 some decent competition. No, if this thing is getting delayed so much, I expect nothing less than 32 pipes at 500-600 mhz.

 

[jelkukipik]

This is the reason why XBOX360 will suck...

 

[boutrousboutrous]

This could potentially put ATI behind for a couple of years.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: southpawuni

Originally posted by: BroadbandGamer
In the meantime I'll be enjoying my 7800 GTX.

If and when ATI comes out with their nex gen card and it does in fact blow away whatever NVIDIA has, I will have no problem selling this GTX on ebay.

I'm loyal to no ONE company.

Well, its generally wiser to stick with Nvidia for better driver support all around (with performance being equal, but we all know how that isnt true at all right now).

But you would swap a 7800GTX for a R520? It wont be THAT much faster.. you guys need to quit pretending this thing will be pumping out 50extra FPS out in BF2 than the GF7.. it wont. You can hold me to that as well. If the R520 can push 50+ higher FPS in high resolution over the GTX I'll eat crow for life.

It doenst need to pump 50 frames faster. Even 10 frames faster is enough to declare it the new king of graphics cards. But that is how technology is - one day A is faster, tomorrow B is faster, then C.....

But if you think a full-fledged 32 pipelines 600mhz ATI card will not be faster than a 430mhz (i dont care how efficient), 24 pipeline Nvidia card, then you have another one coming... It is practically unimaginable for ATI to release a card slower than Nvidia's. The only reason why they keep delaying the release is because of poor yields. I am sure they could easily release a 24 pipeline 500 mhz ATI card that will be close to Nvidia's performance. However, I think ATI is gunning for another 9700Pro lead.

you people are forgetting...ATI still has a larger overall market share than Nvidia. All this talk about ATI getting behind for 2 years is non-sense. Even if ATI lost this round, they would probably tie Nvidia in market share. Their cost savings for not implementing SM3.0 were always dismissed by Nvidia fanatics. Now, how much does SM3.0 help us?

Honestly I could care less if ATI is in this "bad" position or what. I just want fast(er) hardware. The faster ATi's card is over Nvidia's, the better it is for all of us. If ATI tapped out first and GeForce 7 was delayed, I would not declare ATI a winner until I saw Geforce 7. I dont understand why people try to put ATI's card down -- it's like wishing for worse performance? Progress is about improvement. Anyone who wishes or is against ATI's card being X times faster than 7800GTX cannot be considered a hardware enthusiast. If you guys are trying to make yourselves feel better that R520 wont be much faster than Nvidia, then enjoy the 7800GTX cards you currently own. For the rest of us it makes sense to wait.

Also ATI drivers are just as good as Nvidias. They release new ones every 1 month, vs. 6 months for Nvidia. Every company goes through ups and downs. So what Nvidia should have killed themselves when 9700Pro destroyed 4x00 series and 9800Pro 5x00 series? That lasted 2 years and here we have awesome geforce6 and 7 series. I also dont understand the talk about Geforce 8. People, it's been said that both companies extended their product cycles to 12-15 months. There will be no geforce 8 until next summer. There probably will be a refresh (ie 7800Ultra/R580 sometime in 6 months). Perhaps Nvidia will release a 90nm 32 pipeline 430 mhz G70 in 6 months to compete with ATI if there is a need. But this card wont be Geforce 8800.

 

[dornick]

damn it, you just had to go and be reasonable, didn't you?

 

[Rudee]

This thread hardly warrants a "OMFG!!!!!!" in the thread title.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn
Nice to see the op and the salesman take the inquirer as gospel. Must be a first! Anyways all is not lost. If the R580 eventually surpasses Nvidia (lower cost for same performance) and xbox 360 is out and selling well - will be the same cast of characters on different sides of the fence casting their lines. Personally I am waiting to see the midrange lineups before pronouncing ATI dead.

You know the Inq is on more than it is off. A lot more on. I never said I take it as gospel so where did you get that from? Oh, thats right, from nowhere. Smoothe.

And why is it "Nice to see."? Doesn't anybody say what they mean anymore? It's like not cool to talk normally instead of sarcastically or something?

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


Ummm dude? 225W would be the power at the G70's disposal with 75W from the PCI-E bus and 2 external 75W connectors. This does not mean the card will use it all. I do wish folks would use a little common sense when reading these things. And I also wish the inquirer would shrivel up and fold because they publish malinformitive crap like this.
225W would just be what is at the cards disposal. I'm guessing Nvidia would rather have more than enough than not enough. E.G. 225W instead of 150W.

Nothing against you Pontiac boy. Its just that whoever reads that is going to "oooohhh & ahhhhhh".

So much fud from the inquirer that it is not worth getting "depressed" about - assuming that wasn't flippant irony.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Rudee
This thread hardly warrants a "OMFG!!!!!!" in the thread title.

I think it does. Hence the title. If you can't deal, kindly pass it up.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn
Nice to see the op and the salesman take the inquirer as gospel. Must be a first! Anyways all is not lost. If the R580 eventually surpasses Nvidia (lower cost for same performance) and xbox 360 is out and selling well - will be the same cast of characters on different sides of the fence casting their lines. Personally I am waiting to see the midrange lineups before pronouncing ATI dead.

You know the Inq is on more than it is off. A lot more on. I never said I take it as gospel so where did you get that from? Oh, thats right, from nowhere. Smoothe.

And why is it "Nice to see."? Doesn't anybody say what they mean anymore? It's like not cool to talk normally instead of sarcastically or something?

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


Ummm dude? 225W would be the power at the G70's disposal with 75W from the PCI-E bus and 2 external 75W connectors. This does not mean the card will use it all. I do wish folks would use a little common sense when reading these things. And I also wish the inquirer would shrivel up and fold because they publish malinformitive crap like this.
225W would just be what is at the cards disposal. I'm guessing Nvidia would rather have more than enough than not enough. E.G. 225W instead of 150W.

Nothing against you Pontiac boy. Its just that whoever reads that is going to "oooohhh & ahhhhhh".

So much fud from the inquirer that it is not worth getting "depressed" about - assuming that wasn't flippant irony.

Like I said. More on than off. You just posted a reference to one of their "off" released articles. And your point? I thank you. :beer:

 

[Aries64]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: southpawuni

Originally posted by: BroadbandGamer
In the meantime I'll be enjoying my 7800 GTX.

If and when ATI comes out with their nex gen card and it does in fact blow away whatever NVIDIA has, I will have no problem selling this GTX on ebay.

I'm loyal to no ONE company.

Well, its generally wiser to stick with Nvidia for better driver support all around (with performance being equal, but we all know how that isnt true at all right now).

But you would swap a 7800GTX for a R520? It wont be THAT much faster.. you guys need to quit pretending this thing will be pumping out 50extra FPS out in BF2 than the GF7.. it wont. You can hold me to that as well. If the R520 can push 50+ higher FPS in high resolution over the GTX I'll eat crow for life.

It doenst need to pump 50 frames faster. Even 10 frames faster is enough to declare it the new king of graphics cards. But that is how technology is - one day A is faster, tomorrow B is faster, then C.....

But if you think a full-fledged 32 pipelines 600mhz ATI card will not be faster than a 430mhz (i dont care how efficient), 24 pipeline Nvidia card, then you have another one coming... It is practically unimaginable for ATI to release a card slower than Nvidia's. The only reason why they keep delaying the release is because of poor yields. I am sure they could easily release a 24 pipeline 500 mhz ATI card that will be close to Nvidia's performance. However, I think ATI is gunning for another 9700Pro lead.

you people are forgetting...ATI still has a larger overall market share than Nvidia. All this talk about ATI getting behind for 2 years is non-sense. Even if ATI lost this round, they would probably tie Nvidia in market share. Their cost savings for not implementing SM3.0 were always dismissed by Nvidia fanatics. Now, how much does SM3.0 help us?

Honestly I could care less if ATI is in this "bad" position or what. I just want fast(er) hardware. The faster ATi's card is over Nvidia's, the better it is for all of us. If ATI tapped out first and GeForce 7 was delayed, I would not declare ATI a winner until I saw Geforce 7. I dont understand why people try to put ATI's card down -- it's like wishing for worse performance? Progress is about improvement. Anyone who wishes or is against ATI's card being X times faster than 7800GTX cannot be considered a hardware enthusiast. If you guys are trying to make yourselves feel better that R520 wont be much faster than Nvidia, then enjoy the 7800GTX cards you currently own. For the rest of us it makes sense to wait.

Also ATI drivers are just as good as Nvidias. They release new ones every 1 month, vs. 6 months for Nvidia. Every company goes through ups and downs. So what Nvidia should have killed themselves when 9700Pro destroyed 4x00 series and 9800Pro 5x00 series? That lasted 2 years and here we have awesome geforce6 and 7 series. I also dont understand the talk about Geforce 8. People, it's been said that both companies extended their product cycles to 12-15 months. There will be no geforce 8 until next summer. There probably will be a refresh (ie 7800Ultra/R580 sometime in 6 months). Perhaps Nvidia will release a 90nm 32 pipeline 430 mhz G70 in 6 months to compete with ATI if there is a need. But this card wont be Geforce 8800.

Excellent post Russian Sensation. Nice to see another voice of reason. I see ATI and Nvidia flag-waving way too much in the forums. I mean who gives a fvck who makes a product as long as it works and performs the way its supposed to?

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: southpawuni

Originally posted by: BroadbandGamer
In the meantime I'll be enjoying my 7800 GTX.

If and when ATI comes out with their nex gen card and it does in fact blow away whatever NVIDIA has, I will have no problem selling this GTX on ebay.

I'm loyal to no ONE company.

Well, its generally wiser to stick with Nvidia for better driver support all around (with performance being equal, but we all know how that isnt true at all right now).

But you would swap a 7800GTX for a R520? It wont be THAT much faster.. you guys need to quit pretending this thing will be pumping out 50extra FPS out in BF2 than the GF7.. it wont. You can hold me to that as well. If the R520 can push 50+ higher FPS in high resolution over the GTX I'll eat crow for life.

It doenst need to pump 50 frames faster. Even 10 frames faster is enough to declare it the new king of graphics cards. But that is how technology is - one day A is faster, tomorrow B is faster, then C.....

Right. But it wont give ATI the lost marketshare back.
Being the king is great.. ATI was the single card king (debatable) last round and it didnt stop NV from having the overall superior product and sales.
Thats what matters, not releasing the Ultra Extreme Mega XT version.

But if you think a full-fledged 32 pipelines 600mhz ATI card will not be faster than a 430mhz (i dont care how efficient), 24 pipeline Nvidia card, then you have another one coming... It is practically unimaginable for ATI to release a card slower than Nvidia's.

You might have another thing coming then. You are essentially saying it would be hard NOT to beat the G70.. think again. So many things are not in ATIs favor this time, not to mention their first generation DX9C part, new core (means new drivers) not good for ATI.
Toss in yield problems, millions of lost dollars in retapes and you have yourself an expensive card that MIGHT not even beat the G70.. you dont know.. and since its not here, we cant say "CANT BE TOO HARD TO BEAT THE G70".. ya.. it will be.. and they cant even get whatever it is, out the door.

The only reason why they keep delaying the release is because of poor yields.

As far as you know. Thats what they tell you at least. It might be a complete joke of a chip too. Might have their video acceleration broken. a la GF6 purevideo??

I am sure they could easily release a 24 pipeline 500 mhz ATI card that will be close to Nvidia's performance. However, I think ATI is gunning for another 9700Pro lead.

But unfortunately, its looking more like a NV30 disaster... if they are LUCKY, they MIGHT come out with a very expensive card that takes the illusionary crown.. but they have already lost the round PR-wise, and marketshare wise.
Horrible setbacks that might affect them for years.

you people are forgetting...ATI still has a larger overall market share than Nvidia. All this talk about ATI getting behind for 2 years is non-sense. Even if ATI lost this round, they would probably tie Nvidia in market share. Their cost savings for not implementing SM3.0 were always dismissed by Nvidia fanatics. Now, how much does SM3.0 help us?

Its no more nonsense than your conjectures on the future of the R520. It is looking more like a NV30 than a R300 right now.

Honestly I could care less if ATI is in this "bad" position or what. I just want fast(er) hardware. The faster ATi's card is over Nvidia's, the better it is for all of us. If ATI tapped out first and GeForce 7 was delayed, I would not declare ATI a winner until I saw Geforce 7.

That wouldnt be right either, ATI does spectacular, gets a killer card out and you dont give them the crown?? This is BUSINESS.. you dont deliver.. YOU LOSE.
This isnt a fair game. Read about Intel to learn how this business works.. and MS might have some tips for you too. ATI is getting pummelled and there financial status and marketshare will show it eventually.

I dont understand why people try to put ATI's card down -- it's like wishing for worse performance? Progress is about improvement. Anyone who wishes or is against ATI's card being X times faster than 7800GTX cannot be considered a hardware enthusiast. If you guys are trying to make yourselves feel better that R520 wont be much faster than Nvidia, then enjoy the 7800GTX cards you currently own. For the rest of us it makes sense to wait.

No one is hoping the R520 is slow.. we just arent going to give ATI credit where no credit is due, either. Fair, right?
I have a company called bitboys.. dont bash my stuff, cuz its way faster than yours.. you just gotta wait for it. It will be out soon, promise.

Also ATI drivers are just as good as Nvidias. They release new ones every 1 month, vs. 6 months for Nvidia. Every company goes through ups and downs. So what Nvidia should have killed themselves when 9700Pro destroyed 4x00 series and 9800Pro 5x00 series? That lasted 2 years and here we have awesome geforce6 and 7 series. I also dont understand the talk about Geforce 8. People, it's been said that both companies extended their product cycles to 12-15 months. There will be no geforce 8 until next summer. There probably will be a refresh (ie 7800Ultra/R580 sometime in 6 months). Perhaps Nvidia will release a 90nm 32 pipeline 430 mhz G70 in 6 months to compete with ATI if there is a need. But this card wont be Geforce 8800.

No, ATIs drivers are not as good as NVs, exhibit A.. And the support is subpar as well, exhibit B.
Not to mention the first multithreaded drivers. The best OGL drivers, best linux drivers.. best Luna acceleration (yes, its true).
Full 64bit driver support before ATI.. better dual monitor support due to no surround gaming (vertical and horizontal span support) like Matrox and Nvidia has. ATI has no stereo 3D support. It took ATI FOREVER (cat 4.2 I believe) until they added 90degree rotation for LCDs in their drivers..
When you use ATIs refresh rate setting in their drivers, it will change the rate to 85hz or whatever, but if you task out of the game, on reentry it snaps back to 60hz!
At least in the opengl games that I task out of frequently.
Refresh force does not allow games such as Halo to load at all when its settings are applied.. its stupid that halo doesnt allow for forced rates- this is true. While NVs method even works with games like Halo, properly. I havent tested this particular part for a long time.. but what a silly issue.
Nvidia has a slick way to allow custom resolutions with custom refreshrates.. which is very useful for specific applications such as arcade emulation with MAME. This is very very cool and useful.
With ATI you have to go into the registry and do all kinds of dinking around to get them functioning properly, I wont go into the details but it sucks.

I could go on forever on ATI driver support. It is NOT on par. Period. Never was, and might not ever be now that they have to abandon the R300 driver core. Shame. They might have nailed down a few of the MANY things I've noticed over the years using their cards (yes I had a 9800 Pro), but I have a great memory.
Cant deny its nice that Forceware works for all Nvidia cards back to the TNT1 either.

Theres more than "reason" for you, theres the facts on ATIs driver support.
I'm tired of hearing they are on par with NV simply because they got WORKABLE, DECENT drivers out finally. Took 3 major "revisions" of the same core to get there.. but sure, its there.

 

[imported_g33k]

No, ATIs drivers are not as good as NVs, exhibit A.. And the support is subpar as well, exhibit B.
Not to mention the first multithreaded drivers. The best OGL drivers, best linux drivers.. best Luna acceleration (yes, its true).
Full 64bit driver support before ATI.. better dual monitor support due to no surround gaming (vertical and horizontal span support) like Matrox and Nvidia has. ATI has no stereo 3D support. It took ATI FOREVER (cat 4.2 I believe) until they added 90degree rotation for LCDs in their drivers..
When you use ATIs refresh rate setting in their drivers, it will change the rate to 85hz or whatever, but if you task out of the game, on reentry it snaps back to 60hz!
At least in the opengl games that I task out of frequently.
Refresh force does not allow games such as Halo to load at all when its settings are applied.. its stupid that halo doesnt allow for forced rates- this is true. While NVs method even works with games like Halo, properly. I havent tested this particular part for a long time.. but what a silly issue.
Nvidia has a slick way to allow custom resolutions with custom refreshrates.. which is very useful for specific applications such as arcade emulation with MAME. This is very very cool and useful.
With ATI you have to go into the registry and do all kinds of dinking around to get them functioning properly, I wont go into the details but it sucks.

I could go on forever on ATI driver support. It is NOT on par. Period. Never was, and might not ever be now that they have to abandon the R300 driver core. Shame. They might have nailed down a few of the MANY things I've noticed over the years using their cards (yes I had a 9800 Pro), but I have a great memory.
Cant deny its nice that Forceware works for all Nvidia cards back to the TNT1 either.

Theres more than "reason" for you, theres the facts on ATIs driver support.
I'm tired of hearing they are on par with NV simply because they got WORKABLE, DECENT drivers out finally. Took 3 major "revisions" of the same core to get there.. but sure, its there.

Nice post! I agree with you. I have owned a three cards within the past year. A 9800pro, x800XL and a 6800gt. I have to admit that nV's drivers are way more feature packed than ATi's. Particularly in dual monitor support and the refresh rate issues you stated. OGL games have been buggy with ATi cards as well. Wolfenstien and Doom3 would crash or stutter on my ATi cards, I never had a problem with the 6800gt

 

[fstime]

Hey, did you happen to start another ati vs nvidia thead?




THANKS

 

[BenSkywalker]

It is practically unimaginable for ATI to release a card slower than Nvidia's.

90nm has been a performance trap for everyone who has made the transition outside of AMD- not saying ATi will end up with the same fate but it happened even to Intel.

I am sure they could easily release a 24 pipeline 500 mhz ATI card that will be close to Nvidia's performance. However, I think ATI is gunning for another 9700Pro lead.

Remember that ATi has their 'little league' team on the R520- it is an upgrade to the R3x0 core much like the R420. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them to pull ahead of nVidia as long as they can handle the 90nm transition- but to expect them to pull ahead the way they did with the R9700Pro is quite frankly utterly delusional. The team working on the R520 has never been able to get even an across the board lead head to head against nVidia in any generation- the best they have ever done was to come up with the X850XTPE as a stop gap card to win more benches then they lost against the 6800Ultra(which was such a strong product nV cancelled their refresh). The R600 is the part to watch from ATi. The R520 may well end up being a decent amount faster then the 7800GTX, but you are insane if you think they are going to come close to R300 level performance edge.

you people are forgetting...ATI still has a larger overall market share than Nvidia.

Intel is ahead of ATi so their next part is going to be faster then the R520..... right.

Even if ATI lost this round, they would probably tie Nvidia in market share.

ATi was behind nV nearly 2:1 when the R300 launched, they were ahead by close to that margin by the time that generation was through. As of right now ATi has been slaughtered in the high end market for some time(the same Mercury research numbers you are using) and they need to rectify that.

The faster ATi's card is over Nvidia's, the better it is for all of us.

No, the closer in performance the two parts end up being the better it is for all of us.

I also dont understand the talk about Geforce 8. People, it's been said that both companies extended their product cycles to 12-15 months. There will be no geforce 8 until next summer. There probably will be a refresh (ie 7800Ultra/R580 sometime in 6 months). Perhaps Nvidia will release a 90nm 32 pipeline 430 mhz G70 in 6 months to compete with ATI if there is a need. But this card wont be Geforce 8800.

As of this point it appears the GF8800 is going to be the NV50 core going head to head with the R600 core. These are two cores that have been extremely anticipated for some time- both of the respective companies top teams and top development efforts have been on those projects for years. That should be the most interesting generation in some time(I wouldn't expect either of them too much before Longhorn though).

 

[BFG10K]

ATI Technologies expects to begin volume shipments of its 90nm graphics processing units (GPUs), the R520, R530 and RV515, in the middle of the third quarter, as unspecified issues for manufacturing on 90nm technology will soon be solved, according to ATI Taiwan. ATI also plans to introduce another flagship chip, the R580, in early 2006.

Click.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Isn't the 360's CPU clocked at 500MHz? 100MHz more for the 520 is a substantial boost, ATI might be doing this knowing they could strike a big blow and claim the flagship victory even if nVidia releases an "Ultra". 32 pipes should already give them quite the advantage, but at 600MHz, that's a death blow. But I'm not holding my breath.

However the one thing that doesn't make much sense is with ATI's gamble. Why else would they risk going to 90nm if they couldn't stand to gain advantage from it? nVidia did it to try and gain an advantage, however they made some foolish blunders along the way such as with not upgrading to a 256bit memory architecture with the 5800. It seems more likely that ATI believes they've got a winner on their hands, whether or not it is a winner is yet to be determined, it could be a huge blunder pretty much the same as what nVidia did with the 5800U, who knows, they might need the high clock speed to even keep up just as with the 5800U (making it the perfect card for Rollo). However in the past ATI has shown patience in upgrading their non crucial non flagship parts to new silicon first, such as with their 9600 and X800XL, so it seems odd that they should gamble on this round with their flagship, I think it tells us they're either going for the all-in win, or are doing it to merely stay in the game.

It'll be interesting to see what develops.

Im guessing they figured it was safe to move to 90nm seeing that most other chip manufacturers have worked their way into it and were doing well and got most of the bugs out using different manufacturing processes and all.

But something bit them thats for sure.

It also makes sense to go to the smaller die so they can make more chips per wafer. Especially when trasistor counts increase.

Like you said Time will tell and reveal all.

Also consider though that a 32 pipe GPU would weigh in even larger than the dual core Intel and AMD chips, yields on such a large chip, at such a high clock, would be a nightmare.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Hey, did you happen to start another ati vs nvidia thead?




THANKS

C'mon Zouks! Show me an ATI or Nvidia info thread that doesn't turn into a flamefest and I'll show you something very rare indeed.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: dfloyd
Who cares, honestly till the next gen hits the $300 price range its still not going to be a mainstream product.

When was a companies flagship product ever supposed to be "mainstream"? It costs more because you have to pay more to get the best, just like every other year you've been on the planet?

Edit: With all this said though its not really going to happen. The chances of Nvidia dropping their prices quickly on the 7800 to increase Market share are about as likely as George Bush admitting he lied about why he chose to go to war.

What do you think the appropriate response is to terrorists funded/harbored by foreign countries slaughtering 1000s of your neighbors for no reason whatsoever? Passing them the doobie and whimpering "please don't do that again, some people's kharma here was really messed up by this"? :roll:

Nvidia came up most wanting to be like the Milkman himself, father Intel, and we all saw what the market was like before the K7. Slow, stagnate, overpriced, and had one main company milking for all they could milk. Thats the company Nvidia has claimed they want to be like so dont expect any decent drops in prices until Ati comes out and forces them. Sad though as its a very short sighted view imo by Nvidia

Apparently you're against our whole capitalist supply/demand economy as this is the sort of market advantage every company in our country is striving for? What sort of work do you do that you hope for market forces lowering your profit margin like this? Why should nVidia strive to bring cutting edge products to market if not to make a larger profit margin? To make you happy? Uh huh.

 

[sandorski]

This could be a mixup, maybe even diversion. Perhaps they are indeed Taping something out, but not the 520, something perhaps, much more interesting.

 

[spazo]

Originally posted by: sandorski
This could be a mixup, maybe even diversion. Perhaps they are indeed Taping something out, but not the 520, something perhaps, much more interesting.

I agree, this is probably the R850 part...