Religion

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DVK916
I wouldn't cross the street to save a burning theist life.
When a theist dies, the world as a whole is elevated.

Am I correct in assuming you don't like people who believe in a God? Would you say that you hate them?

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
I wouldn't cross the street to save a burning theist life.
When a theist dies, the world as a whole is elevated.

Am I correct in assuming you don't like people who believe in a God? Would you say that you hate them?

No I don't hate then. I just think the world would becomes a better place when a theist dies.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
I wouldn't cross the street to save a burning theist life.
When a theist dies, the world as a whole is elevated.

Am I correct in assuming you don't like people who believe in a God? Would you say that you hate them?

No I don't hate then. I just think the world would becomes a better place when a theist dies.

Do you believe in leading through example, or leading through force? And, may I ask, why do you think the world would be a better place if/when a theist dies?

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: lyssword
I have faith in bible/christianity. I do not go to church, but I believe God exists. Some of you here would think that I was forced to think that way and I don't really think for myself and i'm not open minded. But ask yourself, as an atheist what do you want to do? you probably want every religious person to agree with evolution etc. If you could get away with it you would probably destroy all the churches (like 50+ were set on fire in alabama). Are christians/religious people able to contribute to society? you bet. Most have jobs, a lot are scientists/engineers/doctors. Do they pay taxes to government? yes they do. And compared to secular society i think they are less likely to do drugs/be drunk (but that is not for a fact, because I have not researched it). You guys think that there is some misterious line that divides religious people/w non-religious. But I think we are all humans, and think very much alike except for few differences (like evolution etc). I don't want to force any belief on anyone, it is their choice. (people are no more forced into christinity then they are forced into buying Mountain Dew) But I also don't want to be forced to only believe in evolution and make it illegal to believe in God. Can't we just get along? (we mostly do, I believe )

Lot of assumptions in there. All wrong, unfortunately.. but that is what you get for assuming!

Btw, I have NEVER encountered anyone agnostic or atheist that has pushed their beliefs on me.. and I HAVE encountered religious people that do constantly(door to door witnesses, my entire set of in laws(we even got a bible for a wedding gift on her side and neither of us follow that set of beliefs)).

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
I wouldn't cross the street to save a burning theist life.
When a theist dies, the world as a whole is elevated.

Am I correct in assuming you don't like people who believe in a God? Would you say that you hate them?

No I don't hate then. I just think the world would becomes a better place when a theist dies.

Do you believe in leading through example, or leading through force? And, may I ask, why do you think the world would be a better place if/when a theist dies?

I believe in leading through example. I support freedom of religion, people should worship as they see fit, but that doesn't mean I can't teach them the error of their "faith". The world becomes a better place because Religion has done nothing good for humanity. We can't advance as a species until we rid ourself of the bounds of god belief.

 

[lyssword]

thats what the communists said

 

[TheSlamma]

Beliefs make people stuck in their ways and unable to accept truth. Why in the hell would anyone want to do that.

 

[MSUEngineer]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
I wouldn't cross the street to save a burning theist life.
When a theist dies, the world as a whole is elevated.

Am I correct in assuming you don't like people who believe in a God? Would you say that you hate them?

No I don't hate then. I just think the world would becomes a better place when a theist dies.

Do you believe in leading through example, or leading through force? And, may I ask, why do you think the world would be a better place if/when a theist dies?

I believe in leading through example. I support freedom of religion, people should worship as they see fit, but that doesn't mean I can't teach them the error of their "faith". The world becomes a better place because Religion has done nothing good for humanity. We can't advance as a species until we rid ourself of the bounds of god belief.

Well DVK916, those wonderful athiests Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jung Il (sp?), Lenin, etc. have been wonderful contributors of society haven't they? Those fellows have probably murdered more people than all the inquisitions, crusades, etc combined. So to say that removing religion is going to get rid of society's problems, think again. And to say we can't advance as a species until a belief in god is gone, what planet are you from? Man has seen its greatest technological developments in the past 100 years, and most of the developments had nothing to do with if the inventor believed in god or not.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: MSUEngineer

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
I wouldn't cross the street to save a burning theist life.
When a theist dies, the world as a whole is elevated.

Am I correct in assuming you don't like people who believe in a God? Would you say that you hate them?

No I don't hate then. I just think the world would becomes a better place when a theist dies.

Do you believe in leading through example, or leading through force? And, may I ask, why do you think the world would be a better place if/when a theist dies?

I believe in leading through example. I support freedom of religion, people should worship as they see fit, but that doesn't mean I can't teach them the error of their "faith". The world becomes a better place because Religion has done nothing good for humanity. We can't advance as a species until we rid ourself of the bounds of god belief.

Well DVK916, those wonderful athiests Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jung Il (sp?), Lenin, etc. have been wonderful contributors of society haven't they? Those fellows have probably murdered more people than all the inquisitions, crusades, etc combined. So to say that removing religion is going to get rid of society's problems, think again. And to say we can't advance as a species until a belief in god is gone, what planet are you from? Man has seen its greatest technological developments in the past 100 years, and most of the developments had nothing to do with if the inventor believed in god or not.

I didn't say that removing all theist would remove all of our problems. I said it would make the world a better place, not a perfect place. Ofcourse there are bad atheist as well, but the proportion of athiest who do harm to the world is far less than theist .

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DVK916
I believe in leading through example.

In my opinion, your statement that you wouldn't go out of your way to save the life of a theist totally contradicts the fact that you say you believe in leading through example.

You see, as a proclaimed atheist who believes in leading through example, you should want to do good deeds to show that atheists can be good without the need for a belief in God. So, your beliefs seem to be kinda contradictory to me.

I support freedom of religion, people should worship as they see fit, but that doesn't mean I can't teach them the error of their "faith".

Can you accept the fact that they feel the same way about you, as you feel about them? I mean, otherwise, it would make you appear to them as a hypocrit, no?

The world becomes a better place because Religion has done nothing good for humanity.

I don't believe you are correct here. My personal faith told me that my giving of love and charity would make me happier, and that I'd live a happier life. And I have found this to be true. And I imagine others who have received my love and charity are appreciative, just as I am appreciate of the love and charity that I have received. For example, I am just as happy to receive techninal support in the GH forum, as I am to give it. And because my faith and my belief that helping others will make me happy, others have been aided by me, and made happy as well.

I don't think you have researched or experienced enough of the world to really be able to make that statement. Maybe you feel the need to think this through a little more?

We can't advance as a species until we rid ourself of the bounds of god belief.

I think this is the most interesting thing you have said. And I'd like to discuss this with you further. But first I have a question to ask of you. Do you think it is possible for our species to "rid ourself of the bounds of god belief?"

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
I believe in leading through example.

In my opinion, your statement that you wouldn't go out of your way to save the life of a theist totally contradicts the fact that you say you believe in leading through example.

You see, as a proclaimed atheist who believes in leading through example, you should want to do good deeds to show that atheists can be good without the need for a belief in God. So, your beliefs seem to be kinda contradictory to me.

I support freedom of religion, people should worship as they see fit, but that doesn't mean I can't teach them the error of their "faith".

Can you accept the fact that they feel the same way about you, as you feel about them? I mean, otherwise, it would make you appear to them as a hypocrit, no?

The world becomes a better place because Religion has done nothing good for humanity.

I don't believe you are correct here. My personal faith told me that my giving of love and charity would make me happier, and that I'd live a happier life. And I have found this to be true. And I imagine others who have received my love and charity are appreciative, just as I am appreciate of the love and charity that I have received. For example, I am just as happy to receive techninal support in the GH forum, as I am to give it. And because my faith and my belief that helping others will make me happy, others have been aided by me, and made happy as well.

I don't think you have researched or experienced enough of the world to really be able to make that statement. Maybe you feel the need to think this through a little more?

We can't advance as a species until we rid ourself of the bounds of god belief.

I think this is the most interesting thing you have said. And I'd like to discuss this with you further. But first I have a question to ask of you. Do you think it is possible for our species to "rid ourself of the bounds of god belief?"

I do not believe allow a theist to die is wrong. Murdering is wrong though. Murdering brings society down, no mater who it is. But failing to save a theist when you can is not wrong.

 

[lyssword]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: lyssword
I have faith in bible/christianity. I do not go to church, but I believe God exists. Some of you here would think that I was forced to think that way and I don't really think for myself and i'm not open minded. But ask yourself, as an atheist what do you want to do? you probably want every religious person to agree with evolution etc. If you could get away with it you would probably destroy all the churches (like 50+ were set on fire in alabama). Are christians/religious people able to contribute to society? you bet. Most have jobs, a lot are scientists/engineers/doctors. Do they pay taxes to government? yes they do. And compared to secular society i think they are less likely to do drugs/be drunk (but that is not for a fact, because I have not researched it). You guys think that there is some misterious line that divides religious people/w non-religious. But I think we are all humans, and think very much alike except for few differences (like evolution etc). I don't want to force any belief on anyone, it is their choice. (people are no more forced into christinity then they are forced into buying Mountain Dew) But I also don't want to be forced to only believe in evolution and make it illegal to believe in God. Can't we just get along? (we mostly do, I believe )

Lot of assumptions in there. All wrong, unfortunately.. but that is what you get for assuming!

Btw, I have NEVER encountered anyone agnostic or atheist that has pushed their beliefs on me.. and I HAVE encountered religious people that do constantly(door to door witnesses, my entire set of in laws(we even got a bible for a wedding gift on her side and neither of us follow that set of beliefs)).

Yes some of my assumptions may be wrong, because I don't know as much as I would like to. But what you are describing imo is more of a cultural/social pressure. I'm sure many people had different experiences. To me its the same as people try to make you conform. I don't think it is right to force religion or non-religion on anyone. In new testament it says (not in exact words) that the word of bible will spread and everyone will know. Everyone has a choice but don't force them, take care of urself first. Your inlaws maybe think that it is "cool" to be christian/w/ever, but it is basically same thing as your friends try to make you smoke/drink/wever bcause it is cool. A true christian wouldn't want government involved in religion or religion get involved in government. (example some arab countries and opposite is Communist China) Perhaps you don't fully understand the meaning of forced, you will not get persecuted, you will not get beheaded, jailed just because you are not christian (this is what happened/ing in China and was in some cases in former Soviet union to Christians/muslims/jews/other religions). If america is to be free, we must tolerate religious people in it.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DVK916
Ofcourse there are bad atheist as well, but the proportion of athiest who do harm to the world is far less than theist .

If there are good and bad atheists, do you think there are good and bad people of faith?

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
Ofcourse there are bad atheist as well, but the proportion of athiest who do harm to the world is far less than theist .

If there are good and bad atheists, do you think there are good and bad people of faith?

Sure there are some good theist, but their god belief negates this. The harm they will do in the long run by spreading their religion is worst than the good they will do in their life time.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I am religious. God is love and I have experienced love, so I know that He exists. The rest is details.

You've worded your response as a syllogism. But your conclusion doesn't follow logically. To see this, consider:

The sky is blue.
I see blue.
So I see the sky.

Therefore, some clarification is needed: What do you mean by, "God is love?"

Asking someone to logically prove the existence of their God is a mistake.

Even if the existence of God is proved, all proofs do not include all the religious attributes and characteristics of God.

There is also no logical proof that God doesn't exist, since God can be defined in any number of ways to escape any logic.

That may be so, but would be it rational to beileve in those god(s)?

Since we cannot rationally prove or disprove, the question is moot.

Yes, there is no absolute proof of the non-exsistance or even exsistance of something. However, with the use of logic I am sure we can get pretty damn close. What we're looking for is what is rational for us to beileve?

Logic is absolute, it does not get "close" or farther away. There is no true rational to believe in your type of God, other than your own faith. Philosophers can logically prove the existence of God, but they cannot logically prove that he has any attributes that we consider close to our religious Gods.

edit: if you're asking if faith is rational, no, i don't believe it is. but we still value it.

I am a bit confused by your reply, all I said or meant to say was that it's nearly impossible to prove or disprove the exsistance of God (whatever God may be...) - There's no such thing as absolute certainity.

I don't understand how my question is "moot" - I think I might be going off the wrong track of what you're trying to say, but bear with me. I'll give you a example of what I am trying imply...
Lets assume a typical loving God exsists...

-God exists and God is perfect.
+The world that he created is not perfect (death,suffering,pain,etc...)
-God cannot create a "perfect world" or that world would be in essence a second "God" it'd be perfect...

I don't know if that's a good example, but I hope you can see what I am trying to say. I suppose if God is "omnipotent" he isn't bound by the "rules" of logic... That idea just makes my brain hurt...

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
I believe in leading through example.

In my opinion, your statement that you wouldn't go out of your way to save the life of a theist totally contradicts the fact that you say you believe in leading through example.

You see, as a proclaimed atheist who believes in leading through example, you should want to do good deeds to show that atheists can be good without the need for a belief in God. So, your beliefs seem to be kinda contradictory to me.

I support freedom of religion, people should worship as they see fit, but that doesn't mean I can't teach them the error of their "faith".

Can you accept the fact that they feel the same way about you, as you feel about them? I mean, otherwise, it would make you appear to them as a hypocrit, no?

The world becomes a better place because Religion has done nothing good for humanity.

I don't believe you are correct here. My personal faith told me that my giving of love and charity would make me happier, and that I'd live a happier life. And I have found this to be true. And I imagine others who have received my love and charity are appreciative, just as I am appreciate of the love and charity that I have received. For example, I am just as happy to receive techninal support in the GH forum, as I am to give it. And because my faith and my belief that helping others will make me happy, others have been aided by me, and made happy as well.

I don't think you have researched or experienced enough of the world to really be able to make that statement. Maybe you feel the need to think this through a little more?

We can't advance as a species until we rid ourself of the bounds of god belief.

I think this is the most interesting thing you have said. And I'd like to discuss this with you further. But first I have a question to ask of you. Do you think it is possible for our species to "rid ourself of the bounds of god belief?"

I do not believe allow a theist to die is wrong. Murdering is wrong though. Murdering brings society down, no mater who it is. But failing to save a theist when you can is not wrong.

Do you mind anwering to my other remarks?

But failing to save a theist when you can is not wrong.

Why? Maybe I'd understand your statement here if you would answer to the other remarks/question I had.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
I believe in leading through example.

In my opinion, your statement that you wouldn't go out of your way to save the life of a theist totally contradicts the fact that you say you believe in leading through example.

You see, as a proclaimed atheist who believes in leading through example, you should want to do good deeds to show that atheists can be good without the need for a belief in God. So, your beliefs seem to be kinda contradictory to me.

I support freedom of religion, people should worship as they see fit, but that doesn't mean I can't teach them the error of their "faith".

Can you accept the fact that they feel the same way about you, as you feel about them? I mean, otherwise, it would make you appear to them as a hypocrit, no?

The world becomes a better place because Religion has done nothing good for humanity.

I don't believe you are correct here. My personal faith told me that my giving of love and charity would make me happier, and that I'd live a happier life. And I have found this to be true. And I imagine others who have received my love and charity are appreciative, just as I am appreciate of the love and charity that I have received. For example, I am just as happy to receive techninal support in the GH forum, as I am to give it. And because my faith and my belief that helping others will make me happy, others have been aided by me, and made happy as well.

I don't think you have researched or experienced enough of the world to really be able to make that statement. Maybe you feel the need to think this through a little more?

We can't advance as a species until we rid ourself of the bounds of god belief.

I think this is the most interesting thing you have said. And I'd like to discuss this with you further. But first I have a question to ask of you. Do you think it is possible for our species to "rid ourself of the bounds of god belief?"

I do not believe allow a theist to die is wrong. Murdering is wrong though. Murdering brings society down, no mater who it is. But failing to save a theist when you can is not wrong.

Do you mind anwering to my other remarks?

But failing to save a theist when you can is not wrong.

Why? Maybe I'd understand your statement here if you would answer to the other remarks/question I had.

You mean if they feel the same way about me as I do about them. I am sure they believe their religion is true and I am wrong, but the fact is I speak only of the facts and what is true, while they believe in some delusions.

Also failing to save a theist isn't bad because as god belief spreads so does its negative impact on the world. Thus fewer theist means a better world. Sorry if you think that is a bad remark but it is the truth.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DVK916
You mean if they feel the same way about me as I do about them. I am sure they believe their religion is true and I am wrong, but the fact is I speak only of the facts and what is true, while they believe in some delusions.

Facts? You said...

The world becomes a better place because Religion has done nothing good for humanity.

If that is a fact, can you prove it to be true?

Also failing to save a theist isn't bad because as god belief spreads so does its negative impact on the world. Thus fewer theist means a better world. Sorry if you think that is a bad remark but it is the truth.

But you are as delusional as you say they are. Because you said...

We can't advance as a species until we rid ourself of the bounds of god belief.

... and that is a fantasy. So you believe in a fantasy, just as you say they do. Many people would call you a hypocrit. Little do they know you're just a troll.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
You mean if they feel the same way about me as I do about them. I am sure they believe their religion is true and I am wrong, but the fact is I speak only of the facts and what is true, while they believe in some delusions.

Facts? You said...

The world becomes a better place because Religion has done nothing good for humanity.

If that is a fact, can you prove it to be true?

Also failing to save a theist isn't bad because as god belief spreads so does its negative impact on the world. Thus fewer theist means a better world. Sorry if you think that is a bad remark but it is the truth.

But you are as delusional as you say they are. Because you said...

We can't advance as a species until we rid ourself of the bounds of god belief.

... and that is a fantasy. So you believe in a fantasy, just as you say they do. Many people would call you a hypocrit. Little do they know you're just a troll.

1. I am not a troll.
2. I said the world would be better place when there are no more theist, this is true. But I never said this would happen. I know we will always have people who believe in some diety.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: DVK916
I believe in leading through example.

In my opinion, your statement that you wouldn't go out of your way to save the life of a theist totally contradicts the fact that you say you believe in leading through example.

You see, as a proclaimed atheist who believes in leading through example, you should want to do good deeds to show that atheists can be good without the need for a belief in God. So, your beliefs seem to be kinda contradictory to me.

I support freedom of religion, people should worship as they see fit, but that doesn't mean I can't teach them the error of their "faith".

Can you accept the fact that they feel the same way about you, as you feel about them? I mean, otherwise, it would make you appear to them as a hypocrit, no?

The world becomes a better place because Religion has done nothing good for humanity.

I don't believe you are correct here. My personal faith told me that my giving of love and charity would make me happier, and that I'd live a happier life. And I have found this to be true. And I imagine others who have received my love and charity are appreciative, just as I am appreciate of the love and charity that I have received. For example, I am just as happy to receive techninal support in the GH forum, as I am to give it. And because my faith and my belief that helping others will make me happy, others have been aided by me, and made happy as well.

I don't think you have researched or experienced enough of the world to really be able to make that statement. Maybe you feel the need to think this through a little more?

We can't advance as a species until we rid ourself of the bounds of god belief.

I think this is the most interesting thing you have said. And I'd like to discuss this with you further. But first I have a question to ask of you. Do you think it is possible for our species to "rid ourself of the bounds of god belief?"

I do not believe allow a theist to die is wrong. Murdering is wrong though. Murdering brings society down, no mater who it is. But failing to save a theist when you can is not wrong.

What the hell is wrong with you? It absolutely is wrong, morally. Why would you *not* save someone just b/c they are religious? If John Kerry was drowning in a lake and all you had to do was throw him a life raft, you wouldn't do it simply because he's religious? You, quite frankly, disgust me.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DVK916
1. I am not a troll.
2. I said the world would be better place when there are no more theist, this is true. But I never said this would happen. I know we will always have people who believe in some diety.

For argument's sake, let's assume #1 is true.

How do you know "the world would be better place when there are no more theist," when you also agree that this will never happen? That doesn't make any sense. At all. Again, you believe in something that cannot be proven, something that cannot happen, and you believe it to the point in which you refer to it as a fact. Wow, I mean, you call yourself an atheist like Bush calls himself a Christian. Say one thing, do another.

BTW, if #1 is true, that you're not a troll, you do know that makes you a hypocrit, right? I mean, using your own words here prove that. It's not my opinion, at all, just going by the words you have typed, any logical person could see this, no?

 

[totalcommand]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: totalcommand

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
I am religious. God is love and I have experienced love, so I know that He exists. The rest is details.

You've worded your response as a syllogism. But your conclusion doesn't follow logically. To see this, consider:

The sky is blue.
I see blue.
So I see the sky.

Therefore, some clarification is needed: What do you mean by, "God is love?"

Asking someone to logically prove the existence of their God is a mistake.

Even if the existence of God is proved, all proofs do not include all the religious attributes and characteristics of God.

There is also no logical proof that God doesn't exist, since God can be defined in any number of ways to escape any logic.

That may be so, but would be it rational to beileve in those god(s)?

Since we cannot rationally prove or disprove, the question is moot.

Yes, there is no absolute proof of the non-exsistance or even exsistance of something. However, with the use of logic I am sure we can get pretty damn close. What we're looking for is what is rational for us to beileve?

Logic is absolute, it does not get "close" or farther away. There is no true rational to believe in your type of God, other than your own faith. Philosophers can logically prove the existence of God, but they cannot logically prove that he has any attributes that we consider close to our religious Gods.

edit: if you're asking if faith is rational, no, i don't believe it is. but we still value it.

I am a bit confused by your reply, all I said or meant to say was that it's nearly impossible to prove or disprove the exsistance of God (whatever God may be...) - There's no such thing as absolute certainity.

I don't understand how my question is "moot" - I think I might be going off the wrong track of what you're trying to say, but bear with me. I'll give you a example of what I am trying imply...
Lets assume a typical loving God exsists...

-God exists and God is perfect.
+The world that he created is not perfect (death,suffering,pain,etc...)
-God cannot create a "perfect world" or that world would be in essence a second "God" it'd be perfect...

I don't know if that's a good example, but I hope you can see what I am trying to say. I suppose if God is "omnipotent" he isn't bound by the "rules" of logic... That idea just makes my brain hurt...

Heh, I think we're waying the same thing. God may exist (edit: and in fact there are logical proof for "it's" existence), but you do not know what attributes he has. Is he simply the first cause? Must he be "perfect"? What is "perfection"? Is he intelligent? Why are we always saying "he"? Must he be benevolent? Can he simply be the substance of this universe and nothing else? (This last question is something that I am pretty close to believing, and I take on faith).

No belief in God is fully rational. But if one has faith in God, there is no need to be rational about him, since the faith and rationality are mutually exclusive. In fact, I'm sure there have been some theologians who have argued that applying rationality to God actually takes something away from him - just as you said, being bound by the "rules" of logic diminishes his omnipotence.

I think belief in God is purely a matter of faith, and rationality does not need to enter into this realm (since it can't confirm or deny anything).

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
How can you not believe in God if you say you don't believe in Him. By picturing in your mind what you don't believe in, you create that thing. What you really don't believe in is what you have never named or thought about, no?

When you say you don't believe in God you know what you mean by God and that is your creation. To not believe in God is to create Him.

I don't believe this God you create with your disbelief exists.

If I imagine a beast with 17 heads, each of a different animal, I've obviously "created" a "concept" of that beast in my mind. But does that beast actually exist?

I'm not trying to engage in semantics here. You used the word "create" and I used the word "exist." But when someone says they don't believe in God, they're actually saying that they don't believe God exists.

I understand that "God" is a special case. A philospher once defined God as the greatest thing you can conceive of as existing. It sounds like your own definition is that God is what you imagine God to be (though there is a problem with that definition: suppose someone imagines God to be a 5,000-foot tall purple elephant, easily detectable in the physical world, edible [tasting like tapioca], and providing complete nourishment?) By either of those definitions, God exists for everyone (although for each person, God would be at least slightly different).

I also recognize that the word "existence" is a tricky one when it comes to the metaphysical. What does it mean to "exist" outside the realm of the physical? If I "imagine" existence to mean "detectable by physical or electromagnetic measurement," isn't that what existence actually is? For me? So by that standard, merely imagining God doesn't give that imagined God existence.

Could I say that I do not believe in the God you imagine doesn't exist? After all if imagining a God, as you say, doesn't make him real then not imagining him shouldn't mean he doesn't exist. Perhaps, then, I believe in a God you do not imagine.

 

[1prophet]

Only in death will an atheist finally find proof of God, but even if they were to come back to the living who would believe them?

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: DVK916


1. I am not a troll.
2. I said the world would be better place when there are no more theist, this is true. But I never said this would happen. I know we will always have people who believe in some diety.

You are a strange person, and should probably seek help. Remember something important, just because you believe in something, doesn't make it fact. No matter how much you love your opinions, they are just that, not facts.