Religion

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Sasiki

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
How can you accept something which hasn't yet existed?

In the book of Genesis, chapter 12, verses 1-3. The Lord had said to Abram (Abraham), "Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father's family, and go to the land that i will show you. I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you.

God has always made provisions for people to accept Him, whether it was as the father, the son, or the holy spirit.


Time for sleep.

So what's the point of missionaries working to convert people if God's already "made provisions" for those people who've never heard the name "Jesus Christ" in their lives?

Oh, let me guess, the missionaries are exercising their free will to convert people, exactly according to God's plan. But they're not puppets, they're free-willed plan-followers.
Makes perfect sense.

 

[Sasiki]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Shouldn't you believe in some religion because it is the right one, not because it is "safer" than an alternative?

I have already stated my basis for believing in Christianity. John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am THE way, and THE truth, and THE life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." I have no doubts that Christianity is the real deal. If I were to word the threads like that though, there isn't much discussion that can be branched off of that. It's like me saying "My shirt is green." Can't debate that. Saying "My religion is right" would have been my last thread on this topic as I have nothing to debate at that point.

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: Sasiki

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
How can you accept something which hasn't yet existed?

In the book of Genesis, chapter 12, verses 1-3. The Lord had said to Abram (Abraham), "Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father's family, and go to the land that i will show you. I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you.

God has always made provisions for people to accept Him, whether it was as the father, the son, or the holy spirit.


Time for sleep.

The bible also says:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

 

[IEC]

If you're going to be atheist or agnostic you should at least have an informed opinion and be open-minded about it. Think about it from THEIR perspective. Their beloved child/nephew is making a life choice that has eternal consequences. Why shouldn't they be worried?

On the other hand, IMO if you bring up hell as a reason to convert/believe I think there is a special place in the void for you. The concept of hell is largely irrelevant in Christian faith (and even in Jewish faith). The stereotypical image of hell has little Biblical basis.

 

[Sasiki]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
You missed the point. Millions of people lived before the Bible was written by people, so how do they know any of these things?

Abraham also lived before the Bible was written. The best I can find, he lived between 2000bc and 1500bc. Moses began writing books between 1500bc and 1300bc. The Bible is not what those people held on to, read, and believed in order to get to heaven. The Bible is a collection of books written about what they believed after all of those events took place.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: Sasiki

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
How can you accept something which hasn't yet existed?

In the book of Genesis, chapter 12, verses 1-3. The Lord had said to Abram (Abraham), "Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father's family, and go to the land that i will show you. I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you.

God has always made provisions for people to accept Him, whether it was as the father, the son, or the holy spirit.


Time for sleep.

The bible also says:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Taken out of context it sounds horrible, but when you compare Deuteronomic texts with other ancient law codes such as Hammurabi's it looks positively civilized.

 

[Sasiki]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
So what's the point of missionaries working to convert people if God's already "made provisions" for those people who've never heard the name "Jesus Christ" in their lives?

Oh, let me guess, the missionaries are exercising their free will to convert people, exactly according to God's plan. But they're not puppets, they're free-willed plan-followers.
Makes perfect sense.

The provisions are there, some have just not heard of Christ. Missionaries are out there to introduce these people to Christ. The holy spirit is standing there with His arms wide open for everyone whether they know it or not. My infant son is still on breastmilk. They make baby food for him to eat. He just does not know it yet. We have to introduce it to him before he knows anything about it.

God told Noah to build an ark in Genesis 6 because he was the only man who found favor with the lord (Gensis 6:8). People did not know of God at this time though and laughed at Noah for building the ark and telling of the great flood that would happen. After the ark was built, Noah was instructed to gather his wife, sons, and their wives, 2 of each animal (in some cases 7 pairs). God flooded the earth. Because Noah obeyed God, he and his family was spared. Genesis 9:1 says "Then God blessed Noah and his sons and told them, Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth." It then goes on to say in Genesis 9:18-19 - "The sons of Noah who came out of the boat with their father were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. From these three sons of Noah came all the people who now populate the earth."

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: Sasiki

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
How can you accept something which hasn't yet existed?

In the book of Genesis, chapter 12, verses 1-3. The Lord had said to Abram (Abraham), "Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father's family, and go to the land that i will show you. I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you.

God has always made provisions for people to accept Him, whether it was as the father, the son, or the holy spirit.


Time for sleep.

The bible also says:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Taken out of context it sounds horrible, but when you compare Deuteronomic texts with other ancient law codes such as Hammurabi's it looks positively civilized.

Slavery is positively civilized?

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: Sasiki

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
How can you accept something which hasn't yet existed?

In the book of Genesis, chapter 12, verses 1-3. The Lord had said to Abram (Abraham), "Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father's family, and go to the land that i will show you. I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you.

God has always made provisions for people to accept Him, whether it was as the father, the son, or the holy spirit.


Time for sleep.

The bible also says:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Taken out of context it sounds horrible, but when you compare Deuteronomic texts with other ancient law codes such as Hammurabi's it looks positively civilized.

Slavery is positively civilized?

Did you miss the part where I said when you compare it to? Obviously it's horrible. But then again it's not the chattel slavery we think of these days. In most cases.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Sasiki

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Shouldn't you believe in some religion because it is the right one, not because it is "safer" than an alternative?

I have already stated my basis for believing in Christianity. John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am THE way, and THE truth, and THE life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." I have no doubts that Christianity is the real deal. If I were to word the threads like that though, there isn't much discussion that can be branched off of that. It's like me saying "My shirt is green." Can't debate that. Saying "My religion is right" would have been my last thread on this topic as I have nothing to debate at that point.

And how many other religions before Christianity have claimed to be THE right one?

All of the religions make the same claim: "This one is totally the right one. Bad things happen if you believe the other ones."

It's like Coke vs Pepsi. They're basically the same: Both are saying, "OMG mine has a sparkly bottle, therefore it's better!" but they're both just carbonated water with corn syrup and similar flavorings, each with a big marketing budget. It's a matter of personal preference beyond that for the different flavors. Except neither company will condemn you to eternal suffering for choosing the "wrong" one.

Same with religions: Personal preference. Religion A says it's the best. Religion B says it's the best. I like the flavor of Religion B better.
That still doesn't mean it's absolute truth though. It just means you like it better.

Originally posted by: Sasiki
The provisions are there, some have just not heard of Christ. Missionaries are out there to introduce these people to Christ. The holy spirit is standing there with His arms wide open for everyone whether they know it or not. My infant son is still on breastmilk. They make baby food for him to eat. He just does not know it yet. We have to introduce it to him before he knows anything about it.

God told Noah to build an ark in Genesis 6 because he was the only man who found favor with the lord (Gensis 6:8). People did not know of God at this time though and laughed at Noah for building the ark and telling of the great flood that would happen. After the ark was built, Noah was instructed to gather his wife, sons, and their wives, 2 of each animal (in some cases 7 pairs). God flooded the earth. Because Noah obeyed God, he and his family was spared. Genesis 9:1 says "Then God blessed Noah and his sons and told them, Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth." It then goes on to say in Genesis 9:18-19 - "The sons of Noah who came out of the boat with their father were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. From these three sons of Noah came all the people who now populate the earth."

Find the path to God - or he will kill you.

I sure hope he got all the genocide out of his system.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
Aunt: So does it bother you that your GF is jewish?

Me: No. I don't care for religion anymore. I believe in a god though.

Aunt: Do you pray to Jesus?

Me: No

Aunt: Yeah your GF changed you, you used to play guitar at church.

Me: Yeah for the live experience and cute girls. If anything, the lunatics at that church helped push me away from religion.

Dad: *jokingly* He's atheist. (Even though he's joking, I have a good feeling he thinks that way)

Aunt: You do know you and your girlfriend are going to hell right?

Me: So you are saying if we both live honorable and selfless lives, god won't accept us because we don't follow YOUR religion?

Mom: If you don't believe the bible, you guys are going to hell. Please don't scare me like this.

Me: I give up. You both call yourselves Christains, but you have no problem cussing and spewing hate towards others that don't share the same view as you. If there is a heaven, you guys surely would be last in line....... if you are even in it to begin with.

The real conversation could not have gone as written.

My guess is that his aunt is mentally retarded and it runs in the family.

Originally posted by: ICRS
God belief is a mental illness. It is a delusion. It is a disease on society. It spreads and everywhere it spreads it kills. It should never be tolerated. It should be cleansed from society and its followers showed by removed.

For all you Atheists out there, just know that you believe and think in the same way ICRS does.

zing.

For all you religious out there, just know that you believe and think in the same way Osama Bin Laden does.

zing.

Wow I didn't realize Osama's religion was to love thy neighbor.

fail.

You know religious conservatives don't like Asians, right?

 

[TheInternet1980]

wtf is this post

 

[PowerEngineer]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Me: I give up. You both call yourselves Christains, but you have no problem cussing and spewing hate towards others that don't share the same view as you. If there is a heaven, you guys surely would be last in line....... if you are even in it to begin with.

While I certainly don't agree with so-called Christian beliefs, it seems to me that your closing remarks presume some things that don't necessarily follow from the conversation (at least the way you presented it).

The only remarks that might be construed as "cussing" were those about "going to hell". I suppose telling someone that you wanted them to "go to hell" might qualify (but just barely). However your family wasn't saying that to you or your girl friend. They were expressing their fear (justified or not) that you two might be sent to hell by (their) god. To their way of thinking, they were trying their best to alert you to this possibility and hopefully prevent that from happening. I can't see that as "spewing hate" either.

I know there's always more to the story. I'm sure this isn't the only time this issue has come up. Just offering an objective read of the conversation you posted. Good luck.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: Sasiki

Originally posted by: BeauJangles
How can you accept something which hasn't yet existed?

In the book of Genesis, chapter 12, verses 1-3. The Lord had said to Abram (Abraham), "Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father's family, and go to the land that i will show you. I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you.

God has always made provisions for people to accept Him, whether it was as the father, the son, or the holy spirit.


Time for sleep.

The bible also says:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Taken out of context it sounds horrible, but when you compare Deuteronomic texts with other ancient law codes such as Hammurabi's it looks positively civilized.

Slavery is positively civilized?

Did you miss the part where I said when you compare it to? Obviously it's horrible. But then again it's not the chattel slavery we think of these days. In most cases.

Wow. I'm sorry you were brainwashed at such a young age

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Did you miss the part where I said when you compare it to? Obviously it's horrible. But then again it's not the chattel slavery we think of these days. In most cases.

Wow. I'm sorry you were brainwashed at such a young age

I'd wager that Spartan has a considerable edge on you in terms of enlightenment and education.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Sasiki

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Sasiki
Hell isn't talked about much anymore because it's 'uncool' and a terrible and dreadful thing to think about. The fact of the matter is though, Hell is very real. If one does profess his/her sins to Jesus Christ and accept him as their saviour, they will go to Hell, simple as that. John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

I personally do not wish anyone to Hell, a place of darkness, despair, hate, loneliness. Please, stop by a Church at least one Sunday morning for service. You have nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.

What about all those people born before Jesus and Christanity existed? Do they go to hell simply because there was no way for them to know Christ's message?

Life is a lonely, full of hate and despair. I guess we are already in hell.

That is untrue. My Christian way of life is full of happiness, fullness, hope, and all things that are good in the world. It is the way I choose to live and feel that it makes me a better person because of it.

Your life is lonely, full of hate and despair, because that is the way you choose it to be.

As crazy as you sound, I agree with the last part
:thumbsup:

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: biggestmuff

Originally posted by: ICRS

Originally posted by: TehMac
Meh, I think sometimes family peeps can be pretty annoying when it comes to religion. The thing is that religion is such a matter of intense pride, its so easy to get personal about it. The whole thing is very intimate.

I don't think she's spewing hate, she probably didn't word it the right way, and her attitude certainly isn't very encouraging.

Originally posted by: ICRS
God belief is a mental illness. It is a delusion. It is a disease on society. It spreads and everywhere it spreads it kills. It should never be tolerated. It should be cleansed from society and its followers showed by removed.

Just like the Jews, right?

Jews who worship a god are a disease on society and should be wiped out.

What a nice thing to say. Care to say some words about Muslims, Hindus, etc?

People believe that way about my people are not worth the time of day to talk with or try to reason with.....

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Sasiki

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: Sasiki
Hell isn't talked about much anymore because it's 'uncool' and a terrible and dreadful thing to think about. The fact of the matter is though, Hell is very real. If one does profess his/her sins to Jesus Christ and accept him as their saviour, they will go to Hell, simple as that. John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

I personally do not wish anyone to Hell, a place of darkness, despair, hate, loneliness. Please, stop by a Church at least one Sunday morning for service. You have nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain.

What about all those people born before Jesus and Christanity existed? Do they go to hell simply because there was no way for them to know Christ's message?

Life is a lonely, full of hate and despair. I guess we are already in hell.

That is untrue. My Christian way of life is full of happiness, fullness, hope, and all things that are good in the world. It is the way I choose to live and feel that it makes me a better person because of it.

Your life is lonely, full of hate and despair, because that is the way you choose it to be.

As crazy as you sound, I agree with the last part
:thumbsup:

Pure christian smoke and mirrors. Tell everyone how happy you will be when you accept brainwashing. My life is quite fantastic thank you, i gaurantee i enjoy life more than your diluted christain soul. Being a christian is like taking your spirit and giving it a labodomy. You can't handle the bad so you throw out the extremes altogether.

To understand why Christianity has been so effective is pretty simple. Religion is a tool of evolution. We have complicated brains which require shortcuts when dealing with complicated ideas. Otherwise our ancestors would have spent all day contemplating death when they only had time for survival. As technology has advanced, so have our religions. They have become more vague as logic and education disprove any concrete claims that are blatantly wrong. Ideas like a flat world held up on the back of a god are hard to keep up when you can see pictures of a spherical earth from space. But an invisible omnipresent, omniscient god who is sometimes evil and sometimes nice and hasn't shown himself in thousands of years is much harder to disprove. Like all good fiction it is based on enough truth to give it substance. With thousands of years of history backing it and most of the world dominated under it, it is easy to see how ingrained Christianity is in so many of us. We have literally evolved(though only for a relatively short time) into Christians. Those that weren't inclined to join were murdered/ enslaved/killed by diseases. Though they obviously didn't realize it, these Christians were changing the meaning of survival of the fittest.

 

[Robor]

I have an aunt who visits a few times per year and each time she leaves she gives me something from that 'Daily Bread' publication. I'm agnostic. I don't deny the possibility of a supreme being but I don't deny the possibility there is none either. I simply don't know. Now my aunt knows this but continues to give me this religious propaganda. I know she means well but at the same time why can't she understand and accept I do not follow her chosen faith? I wonder what she would think if I gave her material from Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc? Those of faith often ask agnostics/atheists to keep an open mind yet they often practice their own religion as though it is the undeniable one and only truth. How can they deny all faiths but their own yet not accept the possibility they may be wrong?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Did you miss the part where I said when you compare it to? Obviously it's horrible. But then again it's not the chattel slavery we think of these days. In most cases.

Wow. I'm sorry you were brainwashed at such a young age

I'd wager that Spartan has a considerable edge on you in terms of enlightenment and education.

Sorry, anyone who trys to justify slavery in the Bible by saying it is "out of context" does not sound educated.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Did you miss the part where I said when you compare it to? Obviously it's horrible. But then again it's not the chattel slavery we think of these days. In most cases.

Wow. I'm sorry you were brainwashed at such a young age

I'd wager that Spartan has a considerable edge on you in terms of enlightenment and education.

Sorry, anyone who trys to justify slavery in the Bible by saying it is "out of context" does not sound educated.

I didn't take it as a justification of slavery, but as a condemnation of those other provisions in Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Arguably, it was poorly stated, but I think you misconstrued him.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Robor
I have an aunt who visits a few times per year and each time she leaves she gives me something from that 'Daily Bread' publication. I'm agnostic. I don't deny the possibility of a supreme being but I don't deny the possibility there is none either. I simply don't know. Now my aunt knows this but continues to give me this religious propaganda. I know she means well but at the same time why can't she understand and accept I do not follow her chosen faith? I wonder what she would think if I gave her material from Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc? Those of faith often ask agnostics/atheists to keep an open mind yet they often practice their own religion as though it is the undeniable one and only truth. How can they deny all faiths but their own yet not accept the possibility they may be wrong?

If you don't actively believe in a god, you're an atheist. That's all the word means "a (not) - theist"

Many people don't want to call themselves that because of the stigma that religious folk have associated with it.

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Robor
I have an aunt who visits a few times per year and each time she leaves she gives me something from that 'Daily Bread' publication. I'm agnostic. I don't deny the possibility of a supreme being but I don't deny the possibility there is none either. I simply don't know. Now my aunt knows this but continues to give me this religious propaganda. I know she means well but at the same time why can't she understand and accept I do not follow her chosen faith? I wonder what she would think if I gave her material from Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc? Those of faith often ask agnostics/atheists to keep an open mind yet they often practice their own religion as though it is the undeniable one and only truth. How can they deny all faiths but their own yet not accept the possibility they may be wrong?

If you don't actively believe in a god, you're an atheist. That's all the word means "a (not) - theist"

Many people don't want to call themselves that because of the stigma that religious folk have associated with it.

Agnostic and atheist are two very different things.

The latter claims to know with certainty that there is no god while the former admits one cannot know with certainty either way.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Robor
I have an aunt who visits a few times per year and each time she leaves she gives me something from that 'Daily Bread' publication. I'm agnostic. I don't deny the possibility of a supreme being but I don't deny the possibility there is none either. I simply don't know. Now my aunt knows this but continues to give me this religious propaganda. I know she means well but at the same time why can't she understand and accept I do not follow her chosen faith? I wonder what she would think if I gave her material from Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc? Those of faith often ask agnostics/atheists to keep an open mind yet they often practice their own religion as though it is the undeniable one and only truth. How can they deny all faiths but their own yet not accept the possibility they may be wrong?

If you don't actively believe in a god, you're an atheist. That's all the word means "a (not) - theist"

Many people don't want to call themselves that because of the stigma that religious folk have associated with it.

Agnostic and atheist are two very different things.

The latter claims to know with certainty that there is no god while the former admits one cannot know with certainty either way.

Not even close to true. I stand by what I said. Many atheists label themselves agnostic because they think that theists will treat them better if they shun the label. Being an atheist simply means you do not actively believe that a god exists. You either believe that a god is more likely than not to exist or vice versa.

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: child of wonder

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Robor
I have an aunt who visits a few times per year and each time she leaves she gives me something from that 'Daily Bread' publication. I'm agnostic. I don't deny the possibility of a supreme being but I don't deny the possibility there is none either. I simply don't know. Now my aunt knows this but continues to give me this religious propaganda. I know she means well but at the same time why can't she understand and accept I do not follow her chosen faith? I wonder what she would think if I gave her material from Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc? Those of faith often ask agnostics/atheists to keep an open mind yet they often practice their own religion as though it is the undeniable one and only truth. How can they deny all faiths but their own yet not accept the possibility they may be wrong?

If you don't actively believe in a god, you're an atheist. That's all the word means "a (not) - theist"

Many people don't want to call themselves that because of the stigma that religious folk have associated with it.

Agnostic and atheist are two very different things.

The latter claims to know with certainty that there is no god while the former admits one cannot know with certainty either way.

Not even close to true. I stand by what I said. Many atheists label themselves agnostic because they think that theists will treat them better if they shun the label. Being an atheist simply means you do not actively believe that a god exists. You either believe that a god is more likely than not to exist or vice versa.

Agnostic - a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable ; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god.

Atheist - one who believes that there is no deity.

Pretty cut and dry, my friend.

You might claim that some atheists claim to be agnostic to avoid stigma, and that might well be true, however you seem to be extending that to a "you're either with us or against us" view on believing in god in which someone, as you said, who does not "actively believe in god" is an atheist.

That assertion is incorrect.

The "a" in atheist means "anti" or "opposite of" not "not."

Being agnostic simply means one decides not to formulate a belief one way or the other because they believe there is no means of knowing if god exists or not or they do not believe human beings are capable of knowing.