Religious Question...

[MacBaine]

Ok... I don't mean to be offensive or anything, I just have a question regarding Christianity. I don't want to turn this into a flame thread, I just want somebody to explian it to me. Jesus supposedly died for our sins, correct? Why is it that we are supposed to worship him for dying, when there are people dying for us all the time? In wars, people die for us, right? I recall that Jesus went to hell for our sins, but he was lifted to heaven or something.... so what is the big deal? Again, I don't mean to sound ignorant or offensive, I just want somebody to explain to me. Thanks

 

[vi edit]

The fact that he was the son of God might play in the equation somewhere

 

[RabidMongoose]

I have a question, too. Why did he have to die for our sins?

 

[HOWITIS]

thats the point isn't it? when you create a religon you want peeps to follow it and its gods. so obviously you warship jesus in the cristian religon.

 

[LordMaul]

<< thats the point isn't it? when you create a religon you want peeps to follow it and its gods. so obviously you warship jesus in the cristian religon. >>



Umm, go away. No one "created" Christianity, technically.

 

[gopunk]

macbaine -

i know what you mean, personally, i don't think it's that big of a deal either. i'd do the same thing in his position... i mean come on... you have the choice between your own death (and you go to heaven) and the eternal damnation of everybody else's souls. you'd have to be a real asshole to not do what jesus did.

 

[ElPool]

yes. Jesus is not an asshole.

 

[AreaCode707]

<< Ok... I don't mean to be offensive or anything, I just have a question regarding Christianity. I don't want to turn this into a flame thread, I just want somebody to explian it to me. Jesus supposedly died for our sins, correct? Why is it that we are supposed to worship him for dying, when there are people dying for us all the time? In wars, people die for us, right? I recall that Jesus went to hell for our sins, but he was lifted to heaven or something.... so what is the big deal? Again, I don't mean to sound ignorant or offensive, I just want somebody to explain to me. Thanks >>



It's easy to die and stay dead but not so easy to conquer death, which is what we Christians believe that Christ did in the resurrection. Through His living a perfect life, death had no justification in holding him (since Christians believe death comes from sin) and he, being the Son of God and living a perfect life, had the power to forgive our sins, to take the penalty for us. We don't worship him for his death, but instead for his conquering of death.

 

[NetworkDad]

Yea, what HotChic said - took the words from my head and put them into something intelligible.

 

[Nefrodite]

I have a question, too. Why did he have to die for our sins?


because god knows all he knew it was going to happen anyways. just send my son down cuz i know he can take it.

 

[gopunk]

We don't worship him for his death, but instead for his conquering of death.

then why do i keep on hearing all this stuff about "jesus died for our sins?" shouldn't there be less of that and more of "jesus was able to conquer death through his virtuous life"? because when people say that "jesus died for our sins", the implication is that the reason he is revered is because he died for our sins. but apparently not. i think people should be a little clearer.

(since Christians believe death comes from sin)

could you explain this further? like if you don't sin, you won't die? i thought that christians thought that if you sin without repenting, you'll go to hell, but you die no matter what.

and he, being the Son of God and living a perfect life, had the power to forgive our sins, to take the penalty for us.

what was the penalty?

 

[AreaCode707]

<< I have a question, too. Why did he have to die for our sins? >>



It's kind of a crime/punishment thing. We have to deal with the consequences of our sins which, as is believed in Christianity, is hell as the afterlife. What Jesus did was live a sinless life, meaning that death and hell had no claim on him, but voluntarily took the consequence of our sin (descended into hell, on the third day rose again - this gets interpreted very differently depending on the denomination of Christianity you're talking to but they all reach the same end point). Through him taking the consequences of our sins, we don't have to, if we choose to relinquish those consequences. So the reason he had to die was because *we* had to die. Now, the first question I can see arising from my somewhat incoherent explanation is, but we still die. Answer: Christians believe in the resurrection of the dead in the end times, not to mention salvation and eternal life not in hell.

 

[Nefrodite]

Through him taking the consequences of our sins

yes but god is responsible for punishement or whatever. so sending down his son is sort of a loophole around his own laws? being all knowing he knew he had to do this from the start.. gahh!

 

[gopunk]

oh jesus went to hell.... and it all suddenly becomes clear. i had no idea that happened.

btw, is it true that christians believe that everybody sins? like it's in our nature. or was that just one denomination...

 

[vi edit]

Catholics at least, believe that we are all born with an "original sin" passed on to us from Eve. It is only "cleansed" away during baptism.

I can't say what other denominations beliefs on it are.

 

[AreaCode707]

<< We don't worship him for his death, but instead for his conquering of death.

then why do i keep on hearing all this stuff about "jesus died for our sins?" shouldn't there be less of that and more of "jesus was able to conquer death through his virtuous life"? because when people say that "jesus died for our sins", the implication is that the reason he is revered is because he died for our sins. but apparently not. i think people should be a little clearer.

(since Christians believe death comes from sin)

could you explain this further? like if you don't sin, you won't die? i thought that christians thought that if you sin without repenting, you'll go to hell, but you die no matter what.

and he, being the Son of God and living a perfect life, had the power to forgive our sins, to take the penalty for us.

what was the penalty? >>



Happy to explain further, as I understand it. I agree with your statement on the terminology. 'Jesus died for our sins' is not as accurate a reflection of what Christians believe as 'Jesus took away our sins by dying and rising again'. Christians believe that if Adam and Eve hadn't sinned, there wouldn't be any death. Our sins being forgiven, we still die but, as I said in my last post, we don't stay dead (creepy thought huh? ) So if you don't sin (and Jesus was the only one who has or could do that, according to Christians) then no, death legitimately can't hold you. And for question number three, the penalty I mentioned was basically death as a finalized deal, and time in hell.

 

[AreaCode707]

<< oh jesus went to hell.... and it all suddenly becomes clear. i had no idea that happened.

btw, is it true that christians believe that everybody sins? like it's in our nature. or was that just one denomination... >>



I don't know of any denomination that doesn't believe humans are basically sinful from birth. I've got little sisters, at 7 months they were stealing toys from each other. I believe it! lol

 

[gopunk]

Catholics at least, believe that we are all born with an "original sin" passed on to us from Eve. It is only "cleansed" away during baptism.

so, it is possible to live sinfree for your entire life, then? i realize this would be somewhat difficult to accomplish, but i was just wondering if this was considered impossible, or just very difficult to do.

 

[gopunk]

So if you don't sin (and Jesus was the only one who has or could do that, according to Christians) then no, death legitimately can't hold you.

is having death hold you the same as being in hell? or does that mean you don't die?

er that didn't make sense... but i think you know what i mean to ask

 

[linuxboy]

btw, is it true that christians believe that everybody sins? like it's in our nature. or was that just one denomination...

The source of all is God. The mystics say there is nothing but God. The layperson says that God is a person. The theologian philosopher claims God is the source of all. But fundamentally it comes down to one simple thing: when a person is not in close nexus with God and chooses to stray from God, that person sins. The claim that it is "nature" to sin, and to come away from God is a theological position. The early Christians had no formal claims as such and their only belief was that Jesus was the Son of Man, as He claimed, and that to be saved, one needed a thing called faith. So, the answer to that depends on what you consider "Christian". According to Aquinas, who wrote some of the most comprehensive summaries of Christian faith, the fact that all humans sin is undeniable.

Catholics at least, believe that we are all born with an "original sin" passed on to us from Eve. It is only "cleansed" away during baptism.

You mean RC, or catholic?

The usual beliefs have been that women pass on the original sin, as evidenced by misogynistic anti-sexual middle ages in Europe. I am not sure what the current RC position is and I don't want to assume it's the same as my own interpretations of the Bible.

Cheers !

 

[linuxboy]

so, it is possible to live sinfree for your entire life, then? i realize this would be somewhat difficult to accomplish, but i was just wondering if this was considered impossible, or just very difficult to do.

Yes, suppose a child who does not know difference between right and wrong dies, that child is technically sin free because nothing was committed by his/her own volition but at the same time, that child is born with the original sin so in that case, the position is that God alone has the authority to judge.

is having death hold you the same as being in hell? or does that mean you don't die?

The idea of hell is that it is the end result of the choices you made in life. If you choose to reject God, you will be in hell. Death is considered something different. I think that the theological position you are talking about was severely influenced by eastern thought in ideas of nirvana. The idea of nirvana is that it is beyond death. The idea od Jesus transcending Death is that Death cannot have claim to Him sine he was perfect, and thus had the authority to decide his own fate.

Cheers !

 

[vi edit]

linuxboy, I was raised Roman Catholic, and that's how I've always interpreted it.

But then again, I learned about that over 18 years ago

 

[Moonbeam]

What would be the difference between really being sinful and being forgiven or being sinful because you think you are and then changing your mind when you feel forgiven?

 

[HamSupLo]

Did jesus die in vain? i'd say that since his death, people have committed atrocities in far great magnitude and in number. and why weren't there any asian religious figures in the Bible? does christiany not care about peoples of other races? it would only make sense that god would send Jesus to china cuz at that time, it had the largest population in the world. just my thoughts.

 

[linuxboy]

What would be the difference between really being sinful and being forgiven or being sinful because you think you are and then changing your mind when you feel forgiven?

an, MB, my old friend. Shall we make the distinction of natural sinfullness (really being sinful) as a disonnance within one's own self? Or more correctly, the separation of the lover from the Beloved by language abstraction and the withdrawal of love? And the other end is conditioned thought (thinking one is sinful) through methods of socialization and somnabulism through non-being in the now?

Eh, I should have organized that better but you should get my point. I think here there is a difference in the approach used and possibly in the degree of separation. In the one case of "real sin", the soul seeks meaning and must experience katharsis to be free and in the other case, the state is merely one of passive rest.


Cheers !