Rental/Tenant Issue

[highland145]

Yeah I have a landlord tenant attorney and will post up what they say, I'm mainly just venting...

The day I sold my last rental was a happy day for me.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

The day I sold my last rental was a happy day for me.

Yeah, I can relate. I try to avoid anything section 8 or renting to obvious deadbeats. I've had fairly good luck overall but I'm very critical of the people I will rent to.

I pay my father to do all of the property management repair type stuff which helps significantly.

 

[jagec]

I am not a lawyer, except when it comes to dealing with disputes involving my children. Then I'm lawyer, judge, jury and executioner.

Calling CPS now.

 

[MonKENy]

if the person has a DL/ID or receives mail to that address whether on the lease or not makes him a tenant of that location and is thus protected under the fair housing act.

I know because I was in that position before. I was the "sub lease" and they wanted me removed. The sheriffs said they had to go through the legal channels just as if I had been on the lease because there was legal proof that was my main residence.

Thats fed min law and states may add to that but thats the basic law across the US.

 

[NetWareHead]

This is why I don't allow subletting/subleasing and its written into my leases that tenants sign. What a nightmare.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

if the person has a DL/ID or receives mail to that address whether on the lease or not makes him a tenant of that location and is thus protected under the fair housing act.

I know because I was in that position before. I was the "sub lease" and they wanted me removed. The sheriffs said they had to go through the legal channels just as if I had been on the lease because there was legal proof that was my main residence.

Thats fed min law and states may add to that but thats the basic law across the US.

Exactly... That's why I can't lock him out nor dispose of his stuff. Lease or no lease, subtenant or not, if he lives in the property he cannot be locked out without proper notice.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

This is why I don't allow subletting/subleasing and its written into my leases that tenants sign. What a nightmare.

I do too, but often times there is VERY little you can actually do.

Even if it's in the lease, you will have to serve eviction papers to the original tenant.

If they show up to the hearing they will just say the subtenant is gone or it isn't a sublease. It's very unlikely that you can evict a tenant who is subleasing, even if you have hard proof. And, even if you can get an eviction served, they now have 30 days (which they likely won't pay) to move out.

 

[SunnyD]

Exactly... That's why I can't lock him out nor dispose of his stuff. Lease or no lease, subtenant or not, if he lives in the property he cannot be locked out without proper notice.

Isn't it amazing how many rights squatters get where as actual property owners get shit?

 

[Rumpltzer]

Store the stuff for whatever amount of time you're required. If guy claims it, you must be entitled to storage fees. If guy doesn't claim it, sell it for storage fees.

Selling it for well under market would allow you to sell quickly and just recover storage fee.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

He's not on the lease. Change the locks, post a note on the door for him to call.

Best way. This way it saves you from killing someone

 

[Leros]

He's not on the lease. Change the locks, post a note on the door for him to call.

For all we know this guy has done nothing malicious. He just rented a room from somebody. No reason to make his life miserable for somebody else's mistake.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

if the person has a DL/ID or receives mail to that address whether on the lease or not makes him a tenant of that location and is thus protected under the fair housing act.

I know because I was in that position before. I was the "sub lease" and they wanted me removed. The sheriffs said they had to go through the legal channels just as if I had been on the lease because there was legal proof that was my main residence.

Thats fed min law and states may add to that but thats the basic law across the US.

So by this I can basically have my mail sent to a house whether the landlord is aware or not and the law protects me?

 

[highland145]

For all we know this guy has done nothing malicious. He just rented a room from somebody. No reason to make his life miserable for somebody else's mistake.

Malicious no but he's not even supposed to be there per the lease. Nor, supposedly, has he paid his "rent." Or is contactable.

he hasn't been around in weeks. She said the room was totally full of stuff a few days ago, so he must've come by and picked up some of it. The only number she has for him is turned off, and he doesn't work at the last place he told her he worked. All she has is his first and last name.


So. I now have some person's stuff in my house, where no one has paid rent for this month, and I have carpet/paint/workers scheduled who can't do anything until I contact this uncontactable person.

And the OP isn't making any $$ while the place is holding this guy's crap.

The OP is in a bad spot. Bet his lawyer tells him to play the cautious route even though the guy doesn't have a leg to stand on, IMO.

 

[DaTT]

I am very interested in what your lawyer has to say about this. Keep us posted.

My parents own 3 rental houses and only had 1 bad tenant.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

What a difference location makes. In Arizona, you could sell the stuff on ebay and sue the guy for the rest of the months rent and win. Tenants have zero rights here.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

I am very interested in what your lawyer has to say about this. Keep us posted.

My parents own 3 rental houses and only had 1 bad tenant.

Every single state in the USA has different laws. My better half runs over 200 apt/house/commercial units for a private owner and he has building in 3-states. Each state is vastly different.

California is a tenant rights state, Nevada is a landlord rights state.

Penalties are severe and judges like to punish scumbag landlords - its hard knowing all the laws when you only run 1 or 2 properties.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Just wanted to vent for others considering leasing out their property.

I have (had) a tenant in a property who has been there almost 3 years. Single mother, has paid rent late once and bounced one check, but was an otherwise good tenant and a good person.

On Dec 20th she emailed me saying sorry but she lost her job, things are crazy, and she will have to break the lease, can Jan 31st be her last day as she has to move in with her parents. I replied no big deal I understand, just make sure everything is clean and ready for carpet/paint. I suspected she had a roommate so I told her to make 100% sure that anyone in the home knows that Jan 31st is their last day.

Then, on Dec 28th she emailed me saying sorry but there is no way for her to even stay Jan, and she will be out by the 31st.

So, I show up on the 1st to inspect the property, and a downstairs room still has furniture in it. Nothing 'personal' like computers or clothes, but there's a bed, a desk, a couch, and a reclining chair.

I call her, and she basically has no idea what to do. Apparently this "roommate" has not paid his rent to her for 2 months. She didn't know how to evict him, and he hasn't been around in weeks. She said the room was totally full of stuff a few days ago, so he must've come by and picked up some of it. The only number she has for him is turned off, and he doesn't work at the last place he told her he worked. All she has is his first and last name.


So. I now have some person's stuff in my house, where no one has paid rent for this month, and I have carpet/paint/workers scheduled who can't do anything until I contact this uncontactable person.

If I change the locks etc he can legally kick the door down since he was never served a notice to vacate. At this point I really just need to move his stuff to the garage, but I'm not 100% sure I can even do that.

Waiting to hear back from my landlord tenant attorney.

Call a trash hauling service and forward the bill the tenant. First, they guy isn't on the lease so he has absolutely no right to the stuff he left behind. Second, even if he was on the lease, the lease was effectively broken as of end of the end of December. This entails the removal of all personal property.

 

[Corporate Thug]

I'm almost positive that the guy would win a judgement against me for replacing this furniture if I did that.

I've dealt with a number of weird situations, including evicting people, and have learned that no matter what (back rent owed, etc doesn't matter) that you cannot dispose of someone's stuff unless they have had 30 days to pick it up.

In the past I've been able to txt or whatever and get the person to get their crap, or even txt and say "your stuff will be thrown away in 30 days unless you contact me", but I can't do any of this since I have no way to contact the person.

What state are you in? what law is that??? It's very surprising that you would be expected to store someone's belongings for free...all the while effectively precluding you from re-renting the space and mitigating your damages (which is another issue here btw: if your tenants break a lease, both parties have a duty to mitigate the damages. It doesn't sound like they did a damn thing to reduce/mitigate your lost rent).

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

What a difference location makes. In Arizona, you could sell the stuff on ebay and sue the guy for the rest of the months rent and win. Tenants have zero rights here.

Go Arizona! :thumbsup:

 

[bigrash]

That sucks. I'd hold on to it for a few more days, or leave it in storage if you can.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

What state are you in? what law is that??? It's very surprising that you would be expected to store someone's belongings for free...all the while effectively precluding you from re-renting the space and mitigating your damages (which is another issue here btw: if your tenants break a lease, both parties have a duty to mitigate the damages. It doesn't sound like they did a damn thing to reduce/mitigate your lost rent).

I didn't say 'storage' was free, I said that you cannot dispose of their property. You can store their stuff and then charge them for it, or hold it for back rent if applicable, but that is different from disposing of it.

Past that, the main issue is that this isn't my 'tenant' and doesn't owe me any money at all (even if he owes her money as she claims). At this point he is more of a squatter than anything. I had no lease agreement with him, he has no responsibility to pay me anything, but he does clearly live in the house so I have to treat this delicately.

Regarding the tenant; yes, I could take her to court over the remainder of the lease. However, I'm not a slumlord and am not interested in getting a judgement out of a single mother who can't pay the rent anyway.

After you've done this awhile you learn that it's better to cycle out a bad tenant than try to take them to court over money owed. I will be able to rent the house back out within a month, so even if I did go to court I couldn't show any actual damages.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Call a trash hauling service and forward the bill the tenant. First, they guy isn't on the lease so he has absolutely no right to the stuff he left behind. Second, even if he was on the lease, the lease was effectively broken as of end of the end of December. This entails the removal of all personal property.

You are absolutely wrong... I suggest reading the thread thoroughly.

Being on a lease has nothing to do with residency. You can live somewhere as an adult and not be on the lease, and while I could sue my (former) tenant for any damages he causes as a sublease, I cannot throw away his stuff.

Furthermore, if he was on the lease this would be a non-issue.

 

[Corporate Thug]

You are absolutely wrong... I suggest reading the thread thoroughly.

Being on a lease has nothing to do with residency. You can live somewhere as an adult and not be on the lease, and while I could sue my (former) tenant for any damages he causes as a sublease, I cannot throw away his stuff.

Furthermore, if he was on the lease this would be a non-issue.

So my question is what law says you have to store his stuff for 30 days after a lease is broken? Isn't removal of belonging part of the breaking of the lease (or leaving the premises if he isn't on a lease)? Doesn't leaving the property behind handicap your efforts of re-renting?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I got a call back from my landlord tenant attorney.


Long story short, being that he's a known resident of the home I am required to show that I made a reasonable attempt to give him a 30 day notice to vacate no matter what the rent situation is. He suggested that I post a notice on the door as well as send a certified letter to the home in his name.

He said that I should not rekey the locks, and I should wait 30 days after the certified letter is delivered before preventing access. The lawyer's concern is that all the sudden his trashy couch/desk/etc are heirloom pieces and he tries to sue me for illegally disposing of his property. Also, just because he hasn't paid rent to my tenant (even as an illegal sublease) does not mean I can prevent access nor throw away his property. All of this boils down to the 30 day notice... He also made a good point, that my tenant initially gave me until Jan 31st before changing it to a 4 day notice for Dec 31st. She likely did the same to this guy, and he moved everything that fits in a car but seems to have left anything that requires a truck. Since he didn't get that 30 day notice, if I prevent access and he shows up this weekend to get the rest it would be a major issue that would fall on me. Ultimately he is her responsibility regarding damages (IE if he trashed the place I could sue her and win) but this is a very separate issue from him being a resident of the house and evicting him as a resident, lease or no lease.

That being said, my father tracked down his current place of employment. He's going to go talk to the guy tomorrow. Dad has secured the upstairs (2x4s screwed onto the backside of the door) so that the guy can only access the downstairs bedroom and will rekey every other lock on the home. Dad is also going to move his furniture into the garage so that carpet/paint can be finished, then move it back. We have two neighbors watching out for anyone coming onto the property.

Ultimately if I am able to rerent the house within this 30 day period I will move his stuff to my garage before throwing it all away at the end of 30 days, assuming we can't contact him.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

So my question is what law says you have to store his stuff for 30 days after a lease is broken? Isn't removal of belonging part of the breaking of the lease (or leaving the premises if he isn't on a lease)? Doesn't leaving the property behind handicap your efforts of re-renting?

What do you not understand about him not being on a lease and him not being served a 30 day notice? Seriously, read the thread. You clearly have only skimmed the details.