Replacing my PSU

[velis]

Well, since I installed my 8800GTS, my computer behaves really erratically, shutting down / freezing / rebooting all over the place. I got sick of it and decided to replace my PSU.

However, I have a serious dilemma: My current PSU is an Antec TruePower II 380W which at least on paper meets all the demands with 12V amperage rating (32 available / 26 needed). Additionally since measurements suggest that a computer at full load will never exceed 300W combined outlet power usage (typically ~250W), I'm really stumped as to why my current PSU is unable to handle the load properly. This is in my opinion ridiculous. Any explanation as to why my PSU would be underpowered would be very much appreciated.

Anyway, I've been looking at the Corsair models (520W, 620W) or a Seasonic Energy+ 550W units. The Seasonic and 520W Corsair both cost ~140? and the 620W Corsair costs ~180?. I find these PSUs quite expensive, but I refuse to buy some loud / inefficient crap.

Here's the setup:
ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe
Athlon 64 3800+ @ 2.5GHz
Corsair CMX512-3200C2 x2 (1GB total)
Club 3D 8800GTS
120 GB 7200 drive
300 GB 7200 drive
NEC ND3500A DVD/RW
Floppy
2x120mm fan
1x40mm fan (NB)

Are these PSUs sufficient to run my setup? Which one would you recommend?

 

[jpeyton]

The Corsairs will run your setup with some headroom left over.

 

[shroud72]

I just bought a 600watt OCZ GamerXtreme for 100? it seems like it should run my E6600, 8800GTX and 3 Sata drives without a problem. I did the math and for my system a 400watt would barely be enough but 600watts gives me plenty of headroom.
I've read somewhere that power supply's do lose efficiency and wattage so if your Antec Truepower 380 is very old this might be part of the problem.

 

[velis]

@shroud: The PSU is one year old, so no problems should stem from that.
What I find ridiculous is that PSUs have to be >500W to serve a system that fully loaded consumes 250W outlet power, that is before efficiency and power factor correction take their toll. I thought the rated amperages are for the direct current, not for input (alternating) current. Even so, a 380W PSU *should* handle ANY non-SLI system no problem IMHO. This must be some kind of bull from PSU manufacturers.

Anyway, will a 500W PSU offer me anough headroom to last for a while or should I really go for the 600W versions? I should mention that I'm kinda allergic to buying more than is actually needed so the real info I'm seeking is: how much power will a 500W PSU with 3x18A 12V, combined 480W (40A) REALLY provide?

If I understand correctly, 5V line is used for HDD actuators / logic, DVD motor / logic, chipset and that's about it. 3V line is only used for chipset and some PCI cards. 12V lines are used for CPU, GFX, fans and hard drive / DVD spindle motors. So the important specs to watch should then only be the 12V rails, namely how many, single line max amperage and combined max amperage. Edit: But I still need to know how to calculate the actual requirements of my system

 

[oynaz]

Why do you blame the PSU? 95% chance that your new VGA card is the culprit.

 

[velis]

If the card was the culprit, why did it work fine for a month before starting to lock up and stuff? I can't think of any reason why the card would initially work great, overclock great (not that I overclocked on a permanent basis, just done some testing) and then start failing at lower than stock frequencies.
Also, raising the CPU vcore reduces the problem significantly. The only voltage that fluctuates in the system is the CPU vcore and this one fluctuates more every day. Currently I'm at .08V fluctuations. Just two weeks ago they were still at .04. I put the entire computer to stock and maximized the voltages just to be able to use it with 1 - 2 crashes per day. Not raising the voltages puts me to constant crashing.

If I made a mistake diagnosing the problem, I just threw away ?140 on a new Corsair HX520W PSU, which I ordered today Oh well, at least I'll have a really good PSU

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

*deep sigh* velis, Google Fuhjyyu...Then read. I am also a member of jonnyguru > Forums and badcaps > Forums and you might see me in some posts there concerning your issue, via Google. Fuhjyyu has even made it into the Urban Dictionary and Wiki.

If you seek a cheaper but good and fairly quiet PSU in the 400W catagory, buy an Enhance ENP-5140GH(jonnyguru.com has a review up on this excellent unit) or buy a Silverstone Element in 400W. The Element will have sleeved cables and more SATA power connectors. Enhance distributes out of The Netherlands.
Enhance builds the Element and Strider series for Silverstone.

RMA the TP and sell it or keep it for a spare or for bench testing fans.
If you keep it for future use. Open it up and uprate both 80mm fans. The main one at the rear to 55cfm@12V and the one on the bottom to 40cfm@12V. This alone will give it some useful service life.

Using a torch, look at the caps buried amoungst the output wiring harness. You should be able to do this w/o opening the unit and killing it's warrenty. You will find bulging / venting Fuhjyyu craps.:shocked: Please report back on this.

Antec SP, TP, TPII and TRIO are junk imho. The NeoHE series are just OK and there are much better units out there at their price point. The new Antec Earth PSUs do not look that good internally. We will see how they review and what their service life is like.

The guys at badcaps.net will recap new or used SP, TP or TPII units and run them forever. Once high end caps are install they are very stable units, providing clean current.
You guys in the UK are keen about DIY projects...Recap your unit.

Cheers! :beer:

 

[Operandi]

I wouldn't consider the TruePower II 380W to be a particularly good PSU, the TruePower line as reputation for failing (even less then 12 months time is not uncommon).

 

[lobbyone]

:beer: for the Corsair!

 

[Twofootputt]

When I plug your specs in here, The tool came up with a recommended PSU of 389W. I'd probably add at least 20% for future upgrades and anomalies. That puts you in the 500W range.

 

[velis]

@GalvanizedYankee: OK, in 3 days i will get the new PSU and then I'll check for bad caps and report back (in this thread).
Currently I just want my comp to work again

@Twofootputt: I put in the specs and got 477W with 20% capacitor aging and a 8800GTX, not GTS I'm speechless. That must be some optimistic calculator :confused

 

[imported_AndyT]

One thing to remeber is that the 12v rails on a PSU are what takes the hardest hit when you have a modern motherboard that used the P4 connector and you are running a video card with high wattage.

I have found that the PSU calculators DO NOT take into consideration Amperage requrements nor do they accurately tell you the wattage is required. They should break it down to show what you 12v total min wattage should be and the min Amp requirements for each rail.

The design of the PSU greatly affects it's abilty to handle the new Vid cards, especially the dual GPU models. I work for OCZ and believe me I have seen plenty of problems and failed hardware resulting from a cheap, overated PSU. You get what you pay for and you only use the wattage you need anyway. Having a 600w PSU for this system is not out of line at all. Infact your next upgrade will likely require that wattage or more, just to keep from having the same issues.

Personally i would go 600w or even 700w if I wanted some upgrade potential.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

velis, read this thread in total.. http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=970

And yes the extreme calculator was designed to sell high output PSUs. It is set to figure everything coming on at once at full draw...Yeah right, like that happens everyday.

AndyT, The OCZ units based on the FSP Epsilon go out of ripple spec at full load and they use OST capacitors on the output/secondary side. What's that about? FSP using cheap craps on their flagship unit. No thank you!

If you need more velis, PM me or register over at jonnyguru.com/

 

[JEDIYoda]

Most if not all PSU calculators are very inaccurate.
From one to the nexzt you get different readings!
As was hinted at earlier somnetimews they are even meant to sell higher out put units....good luck!!

 

[velis]

Thanks guys.
@AndyT: I know what a cheap,overrated PSU can do. That's why I ordered the Corsair. I just couldn't find a PSU with better reviews and to top it all off, it's at the top of the SPCR recommended list. The alternative I was considering was Seasonic S12 550W, but it was easy enough to find the Corsair here in Slovenia Sorry about no OCZs being in any of my trusted charts
However:
@Galvanized: That thread is exactly what I was asking. How can my computer draw <300W (probably more like ~200W) from the outlet and still a stupid 380W PSU @70% efficiency can't handle that? Ridiculous. And I thought Antec was a good company So far they've disappointed me with the PSU (original failed and took the MB with it, replacement failing on what should be child's play for it) AND on the case (Sonata I - sucks in airflow and it's supposed to be a quiet lover's paradise). Grrrrr. Don't think I'm gonna buy from them again unless some reputable sites recommend them heavy.

 

[velis]

Originally posted by: AndyT
Personally i would go 600w or even 700w if I wanted some upgrade potential.

Just wanted to comment on this as well: I'm allergic to buying more than is actually needed + some sane reserve. Buying a 520W Corsair (as I have decided to do) seems a two fold overkill to me considering that my computer will never draw more than 250W from the outlet. With this in mind, I just ordered a PSU that is way too powerful and will never run at it's peak efficiency since I just won't be able to put that much load on it.

I decided to go for it since I don't know what actually influences the needed amperages and I know it will be enough, but I still say: BULL. A 200W PSU SHOULD be able to take care of my computer's needs, not some stupid overpowered piece of junk. Until somebody shows me why 32A cannot satisfy 20A peak usage (without subtracted efficiency), I say they're ripping us all off. For pete's sake, I just ordered a 40A 12V rated PSU to feed a 20A requirement. Oh no - sorry - it's actually 16A requirement. And that's not even subtracting the 5V and 3.3V requirements. Not to mention that my next GFX card will most likely rape this stupid PSU despite it having a "healthy" 30% reserve.

Note that this doesn't have anything to do with Corsair or any other PSU manufacturer in particular, just their spec methods. And people sue HDD companies for counting a GB as a billion bytes. Sheesh.

I'm sorry, I'm venting now and I think it's better I stop before I say something really stupid :roll:

 

[Operandi]

You're not the only one that got burned on the assumption that Antec makes high quality PSUs so don't feel too bad.

Personally for me it's Seasonic, Enhance, and Forton-Source, or any reputable company that uses the before mentioned names as a base (Zalman, Corsair, PCP&C).

 

[engiNURD]

Check out http://psu.thetruck.net

 

[velis]

OK, got my Corsair HX520W and everything is back to normal. I just spent the whole day playing games and the computer didn't freeze once

I also took some shots of some capacitors in my Antec unit. They're (of course) Fuhyyu.

Capacitors

Please forgive the blurriness of the images. I just couldn't macro focus well enough to have a completely sharp image.
To explain where these were: I placed the PSU upside-down (120mm fan on top) with exhaust on my left side and cables on the right side.
These capacitors are in the upper right corner, just visible through the 120mm intake fan blades.

I believe the picture says it all. I guess I'm lucky half of my computer didn't fry this time like the first time. :roll:

 

[velis]

Hmmm, I wonder if I can just demand my money back? The PSU is a good year old and obviously I won't be needing it again.

 

[mnitetrain]

Not sure if I read it here or another forum but I think recall seeing Antec replacing/upgrading those on RMA-if it works do the RMA/upgrade and sell it. I have found a lot of great info here and on junnyguru.