Republicans celebrate Pelosi's win...

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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Find the article. because if the polls were accurate than HRC would have won.

And why did HRC have "heavy liabilities"? I think you have the problem already baked into your line of reasoning, and therefore are maybe blind to the fact that HRC's "liabilities" are no more significant than any other politicians liabilities, only HRC had an entire network of GOP politicians, investigative committees, and PACs working against her, for YEARS. Going back to Kenneth Starr. 30 years of investigations, hearings, rinse recycle, repeat, ad nausem. Trey Gowdy? I mean seriously... and after 30 years she remains a public servant. She wasn't indicted for fraud, or espionage, or any other crime. She weathered it all. And now, she is crucified for having "heavy liabilities"

No, that doesn't work for me. You don't get to obstruct, demonize, lie, and distort the truth about HRC and manipulate me into thinking she is a bad person after everything. I can go after Trump for "grabbing pussys" or bankruptcy or for hiding the truth (tax returns) among all the other stuff because HE DID THOSE THINGS. So yes, I do believe that 30 years of propoganda took a toll. If you remember, that is how Obama won the nomination away from Hillary too.

People like John Kerry, Al Gore, HIllary Clinton, they suffer all from the same thing. They are career public servants and that somehow translates to a bad thing. I'd rather have someone like that in office than a complete wild card like Trump.
The media did go after Trump for all of those things. Once the debates were over, most of the conservatives retreated from these boards in total defeat and depression. Liberals were cracking open the champagne and gloating.

And then it all blew up.

I hate to use the buzzword optics, but Clinton's decision making and ability to deflect scrutiny absolutely sucked.

Trump arrogantly and quite boldly deflected criticism of his character by going bigger and louder. Clinton and her handlers and surrogates and committees couldn't get their story straight.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,252
16,572
136
The media did go after Trump for all of those things. Once the debates were over, most of the conservatives retreated from these boards in total defeat and depression. Liberals were cracking open the champagne and gloating.

And then it all blew up.

I hate to use the buzzword optics, but Clinton's decision making and ability to deflect scrutiny absolutely sucked.

Trump arrogantly and quite boldly deflected criticism of his character by going bigger and louder. Clinton and her handlers and surrogates and committees couldn't get their story straight.

Yep she was a horrible politician but a damn fine public servant.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
In objective reality, political propaganda is astonishingly effective in winning elections, as demonstrated by this so-called worst candidate in modern history.
I mean, cmon, there are still millions of Americans who sincerely believe bullshit like Hillary sold America's uranium to Russia for personal profit, or that Hillary was the Wall Street candidate while Trump fills his cabinet with GS executives.

Propaganda is supposed to make someone look good while making their opponent look bad.

All of what you quoted including the "Hillary being the Wall street candidate" also pointed out by Bernie, paled in comparison to the full onslaught that the media used against Trump which was given to them on a silver platter by Trump "like grab them by the pussy", losing 3 debates, had his own party and many of their supporters against him, and of course being obnoxious as hell,

Democrats calling Trump a buffoon among other things and then claim he ran a more effective campaign then Hillary because "Propaganda" is cognitive dissonance at best and complete and utter denial of why she lost at worst.

Obama the "Inexperienced, Kenyan, Marxist, Muslim, God damn America" black man who took out "the chosen one" Hillary in the 2008 primaries as well as John McCain in the general election and then came around and beat Romney in 2012 in a "racist white majority privileged country" while getting pounded 24/7 by Propaganda, racist and otherwise,

is what Democrats should have been looking for as a candidate, not a self entitled old lady who was past her political prime, because "it was her turn".
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Heh. You're still practicing the concern troll form of propaganda. Hillary got slimed. Trump played off of culture war resentment at the same time.
I've consistently expressed concern around Clinton's vulnerabilities. Those concerns were well founded and they were proven correct.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
I've consistently expressed concern around Clinton's vulnerabilities. Those concerns were well founded and they were proven correct.

If you mean that you've been tearing her down at every opportunity, you'd be correct.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
Democrats calling Trump a buffoon among other things and then claim he ran a more effective campaign then Hillary because "Propaganda" is cognitive dissonance at best and complete and utter denial of why she lost at worst.

Trump & the Repubs created a reality distortion field when the candidates were judged on a double standard. Trump could shoot somebody & get away with it. Hillary can't get any slack over her pantsuits.

The whole attitude over tax returns reveals that entirely.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
If you mean that you've been tearing her down at every opportunity, you'd be correct.
I can't find reason to tear down Warren or Sanders or Obama. I respectfully disagree with some of their positions but admire their character and leadership.

She tore herself down. My commentary is nothing more than observational.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
I can't find reason to tear down Warren or Sanders or Obama. I respectfully disagree with some of their positions but admire their character and leadership.

She tore herself down. My commentary is nothing more than observational.

That's because none of them were running for president at the head of the Democratic ticket in 2016. Your efforts have been entirely transparent.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
That's because none of them were running for president at the head of the Democratic ticket in 2016. Your efforts have been entirely transparent.
Incredibly transparent. We would not be in this predicament if Clinton was not coronated to the head of the ticket.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Propaganda is supposed to make someone look good while making their opponent look bad.

All of what you quoted including the "Hillary being the Wall street candidate" also pointed out by Bernie, paled in comparison to the full onslaught that the media used against Trump which was given to them on a silver platter by Trump "like grab them by the pussy", losing 3 debates, had his own party and many of their supporters against him, and of course being obnoxious as hell,

Democrats calling Trump a buffoon among other things and then claim he ran a more effective campaign then Hillary because "Propaganda" is cognitive dissonance at best and complete and utter denial of why she lost at worst.

Obama the "Inexperienced, Kenyan, Marxist, Muslim, God damn America" black man who took out "the chosen one" Hillary in the 2008 primaries as well as John McCain in the general election and then came around and beat Romney in 2012 in a "racist white majority privileged country" while getting pounded 24/7 by Propaganda, racist and otherwise,

is what Democrats should have been looking for as a candidate, not a self entitled old lady who was past her political prime, because "it was her turn".
Well said.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
It's amazing to watch many lefties fail to grasp obvious reality. They cling to the pathetic notion that illary's defeat was all because of the evil right wing smear machine and other evil factors. It's laughable. Obviously that same smear machine was not able to do anything to hamper obummer, he easily won two elections, had record turnout and votes (hey, so much for that evil racist white country bs) and would have easily trounced Trump had he been able to run again.

The reason Trump, the most disliked candidate in the history of elections with major baggage who continued to shoot himself in the foot at each turn was able to defeat illary is because she's a horrible candidate, a chronic liar and a horrible person.

Pelosi is the face of failure and failed politics. Having her continue to be leader of the dems in the house is a gift to the R's.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,252
16,572
136
It's amazing to watch many lefties fail to grasp obvious reality. They cling to the pathetic notion that illary's defeat was all because of the evil right wing smear machine and other evil factors. It's laughable. Obviously that same smear machine was not able to do anything to hamper obummer, he easily won two elections, had record turnout and votes (hey, so much for that evil racist white country bs) and would have easily trounced Trump had he been able to run again.

The reason Trump, the most disliked candidate in the history of elections with major baggage who continued to shoot himself in the foot at each turn was able to defeat illary is because she's a horrible candidate, a chronic liar and a horrible person.

Pelosi is the face of failure and failed politics. Having her continue to be leader of the dems in the house is a gift to the R's.

She was so bad that she had the third most votes of any presidential election and had more votes by a hefty margin then the actual winner. She lost because her strategy wasn't as good as trumps.

As far as Pelosi goes, she's one of the most successful speakers of the house in modern history in terms of legislative accomplishments. Its no wonder you are doing your damndest to try and discredit her.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
106
Propaganda is supposed to make someone look good while making their opponent look bad.

All of what you quoted including the "Hillary being the Wall street candidate" also pointed out by Bernie, paled in comparison to the full onslaught that the media used against Trump which was given to them on a silver platter by Trump "like grab them by the pussy", losing 3 debates, had his own party and many of their supporters against him, and of course being obnoxious as hell,

Democrats calling Trump a buffoon among other things and then claim he ran a more effective campaign then Hillary because "Propaganda" is cognitive dissonance at best and complete and utter denial of why she lost at worst.

Obama the "Inexperienced, Kenyan, Marxist, Muslim, God damn America" black man who took out "the chosen one" Hillary in the 2008 primaries as well as John McCain in the general election and then came around and beat Romney in 2012 in a "racist white majority privileged country" while getting pounded 24/7 by Propaganda, racist and otherwise,

is what Democrats should have been looking for as a candidate, not a self entitled old lady who was past her political prime, because "it was her turn".
I would almost believe you except for the fact that Hillary got over 2.5 million more votes than Trump.

Also factor in the alternative reality that half of the country believes. The media onlsaught against Trump amounted to nothing but noise to Republicans. How many national and international media papers and outlets endorsed Hillary and not Trump? Even some of the conservative news magazines endorsed Hillary. But when half of the country buys the coolaid that the media is biased and the system is rigged, nothing that anyone says in the REAL world really matters.

Like one of the posters above said, it is a "reality distortion field" that is impenetrable. And as another poster above pointed out, just look at the issue of the Tax Returns to see a perfect example why. If Hillary refused to release her tax returns (something Her and Bill Clinton have been doing for decades) the republican party would have gone apoplectic!
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Judging from his picks, it looks like they're doing that reasonably well. GWB 2.0, on steroids & meth.
Hey, what you got against steroids and meth? After all, I'm a roided out druggie according to folks here.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,178
1,776
126
What's good for the goose . . . sauce for the gander -- isn't necessarily spiteful in polite intellectual discourse -- of which I've seen less and less over the last year and a half.

I was going to provide a litany as to why -- in the end -- I can only trust conclusions that I've made independently with as many facts and solid inferences that I can try myself to test or destroy. But that would be Trumpian behavior or the appearance of it, so let's get to the thread's idea.

I think it's a crap-shoot with several possibilities, and note that the Repubs have already formed an optimistic conclusion about Pelosi. I was sitting in a restaurant with a retired plasma physicist in September, who assured me that Clinton would win. He certainly went away with understanding of my great anxiety to the contrary.

She (Pelosi) never offended me. I never heard her say something that was in any way easy to call stupid, and that's an overly cautious appraisal. I thought she was just fine.

The Repubs of a committed allegiance are always quick to diminish Pelosi. That's because they think they're right about everything, and that Pelosi, a woman, from Left-Coast California, isn't right about anything. There's no in-between.

I'll also argue about organizational change and stupidity. You can make organizational changes just for appearance' sake, wasting a great deal of money, distressing a lot of people, and perhaps turning the working into the working-wounded.

"We got hit by a comet; let's replace the astronomer." Even if you were warned by the astronomer and there wasn't time left.

I think if folks revisit the last year, we went from too many candidates, debates without substance, mantras about Obama-the-worst-ever, terror-hoaxes, and a Theater of the Absurd which then led to a primary nomination. Then, many of the faithful goo-goo-eyed in partisan allegiance gathered around the new-born like the relatives in Rosemary's Baby as they rocked that cradle furiously. Others defected, John Warner for instance.

Now, the rule for the Trump White House is loyalty. They've put people in charge of agencies with no connection whatsoever to the very legitimate public interests those institutions serve, other than to destroy them. There are too many among them who aren't only just unprepared, but lacking in clarity of thought and other virtues.

So you tell me. When the shouting of the Faithful begins to wane, or if it is drowned out by the Living as well as thousands howling down the victors from the grave, why are we so tied in a knot over Pelosi and Ryan?

They'll get together and plot a course forward.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,178
1,776
126
You mean had she not won a strong majority in the Democratic primaries.

And the count is growing. You may remember the mousey-looking focus-group Trump supporter Alice. A day or two ago, she said -- with a totally-believable straight face -- that there were 3 million cases of voter fraud in California because there were 3 million estimated undocumented people. [Illegals or whatever. The two words can be argued either way without proving totally wrong.]
 
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