Restoring SSD Performance

vjbelle

Junior Member
Apr 12, 2009
9
0
0
I recently purchased a pair of Intel 80GB drives to use in a raid 0 system drive environment. Eventually I will want to restore the drives to peak performance but do not have the choice of using HDD Secure (I am in a Mac environment). I came across a utility called WipeDrive which claims to meet national defense and HIPPA standards for disk wiping and am wondering whether this will be enough to wipe my SSD's so as to get them back to peak performance.

Any response is greatly appreciated.

Victor
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
no it will not, it will bring them to the worst state possible. You MUST use a tool that is meant specifically for SSDs. If you want to understand why, simply read about how SSDs work...

That being said... they will not get worse over time, merely remain in steady state, and even if you brought them to new status, it will only last a few weeks before its back at steady state... the only real solution is getting the TRIM command, which will eventually be added to windows7 (and ONLY windows 7) and require you to flash the firmware of the drive with a newer one support trim (Assuming intel releases such an update)
 

vjbelle

Junior Member
Apr 12, 2009
9
0
0
Thank you for your very quick reply..... I did read that article and thought that maybe this software would mimic HDD Secure. However, if I understand your reply even HDD Secure would not be a viable tool for restoration. As that very well written article stated, my SSD's in their worst state are substantially faster than their spinning counterparts.

Thanks again for the reply,

Victor
 

vjbelle

Junior Member
Apr 12, 2009
9
0
0
no it will not, it will bring them to the worst state possible. You MUST use a tool that is meant specifically for SSDs.

This cannot be entirely accurate. If it were then HDD Erase could never be used for restoring a SSD to its original state. HDD Erase overwrites the drive just as WipeDrive does. I had posted the original question to find out if there was a difference between HDD Erase and WipeDrive. Even using the Trim command (when it becomes universally available) will not prevent SSD deterioration - it only slows the process. Ultimately the drive will have to be restored or replaced - at least that's how I understand things.
 

IBDoomed

Member
Aug 3, 2002
55
0
0
Originally posted by: vjbelle Ultimately the drive will have to be restored or replaced - at least that's how I understand things.

Even at steady state, random access, where it matters if you're buying these, will blow away anything disk based and still last at least 5 years. Besides, if you're adopting these this early in the technology (as I am as well, I've rolled out dozens of them to some of my end users), you'll replace them far before they are no longer useful with the next latest and greatest.

I don't meant to snap at you. You're not coming across as negative and whiny like a lot of people are lately about SSD's, I just get tired of it.
 

VStrom

Senior member
Dec 27, 2004
423
0
71
Mitron has something on their site regarding the longevity of the MLC drives and it is something like 50+ years with normal usage. I'd post the link but I don't have it off hand but it was on their site.
 

vjbelle

Junior Member
Apr 12, 2009
9
0
0
I am in total agreement..... this technology will march on very quickly and these drives will be tossed to the wayside. I was simply curious whether or not WipeDrive was similar/mimicked HDD Erase. If it was then, just in case I wanted to, I could use it to restore my SSD's to their original state.

I'm actually only using 22GB of a two drive stripe that totals 148GB...... I don't imagine that I will have any significant degradation issues.

Thanks for the reply..

Victor
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: vjbelle
no it will not, it will bring them to the worst state possible. You MUST use a tool that is meant specifically for SSDs.

This cannot be entirely accurate. If it were then HDD Erase could never be used for restoring a SSD to its original state. HDD Erase overwrites the drive just as WipeDrive does. I had posted the original question to find out if there was a difference between HDD Erase and WipeDrive. Even using the Trim command (when it becomes universally available) will not prevent SSD deterioration - it only slows the process. Ultimately the drive will have to be restored or replaced - at least that's how I understand things.

you are wrong on ALL counts, no really, not a single statement you made was true, every single one of them was wrong. just go read the ssd articles in anandtech and pcper.com
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
ach... ok ok... ill be me specific even though noone asked yet:
1. IT IS completely accurate that an erase tool MUST have been made for SSD use, one made for regular drives will NOT help with SSD performance at all.
2. No SSD restore tool "overwrites" the drive with 0 or 1...
3. Tools that are used to "Secure erase" write 0 to everything instead of just deleting the file allocation table... so that the file table could not be reconstructed from the data that is STILL THERE.
4. Tools that do "CIA level security" or whatever it is called, overwrite everything with 0, than 1, then a mix of the two again and again and again... so as to prevent magnetic residue on the platter, so a theoretical godlike alien power could not somehow use their magic supertech to read the data on it. After which they grind it, then melt it, then post a GUARD To guard the melted balls of metal that used to be a drive (I am not kidding you, they do)... it is all very stupid as you just need to pass it over a strong degausser and not even god could restore the data.
5. I don't know what the intel tool is called, it has an option to SPECIFICALLY restore an SSD, any other tool will not do that, weather HDD erase or wipedrive is that intel tool is unknown to me (because i don't remember its name, i think it is a different name though, in which case there IS no difference between the two)
6. Using the trim command WILL prevent any and ALL SSD speed loss.
7. No you will never need to restore the drive again after you have TRIM command, it will do NOTHING.

The fact you even think 6 and 7 are true shows you simply did not read or did not comprehend that anandtech article... the steadystate loss of speed is caused by the fact that you need to read-erase-write every time instead of just write (with erases actually happening when you erase the data), trim means the data is erased when it is erased.
 

vjbelle

Junior Member
Apr 12, 2009
9
0
0
Now see..... you really can be a little more specific!! I really do appreciate it even though it does not address my specific question which is whether WipeDrive is the same as HDD Secure. BUT, that does not matter. You did point me to another site which just happened to post an article about the firmware update for Intel SSD's. The timing is unbelievable!!

Anyway, the firmware update is a huge improvement for those drives that have almost been trashed to death - you can read the post for yourself at pcper.com and download the update and instructions from the link at the end of the post.

Thanks again.....

Victor
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
oh, you were refering to the intel drive SPECIFICALLY not to SSD tech in general..

there was a bug in the intel firmware that caused SOME drives to have severely degraded performance (which occurred after they were exposed to some rare writing situation)... so the new firmware fixes that bug.
While steady state is involved its not the cause, the cause is controller bug. So its not that the drives will "degrade forever", but that if you have and older firmware intel drive it will degrade to steady state (where it is still fastest on the market), at which point it stops degrading unless it gets into this weird write situation and gets all messed up.

"It should be noted that any of our SSDs will see periods of reduced performance after significant random write fragmentation (white noise random fragmentation, not what Windows generally does with it?s ?random? writes) as the drive cleans this all up mixed with additional data being written. This new firmware does not change this fact. What it does do is prevent the drive from getting into a state where further sequential writing will not recover the drive. You should see this with HDTach, or a large file copy, or just general use, etc. So, if a drive is in what previously seemed to be a permanently degraded state (as discussed, we still feel this is highly unlikely for a client PC user), and a user installs the new firmware they will feel an instant improvement for any sequential operations, which will get better in time as the drive cleans itself up further. This firmware will also prevent the user from getting into such a drastic state of fragmentation, and generally help ensure the sequential write performance is as good as it can be at any moment. This change really has no significant impact on random performance."

This "white noise" writing caused the firmware to crap out pretty much.

steadystate is an approximate figure, its not an EXACT figure of write speed, steady state should no exist in a controller with trim, in a controller without it SHOULD remain around a certain figure, getting worse and then GETTING BETTER as you write, that is because there is no physical degradation of the drive involved.

The problem is that you can write to individual 4kb blocks, but can only erase them in groups of 128. So if you want to write 4kb to the first group, you have to read 127 blocks, erase all 128, then write back those 127 + the 1 you wanted to write... need to make another write to same group? repeat.

the reason steadystate fluctuates is that sometimes you tell it "overwrite 16 blocks" that happen to be on the same group of 128 that erase together. weather they are on the same group or are on different groups makes a difference and depends on the kind of data you have written to it before.

The controller doesn't KNOW that 60 out of the 128 blocks in that group contain data that was erased... to save time on a spindle drive, the OS never tells the drive to erase something, it just says "change block # from containing data Y to data Z"
Trim will actually TELL the drive "user deleted blocks #, # and #" and the controller can choose to erase them NOW leaving them ready for a full speed write, or just keep that data for later and keep X% of the drive "clean" or whatever it is that they choose to do. (varies by firmware)
 

DarthRevan

Senior member
Nov 29, 2007
232
0
76
Hey guys, what are you talking about? Will my SSD die in like 5 years? It´s a Patriot Warp V2 SSD 32GB, and it has only Vista, Sound, Video and MoBo drivers installed on it, for fast boot times. Is there a way I can make it better? I didn´t know it would get slower over time, if I format it will the perfomance be restored?
 

Digobick

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,467
0
76
Originally posted by: DarthRevan
Hey guys, what are you talking about? Will my SSD die in like 5 years? It´s a Patriot Warp V2 SSD 32GB, and it has only Vista, Sound, Video and MoBo drivers installed on it, for fast boot times. Is there a way I can make it better? I didn´t know it would get slower over time, if I format it will the perfomance be restored?

Your SSD is fine, but formatting won't speed it up. Read Anand's SSD Anthology for more information about how SSDs work, and why they get slower after they've been used for awhile.
 

DarthRevan

Senior member
Nov 29, 2007
232
0
76
I didnt undestand it. What should I do to restore its perfomance If even a format won´t help it?
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
nothing, just use it.

if you want to increase performance there are some tweaks out there, formatting is not one of them.
 

DarthRevan

Senior member
Nov 29, 2007
232
0
76
i´ve seen those tweaks, they increased a little of perfomance here, but I didn´t do all of them, for example disabling the suerfetch. Why would it help!?
 
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