RIAA at it again

[mugs]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
i have a question.

why aren't the RIAA and MPAA going after the newsgroups? i don't use them myself at all but I know people who do, and stuff that is released in the 'scene' is on the newsgroups within hours usually, and the newsgroups are very open to the public. how come the newsgroups dont get any attention?

Because they know there will always be people who will find a way to pirate. They want to go after the more accessible methods, the ones the bulk of the people use to pirate. They do have people on the inside in the "release groups" and whatnot, and they have shut some down.

 

[40Hands]

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: Modeps
I hate the people who steal music because they force CD prices to climb ever higher, paying the artists nothing, because they're trying to protect their wallet.

They should be held to the same standards as every other company and individual in the United States and be sued individually, incurring the costs associated therewith.

FIXED

You don't know what your talking about. Show me that piracy has caused the price of CDs to go up.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: gigapet
good luck getting money out of broke college kids.

Look at the schools they targetted. Princeton, Harvard, NYU. Not exactly low-end schools.

 

[Mathlete]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Amused
The cause is the sense of entitlement. Blaming the music industry for people stealing their music is like blaming a woman for her own rape because she was wearing a short skirt.

People are stealing because they don't think it's wrong. They DO feel entitled to it. It's a cultural problem.

Amused, I hate to break your little <insert political spectrum here>-wing conspiracy theory, but it's not about entitlement. It just boils down to free music, why pay for it when you can get it for free? People don't feel entitled, they're thrifty.

They are thiefs. End of discussion. The real question we should be asking is why people don't have any morals. They feel it is wrong for the "man" to jack up the CD prices so I'll just steal them. What they fail to realize is that by stealing music they are actually making the price worse for the people that have some moral fiber and are paying for music.

 

[EndGame]

Originally posted by: gigapet
good luck getting money out of broke college kids.

If they are awarded a judgement (and it looks like they almost always are or it is settled out of court) the judgement or agreement will stay with them until it is paid off by garnishement or whatever means available.

 

[rocadelpunk]

sucks for those kids.

lesson be learned, listen to indie music that isn't on riaa watch list ; P

 

[Modeps]

Mathlete, there have been many studies done on the subject, 1/2 of them say piracy is hurting business, the other 1/2 say it's actually helping business. I dont condone piracy and never will... But look at publishers that are not under the umbrella of the RIAA, they can afford to release CDs for $10 a piece in their own online music stores (I'm talking about HARD COPIES not digital downloads). Why is this?

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

So when you are buying a CD you are not paying for distribution/transportation costs? The cost of utilities at brick and mortar stores? Employees? Loss Prevention? Etc?

Since when do you have the right to take something for free because you don't like the price? Or even if you don't like their "business model?" That argument was just an excuse, and it's not a valid excuse. Amused is right, people feel they're entitled to it for free, and they won't stop.

Edit: They won't stop unless they're given a huge financial incentive to stop - hence the lawsuits.

Wow, you get a little fired up about this don't ya? Don't preach to me about morals when it comes to this. I am pointing out a common argument and you assume that I steal tons of music because I think their business model is broken. Focus on the argument and not on the person presenting the argument. Tone is a good thing to check for first. Thanks.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
thats it.. boycott time.

This is what I don't understand. Instead of these "business model" protesters simply boycotting the music and thus having the courage of their convictions, they steal it and share it.

How about me buying it and then sharing it? I don't know how you were raised, but my parents always told me to share.

 

[0roo0roo]

..their sales are going up despite of piracy. theres no reason to increase prices, they aren't taking mortal losses or actual loss of material. they may lose a potential sale, but they don't actually lose money like in physical goods. their prices have been too high for too long to begin with.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
..their sales are going up despite of piracy. theres no reason to increase prices, they aren't taking mortal losses or actual loss of material. they may lose a potential sale, but they don't actually lose money like in physical goods. their prices have been too high for too long to begin with.

Not a single valid argument for theft.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
thats it.. boycott time.

This is what I don't understand. Instead of these "business model" protesters simply boycotting the music and thus having the courage of their convictions, they steal it and share it.

How about me buying it and then sharing it? I don't know how you were raised, but my parents always told me to share.

Wasn't this deemed okay by the courts back in the '80s around the time the BetaMax/VHS came out?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
thats it.. boycott time.

This is what I don't understand. Instead of these "business model" protesters simply boycotting the music and thus having the courage of their convictions, they steal it and share it.

How about me buying it and then sharing it? I don't know how you were raised, but my parents always told me to share.

Wasn't this deemed okay by the courts back in the '80s around the time the BetaMax/VHS came out?

It's OK to share, but not to distribute on a large scale. Making a copyrighted song available for DL to everyone on the web is illegal distribution.

 

[drnickriviera]

Originally posted by: Amused

The cause is the sense of entitlement. Blaming the music industry for people stealing their music is like blaming a woman for her own rape because she was wearing a short skirt.

People are stealing because they don't think it's wrong. They DO feel entitled to it. It's a cultural problem.

I think you are wrong, for many it is the business model.

Ok, so you are paying for the rights to play the song. So why can't they offer higher bitrate music? 128kbps MP3's are pitiful. I can buy the CD for the same price. Rip it to whatever format/bitrate I want and do whatever I want with the song.

You buy it from an online store.
A. You get a poor selection
B. Poor quality mp3's (Never heard and ACC but they say it's lossless??)
C. Many have digital rights or are subscription based, so you can't even do what you want with it.

Only advantage online stores have is a la cart.

And yes I have bought music from the stores. I stopped because of my 1st 2 points. I listen to a wide variety of music and no one has exactly what I want

 

People are stealing because they don't think it's wrong. They DO feel entitled to it. It's a cultural problem.

I agree with you. Thing is, the recording industry created the problem. Culture created the industry, so it's a cyclical problem.

They feel it is wrong for the "man" to jack up the CD prices so I'll just steal them. What they fail to realize is that by stealing music they are actually making the price worse for the people that have some moral fiber and are paying for music.

Biggest fallacy ever.

This was an underground activity(trading software and music), then the masses got involved and got caught with their pants down. Then they complain when they get a lawsuit slapped on them. :roll:
They shouldn't be involved in such activities, they have no clue what they are doing, and I have very little sympathy for them.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
thats it.. boycott time.

This is what I don't understand. Instead of these "business model" protesters simply boycotting the music and thus having the courage of their convictions, they steal it and share it.

How about me buying it and then sharing it? I don't know how you were raised, but my parents always told me to share.

Wasn't this deemed okay by the courts back in the '80s around the time the BetaMax/VHS came out?

It's OK to share, but not to distribute on a large scale. Making a copyrighted song available for DL to everyone on the web is illegal distribution.

Gotcha. I couldn't remember if anything recent had revisited the ruling or not.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: drnickriviera

Originally posted by: Amused

The cause is the sense of entitlement. Blaming the music industry for people stealing their music is like blaming a woman for her own rape because she was wearing a short skirt.

People are stealing because they don't think it's wrong. They DO feel entitled to it. It's a cultural problem.

I think you are wrong, for many it is the business model.

Ok, so you are paying for the rights to play the song. So why can't they offer higher bitrate music? 128kbps MP3's are pitiful. I can buy the CD for the same price. Rip it to whatever format/bitrate I want and do whatever I want with the song.

You buy it from an online store.
A. You get a poor selection
B. Poor quality mp3's (Never heard and ACC but they say it's lossless??)
C. Many have digital rights or are subscription based, so you can't even do what you want with it.

Only advantage online stores have is a la cart.

And yes I have bought music from the stores. I stopped because of my 1st 2 points. I listen to a wide variety of music and no one has exactly what I want

Disliking a business model is NOT a valid excuse for theft.

And, again, for most it's just an excuse.

If they REALLY had the courage of their convictions they would boycott all major label music completely. Instead, they pack their HDs with the stuff for free.

Reason? No. Excuse? Yes.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
..their sales are going up despite of piracy. theres no reason to increase prices, they aren't taking mortal losses or actual loss of material. they may lose a potential sale, but they don't actually lose money like in physical goods. their prices have been too high for too long to begin with.

Not a single valid argument for theft.

i wasn't making one. i find their reaction excessive. sh*tting on your potential customers... bad move. remember if the record execs had their way, taping off the radio would have been illegal."theft". they've made it clear at every point how they think.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

So when you are buying a CD you are not paying for distribution/transportation costs? The cost of utilities at brick and mortar stores? Employees? Loss Prevention? Etc?

Since when do you have the right to take something for free because you don't like the price? Or even if you don't like their "business model?" That argument was just an excuse, and it's not a valid excuse. Amused is right, people feel they're entitled to it for free, and they won't stop.

Edit: They won't stop unless they're given a huge financial incentive to stop - hence the lawsuits.

Wow, you get a little fired up about this don't ya? Don't preach to me about morals when it comes to this. I am pointing out a common argument and you assume that I steal tons of music because I think their business model is broken. Focus on the argument and not on the person presenting the argument. Tone is a good thing to check for first. Thanks.

I'm not fired up... I was presenting a retort to your argument... Which you ignored... I didn't assume you steal tons of music, you pulled that one out of the air.

Edit: When I said "you" in my post, I was using it the same way you did in your post... not referring to any particular individual.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
thats it.. boycott time.

This is what I don't understand. Instead of these "business model" protesters simply boycotting the music and thus having the courage of their convictions, they steal it and share it.

How about me buying it and then sharing it? I don't know how you were raised, but my parents always told me to share.

Wasn't this deemed okay by the courts back in the '80s around the time the BetaMax/VHS came out?

It's OK to share, but not to distribute on a large scale. Making a copyrighted song available for DL to everyone on the web is illegal distribution.

Nah, that is just sharing with alot of friends.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
..their sales are going up despite of piracy. theres no reason to increase prices, they aren't taking mortal losses or actual loss of material. they may lose a potential sale, but they don't actually lose money like in physical goods. their prices have been too high for too long to begin with.

Not a single valid argument for theft.

i wasn't making one. i find their reaction excessive. sh*tting on your potential customers... bad move. remember if the record execs had their way, taping off the radio would have been illegal."theft". they've made it clear at every point how they think.

We all pay for theft, no matter what it is.

And I wouldn't want people getting free copies of my work product, either. I don;t blame them for trying to find a way to stop people from getting free copies off the radio. I would have done it too.

And so would you (if you actually sat down and thought about it objectively).

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

So when you are buying a CD you are not paying for distribution/transportation costs? The cost of utilities at brick and mortar stores? Employees? Loss Prevention? Etc?

Since when do you have the right to take something for free because you don't like the price? Or even if you don't like their "business model?" That argument was just an excuse, and it's not a valid excuse. Amused is right, people feel they're entitled to it for free, and they won't stop.

Edit: They won't stop unless they're given a huge financial incentive to stop - hence the lawsuits.

Wow, you get a little fired up about this don't ya? Don't preach to me about morals when it comes to this. I am pointing out a common argument and you assume that I steal tons of music because I think their business model is broken. Focus on the argument and not on the person presenting the argument. Tone is a good thing to check for first. Thanks.

I'm not fired up... I was presenting a retort to your argument... Which you ignored... I didn't assume you steal tons of music, you pulled that one out of the air.

I dunno I guess I was confused by the word 'you'. But that is why I feel that these people steal the music. They know they can steal it, it's available, the government doesn't seem to care, and people would rather talk about steroids in baseball than the massive amount of media being stolen over the internet every second. It just hasn't been hammered home that this is wrong and until that is done it will continue. That is unless something in the business model is done to remove the desire to steal.

I think we all agree here, for the most part, but are looking at it from two different sides. I'm trynig to explain why I think the stealing occurs and a lot of you guys are just saying 'stealing is wrong'. That doesn't help the situation imho.

 

[Mathlete]

Originally posted by: BroeBo

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: Modeps
I hate the people who steal music because they force CD prices to climb ever higher, paying the artists nothing, because they're trying to protect their wallet.

They should be held to the same standards as every other company and individual in the United States and be sued individually, incurring the costs associated therewith.

FIXED

You don't know what your talking about. Show me that piracy has caused the price of CDs to go up.

Read the INDEPENDENT study

decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit

edit: spelling (thanks modeps)

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I'm trynig to explain why I think the stealing occurs and a lot of you guys are just saying 'stealing is wrong'. That doesn't help the situation imho.

Yes, it does. Peer pressure and public outrage are far better keepers of the peace than laws, lawsuits and cops.

Morality is best enforced by societal pressure.

The "nod-nod, wink-wink, say no more" attitude is what is fueling intellectual property theft more than anything else. People know it's illegal, but do not feel it's immoral. They feel entitled and justified by silly arguments such as yours.

 

[oboeguy]

Originally posted by: Modeps
I hate the RIAA because they file blanket lawsuits against people and force CD prices to climb ever higher, paying their artists practically nothing, not because they're trying to protect their investment.

They should be held to the same standards as every other company and individual in the United States and file lawsuits individually, incurring the costs associated therewith.

What Mo said.