RIAA at it again

[isasir]

This makes me wonder if people would still continue to get music freely in droves like they currently do if the RIAA started marketing music online and charging for it right away instead of waiting so many years before doing such.

I think by the time iTunes and the like came out, everyone and their mother knew you could get music for "free", partly due to the RIAA suing people and giving it publicity. (Hell, I first found out about Napster because of a link here regarding the RIAA years ago)

 

[Modeps]

Mathlete, it's spelled 'independent'... but as I pointed out before, there are a ton of studies that have been done. 1/2 show piracy hurts, 1/2 say piracy helps... I put little credence in any study released that's not almost unanimously accepted.

 

[edro]

In Soviet Russia, ALLOFMP3 owns YOU, RIAA!

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Oops! Maybe the RIAA will figure out sooner or later that people are going to continue to download regardless of how many people they file against. Maybe it's time to start blaming the current business model that causes the piracy instead of blaming the piracy...

They already sell single songs, and over the internet, too.

How else would they stop this? Give the music away?

That's about it. They'd have to give it away.

Music piracy is not about objections to business models. It is about a sense of entitlement and theft.

Nah, I disagree. When you're selling songs online for the same song/$ amount that you would for a CD then your model is messed up. Selling something over the internet that is in a digital format should not cost the same as walking into your local Best Buy and buying a hard copy.

Of course I haven't really looked into a lot of the more recent online outlets so perhaps the price structure has changed.

When you buy a CD, very little of the cost is to cover the CD. You are buying the rights to listen to material on the CD.

This is where your argument falls apart.

This is why downloading software usually costs nearly as much as buying the CD at the store.

And where your argument falls apart is that you can only charge for something what people are willing to pay for it. Music is at this point nothing more than information, and with the advent of the internet, information has become very very cheap. So much so that music is largely worthless. If the RIAA intends to make money off of their music, they're gonna need to find an entirely different way of doing it. You can't artifically enforce controls on a free market, it just doesnt work.

-Max

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Modeps
Mathlete, it's spelled 'independent'... but as I pointed out before, there are a ton of studies that have been done. 1/2 show piracy hurts, 1/2 say piracy helps... I put little credence in any study released that's not almost unanimously accepted.

I think piracy helps when it comes to older people who don't really listen to the radio anymore. I doubt I would have bought a single CD in the last 3 years or so if it hadn't been for recommendations from friends and the availability of downloadable 'samples'.

 

[alien42]

online piracy will continue to flourish until the bloated record companies who care about money/profit and not quality music/art are bankrupt. only then will the very dirty music industy begin to shine again. independant artists with real talent will survive and make money off merchandise and live shows, the way it should be.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: BroeBo

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: Modeps
I hate the people who steal music because they force CD prices to climb ever higher, paying the artists nothing, because they're trying to protect their wallet.

They should be held to the same standards as every other company and individual in the United States and be sued individually, incurring the costs associated therewith.

FIXED

You don't know what your talking about. Show me that piracy has caused the price of CDs to go up.

Read the INDEPENDENT study

decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit

edit: spelling (thanks modeps)

Your equation looks incomplete. Let me finish it up for you.

decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit = increase in piracy

 

[Mathlete]

Originally posted by: Modeps
Mathlete, it's spelled 'independent'... but as I pointed out before, there are a ton of studies that have been done. 1/2 show piracy hurts, 1/2 say piracy helps... I put little credence in any study released that's not almost unanimously accepted.

On that note I will agree with you. Being a math teacher I know how statistics can be manipulated to say what you want them to.

My point is that it is rediculus to think that stealing music has not hurt the recording industry. I undeerstand that for the older crowd, the Internet is a place where you can preview music before you buy it. This in turn gets more bands out there and increases sales. The other end of the spectrum is that for the younger crowd this is a way for them do have eleventy billion songs on the HD and not have to pay for them. I think if they were forced to actually pay for the songs they may gain a little more respect for the music that they choose to purchase.

Now looking at the two arguments: the older people that use the music to see if they want to buy a CD(good) vs younger people that steal the music so they have a big collection. I think that there are a lot more people that are in the second class on the net than in the second class.

Besides that, it is wrong to steal anything from anyone, anywhere at anytime.

My $0.02

 

[Mathlete]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: BroeBo

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: Modeps
I hate the people who steal music because they force CD prices to climb ever higher, paying the artists nothing, because they're trying to protect their wallet.

They should be held to the same standards as every other company and individual in the United States and be sued individually, incurring the costs associated therewith.

FIXED

You don't know what your talking about. Show me that piracy has caused the price of CDs to go up.

Read the INDEPENDENT study

decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit

edit: spelling (thanks modeps)

Your equation looks incomplete. Let me finish it up for you.

decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit = increase in piracy

I could go for ever

decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit = increase in piracy = decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit = increase in piracy = decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit = increase in piracy = decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit = increase in piracy

where does it stop. The RIAA is trying to put an end to the cycle. Continuing to steal music does not.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: AmusedIt's OK to share, but not to distribute on a large scale. Making a copyrighted song available for DL to everyone on the web is illegal distribution.

Shades of gray. How many people can I share with until it's "large scale"?

1, 10, 100, 1,000,000?

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Mathlete
Besides that, it is wrong to steal anything from anyone, anywhere at anytime.

My $0.02

*takes $0.02*

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: AmusedIt's OK to share, but not to distribute on a large scale. Making a copyrighted song available for DL to everyone on the web is illegal distribution.

Shades of gray. How many people can I share with until it's "large scale"?

1, 10, 100, 1,000,000?

It's crap like this that killed the "reasonable speed for conditions" law in Montana.

Rather than use common sense, people have to have every little detail spelled out for them. It's crap like this that creates nanny-states.

 

[Scurvy]

One aspect of the internet piracy phenomenon that I find interesting is how Sony is taking part (by way of RIAA) in suing people for downloading MP3's, and at the same time they're selling buttloads of MP3 players. Hypocritical yes, profitable also yes.

Time-Warner is in the RIAA and the MPAA (i think), but theyre also in the broadband business.

kinda ironic, unless you consider the $$$. then it all makes sense.

i stopped downloading music about a year ago when these lawsuits started, but I still have the means - my wife uses a P2P client to download japanese TV programs. So unless they start cracking down on bootleg copies of japanese soap operas ....

 

[40Hands]

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: BroeBo

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: Modeps
I hate the people who steal music because they force CD prices to climb ever higher, paying the artists nothing, because they're trying to protect their wallet.

They should be held to the same standards as every other company and individual in the United States and be sued individually, incurring the costs associated therewith.

FIXED

You don't know what your talking about. Show me that piracy has caused the price of CDs to go up.

Read the INDEPENDENT study

decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit

edit: spelling (thanks modeps)

Read your own links conclusion.

We have analyzed the RIAA?s claim that music downloads are causing a substantial
decrease in music sales. Our macro data confirm their fear: we find that
music downloading could have caused a 20% reduction in music sales worldwide
between 1998-2002. While this is only a crude estimate, we believe that it is a
good reference value that other studies, especially microeconometric ones, could
use to assess the exact substitution that has taken place between CDs and MP3s.
Our analysis also reveals that other factors than music downloads on file-sharing
networks are likely to be responsible for the decline in music sales in 2003.

That sounds like some proof right there. :roll:

Another link.

 

[pclstyle]

i2 rules, man.

 

[GhettoPeanut]

not so much stealing from the band, if you wanna be fair tot he bands who's music you dl, send them 1 or 2 bucks for evey 15 songs of thiers you DL. most bands only make 70 to 90 cents per cd. the other 15+bucks goes to middle men. i stopped buying cd's after i learned about this from a VH1 behind the sceans with Googoo Dolls. not, don't relaly like them, but man oh man did they get scewed by the music industry.

 

[40Hands]

The RIAA is just postponing the inevitable. With the vast expansion of communications, they will eventually be obsolete. Just my thought.

 

[Mathlete]

Originally posted by: BroeBo

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: BroeBo

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: Modeps
I hate the people who steal music because they force CD prices to climb ever higher, paying the artists nothing, because they're trying to protect their wallet.

They should be held to the same standards as every other company and individual in the United States and be sued individually, incurring the costs associated therewith.

FIXED

You don't know what your talking about. Show me that piracy has caused the price of CDs to go up.

Read the INDEPENDENT study

decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit

edit: spelling (thanks modeps)

Read your own links conclusion.

We have analyzed the RIAA?s claim that music downloads are causing a substantial
decrease in music sales. Our macro data confirm their fear: we find that
music downloading could have caused a 20% reduction in music sales worldwide
between 1998-2002. While this is only a crude estimate, we believe that it is a
good reference value that other studies, especially microeconometric ones, could
use to assess the exact substitution that has taken place between CDs and MP3s.
Our analysis also reveals that other factors than music downloads on file-sharing
networks are likely to be responsible for the decline in music sales in 2003.

That sounds like some proof right there. :roll:

Another link.

If you rad my other posts you will see that I don't believe it is cut and dry issue.

I am curious why you didn't bold "good reference value" or "20% reduction in music sales" or just the word "likely".

I have an idea
1. Read my posts
2. Read the entire study
3. Read all of my posts
4. Don't just pick the words out that you want
5. Read my posts
6. Then comment
7. .....
8. Profit?

 

[FoBoT]

bunch of stinkin pirates

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: GhettoPeanut
not so much stealing from the band, if you wanna be fair tot he bands who's music you dl, send them 1 or 2 bucks for evey 15 songs of thiers you DL. most bands only make 70 to 90 cents per cd. the other 15+bucks goes to middle men. i stopped buying cd's after i learned about this from a VH1 behind the sceans with Googoo Dolls. not, don't relaly like them, but man oh man did they get scewed by the music industry.

70 cents per cd X 1 million CDs sold = Really good money for a year's work.

I'm sure any artist who you mail a couple george washingtons to is going to be more pissed that you didn't promote the sale of their album. Better album sales mean bigger and better contracts. "70 to 90 cents per cd" could easily become $1.50 to $2.00 per cd if the artist has monster sales.

 

[Mathlete]

To BroeBo

Your article is written by someone that is "an activist for open source and open standards, and an opponent of software patents". I am sure that article has no bias at all.

 

[40Hands]

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: BroeBo

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: BroeBo

Originally posted by: Mathlete

Originally posted by: Modeps
I hate the people who steal music because they force CD prices to climb ever higher, paying the artists nothing, because they're trying to protect their wallet.

They should be held to the same standards as every other company and individual in the United States and be sued individually, incurring the costs associated therewith.

FIXED

You don't know what your talking about. Show me that piracy has caused the price of CDs to go up.

Read the INDEPENDENT study

decreased sales = decreased profit = rasie prices to level profit

edit: spelling (thanks modeps)

Read your own links conclusion.

We have analyzed the RIAA?s claim that music downloads are causing a substantial
decrease in music sales. Our macro data confirm their fear: we find that
music downloading could have caused a 20% reduction in music sales worldwide
between 1998-2002. While this is only a crude estimate, we believe that it is a
good reference value that other studies, especially microeconometric ones, could
use to assess the exact substitution that has taken place between CDs and MP3s.
Our analysis also reveals that other factors than music downloads on file-sharing
networks are likely to be responsible for the decline in music sales in 2003.

That sounds like some proof right there. :roll:

Another link.

If you rad my other posts you will see that I don't believe it is cut and dry issue.

I am curious why you didn't bold "good reference value" or "20% reduction in music sales" or just the word "likely".

I have an idea
1. Read my posts
2. Read the entire study
3. Read all of my posts
4. Don't just pick the words out that you want
5. Read my posts
6. Then comment
7. .....
8. Profit?

1. I read all of your posts.
2. I dont care about your opinion.
3. I dont have time to read that entire study and its massive equasions.
4. The studys conclusion was enough to prove that they dont really have a clue anyways.
5. ...
6. Nice! I profited in 6 steps instead of 8

And you still have no proof of your statement above.

I hate the people who steal music because they force CD prices to climb ever higher, paying the artists nothing, because they're trying to protect their wallet.

That was all I was trying to show you.

Edit: Ever thought that if people cannot get a bands music for free then they wouldn't even bother buying the CD? That was the way it was for everyone I knew in the ol Napster days. But if you like a band and want to support them, buy their albums/merchandise. They make a hell of alot more if you go buy a t-shirt at their site then buying their album though.

 

[tfinch2]

I wish everyone that pirates music/movies/software would be punished. I reported a lab assistant here on campus a few weeks ago. She was watching a pirated movie while on duty, you could see the tag of the rippers or whatever in the letterbox. She was fired that week.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
I wish everyone that pirates music/movies/software would be punished. I reported a lab assistant here on campus a few weeks ago. She was watching a pirated movie while on duty, you could see the tag of the rippers or whatever in the letterbox. She was fired that week.

Wow, you suck if that's true.

 

[40Hands]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool

Originally posted by: tfinch2
I wish everyone that pirates music/movies/software would be punished. I reported a lab assistant here on campus a few weeks ago. She was watching a pirated movie while on duty, you could see the tag of the rippers or whatever in the letterbox. She was fired that week.

Wow, you suck.

Seriously. People like you need a bitch slapping or two.