RIAA at it again

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Sunbird

Golden Member
Jul 20, 2001
1,024
2
81
Maybe this will teach some Americans something, why do they have to suffer these things, why don't they just move to a country with no regards for intellectual property, then they can do copy infringement (note: not piracy, cause that's selling something thats copyright has been violated (and no sea involved), not stealing: since that the person still has their intact original material content in their possession aka theft) to their hearts content?

And hey, they will get to expand thier knowledge of the world and experience new cultures to boot!
 

Sunbird

Golden Member
Jul 20, 2001
1,024
2
81
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Anybody else think Goosemaster needs to back away from the computer and STFU?

Since when does one person's take on morality ring true for all?

Morality is a matter of perspective more than anything, and it is constantly up for debate. I agree, some arguments for morality are much clearer cut, and some are grayer (is murder moral vs. is jaywalking moral), but on the topic of file-sharing, I'd much rather debate how RIAA's actions will not stop (and only slightly slow) the growth of file-sharing.

Things are going to get much worse for RIAA as 1)broadband proliferates throughout the US, 2)new (more covert) methods of file sharing emerge, 3)globalizaton of the phenomenon will allow us to get free/cheap access to music from offshore sites (allofmp3 is a great example).

Some of you argue these lawsuits are necessary. I argue that RIAA already knows how pointless their legal efforts are in the long run, but they're out of options in trying to slow the growing number of traders.

I disagree. The lawsuits are meant as a deterrent. Once enough people know someone who has had to settle a lawsuit for several thousand dollars, people will be scared to share music for fear of a lawsuit. It became so popular because it was so easy to get away with. No one EVER got "caught." Maybe if they had started earlier, it wouldn't have gotten so big.

It seems like the RIAA can't do anything right with some people. They can't use copy protection, that punishes legitimate customers. They can't shut down the file sharing networks, people complain that the .0001% legal traffic warrants keeping them around. They can't file lawsuits and settle them for an order of magnitude LESS than they could win in court, that's heavy-handed. They can't use education campaigns, that's brainwashing. I'd love to know what WOULD be acceptable.

I don't know anyone who said that on here, they may advertise that copyright infringement is wrong as long as they have money to do it.

I don't think anyone could begrudge RIAA/MPAA that.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: Sunbird
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Anybody else think Goosemaster needs to back away from the computer and STFU?

Since when does one person's take on morality ring true for all?

Morality is a matter of perspective more than anything, and it is constantly up for debate. I agree, some arguments for morality are much clearer cut, and some are grayer (is murder moral vs. is jaywalking moral), but on the topic of file-sharing, I'd much rather debate how RIAA's actions will not stop (and only slightly slow) the growth of file-sharing.

Things are going to get much worse for RIAA as 1)broadband proliferates throughout the US, 2)new (more covert) methods of file sharing emerge, 3)globalizaton of the phenomenon will allow us to get free/cheap access to music from offshore sites (allofmp3 is a great example).

Some of you argue these lawsuits are necessary. I argue that RIAA already knows how pointless their legal efforts are in the long run, but they're out of options in trying to slow the growing number of traders.

I disagree. The lawsuits are meant as a deterrent. Once enough people know someone who has had to settle a lawsuit for several thousand dollars, people will be scared to share music for fear of a lawsuit. It became so popular because it was so easy to get away with. No one EVER got "caught." Maybe if they had started earlier, it wouldn't have gotten so big.

It seems like the RIAA can't do anything right with some people. They can't use copy protection, that punishes legitimate customers. They can't shut down the file sharing networks, people complain that the .0001% legal traffic warrants keeping them around. They can't file lawsuits and settle them for an order of magnitude LESS than they could win in court, that's heavy-handed. They can't use education campaigns, that's brainwashing. I'd love to know what WOULD be acceptable.

I don't know anyone who said that on here, they may advertise that copyright infringement is wrong as long as they have money to do it.

I don't think anyone could begrudge RIAA/MPAA that.

Ho many times have people critcized tehir "sharing music is wrong" commericals and campaigns?
 

Sunbird

Golden Member
Jul 20, 2001
1,024
2
81
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Originally posted by: Sunbird
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Anybody else think Goosemaster needs to back away from the computer and STFU?

Since when does one person's take on morality ring true for all?

Morality is a matter of perspective more than anything, and it is constantly up for debate. I agree, some arguments for morality are much clearer cut, and some are grayer (is murder moral vs. is jaywalking moral), but on the topic of file-sharing, I'd much rather debate how RIAA's actions will not stop (and only slightly slow) the growth of file-sharing.

Things are going to get much worse for RIAA as 1)broadband proliferates throughout the US, 2)new (more covert) methods of file sharing emerge, 3)globalizaton of the phenomenon will allow us to get free/cheap access to music from offshore sites (allofmp3 is a great example).

Some of you argue these lawsuits are necessary. I argue that RIAA already knows how pointless their legal efforts are in the long run, but they're out of options in trying to slow the growing number of traders.

I disagree. The lawsuits are meant as a deterrent. Once enough people know someone who has had to settle a lawsuit for several thousand dollars, people will be scared to share music for fear of a lawsuit. It became so popular because it was so easy to get away with. No one EVER got "caught." Maybe if they had started earlier, it wouldn't have gotten so big.

It seems like the RIAA can't do anything right with some people. They can't use copy protection, that punishes legitimate customers. They can't shut down the file sharing networks, people complain that the .0001% legal traffic warrants keeping them around. They can't file lawsuits and settle them for an order of magnitude LESS than they could win in court, that's heavy-handed. They can't use education campaigns, that's brainwashing. I'd love to know what WOULD be acceptable.

I don't know anyone who said that on here, they may advertise that copyright infringement is wrong as long as they have money to do it.

I don't think anyone could begrudge RIAA/MPAA that.

Ho many times have people critcized tehir "sharing music is wrong" commericals and campaigns?

Reply:
Well, those people are just hipocritic dumbasses, aren't they? (I hope you agree with me.)

They want the right to express their opinions about how "sharing music is wrong" campaigns are wrong, but the RIAA/MPAA can't pay and have their own opinions expressed as well?

Other thoughts:
Like I stated before, if you want to get music for free, or share it, go to your friends house and share the music hard drive to hard drive direct connection (RIAA can't track that!). Sure, it involves some effort, but you at least see your friends and can hang out with them, and have fun listening to the music together and such.

IF you don't have any friends, well then you got bigger problems than what we are talking about here.

 

cerebusPu

Diamond Member
May 27, 2000
4,008
0
0
someone on Internet2 was a snitch. only research institutions are suppose to have access to Internet2.

good thing i keep forgetting to install the i2hub client on my work computer.
 

PHiuR

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2001
9,539
2
76
these kids were clueless when some kids on my floor went upstairs and downstairs to find them. My whole floor found out and checked our IP's no match...but we knew it was in our building. so some kids went upstairs and found one of the kids not knowing that his IP was on the list. he diddnt know what to do. so he came to G4...
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: PHiuR
these kids were clueless when some kids on my floor went upstairs and downstairs to find them. My whole floor found out and checked our IP's no match...but we knew it was in our building. so some kids went upstairs and found one of the kids not knowing that his IP was on the list. he diddnt know what to do. so he came to G4...

G4?
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: Sunbird

I don't know anyone who said that on here, they may advertise that copyright infringement is wrong as long as they have money to do it.

I don't think anyone could begrudge RIAA/MPAA that.

I think people whined when the MPAA did this: http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:ro...orrent.com/+loki+torrent&hl=en&start=1

And I remember a while back the RIAA created an anti-piracy curriculum for junior high students, people got all pissed about that.

My point is though, there's not much that the RIAA and MPAA CAN do to combat piracy that won't piss people off. I don't envy their position. They create a product that is very easily duplicated, it's "expensive" when you consider only the cost to mass-produce it compared to selling price, and people don't have any issue with pirating it. The end result iis people love what they produce, but hate the organizations.
 

SinNisTeR

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
3,570
0
0
Originally posted by: RandomFool
RIT sent out an email about this a few weeks back saying that the RIAA contacted them and they wouldn't give out the info unless there was a court order or something. It was kinda scary, but It made me glad I moved off campus.

Piracy isn't going to stop no matter how many people they sue. I'm pretty sure the RIAA knows that and doesn't care. It's all about the money and trying to scare the normal person away from downloading. Hopefully someday they'll give up and go home.

Also, I'm almost positive that most people by now know it's wrong to download music, unless they've been living in a bubble without access to media. I still buy cds not as often because they're so damn expensive if prices were lower i'd buy more but they're not so i don't.


no kidding.. of the couple thousand lawsuits theyve had one was to a 12 year old girl and another to computer illeterate grandparents... sheesh.
 

Juno

Lifer
Jul 3, 2004
12,574
0
76
Originally posted by: RandomFool
RIT sent out an email about this a few weeks back saying that the RIAA contacted them and they wouldn't give out the info unless there was a court order or something. It was kinda scary, but It made me glad I moved off campus.

Piracy isn't going to stop no matter how many people they sue. I'm pretty sure the RIAA knows that and doesn't care. It's all about the money and trying to scare the normal person away from downloading. Hopefully someday they'll give up and go home.

Also, I'm almost positive that most people by now know it's wrong to download music, unless they've been living in a bubble without access to media. I still buy cds not as often because they're so damn expensive if prices were lower i'd buy more but they're not so i don't.

I live on campus and my ip address isn't listed. Thank god.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,395
1,585
126
As someone who used to copy music left and right in my younger days, I have to admit that now that I'm an adult I realize that I'm not entitled to the music. If it's not good enough to buy, I just don't get the CD.
 

Blazin Trav

Banned
Dec 14, 2004
2,571
0
0
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Oops! Maybe the RIAA will figure out sooner or later that people are going to continue to download regardless of how many people they file against. Maybe it's time to start blaming the current business model that causes the piracy instead of blaming the piracy...

You took the words right out of my mouth.
 

Proletariat

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2004
5,614
0
0
What exactly is the problem here? Some students were sued because they were sharing copyrighted material and somehow the RIAA is to blame for this?

Wow... pretty interesting sense of morality some people have, to say the least.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Oops! Maybe the RIAA will figure out sooner or later that people are going to continue to download regardless of how many people they file against. Maybe it's time to start blaming the current business model that causes the piracy instead of blaming the piracy...

They already sell single songs, and over the internet, too.

How else would they stop this? Give the music away?

That's about it. They'd have to give it away.

Music piracy is not about objections to business models. It is about a sense of entitlement and theft.

Yeah single bullsh!t lossy encoded files at $1 each. Now CDs have protection that infringes on my fair-use rights and also introduces errors into the data stream (and affects sound quality no matter what anyone says).

I used to spend around $600-$1000 a year on CDs, but I just stopped after they came out with the stupid CD protection bullsh!t. I don't steal to make up for it though, I just forgo new music altogether.

I don't condone stealing and it makes me sick to see people stealing especially from good artists. People just say "download it" like it's the obvious way to acquire music these days.

So in reality there are several issues on both sides of the fence that need to be addresed to sort out this situation. Maybe they should consider that the glory days of the music business are over and that prices need to be more in tune with reasonable costs. I don't see AT&T cry hoarse about how VOIP is killing them and how cable companies can offer phone service now. It sucks but at least these companies accept it.

The internet has changed many business models drastically and I think these idiots need to realize this for their own sake. They should keep prosecuting thieves though or even $8 CDs won't stop people from stealing.

If they offered lossless downloads, I'd be back into spending at least a couple of hundred dollars a year.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Oops! Maybe the RIAA will figure out sooner or later that people are going to continue to download regardless of how many people they file against. Maybe it's time to start blaming the current business model that causes the piracy instead of blaming the piracy...

They already sell single songs, and over the internet, too.

How else would they stop this? Give the music away?

That's about it. They'd have to give it away.

Music piracy is not about objections to business models. It is about a sense of entitlement and theft.

Nah, I disagree. When you're selling songs online for the same song/$ amount that you would for a CD then your model is messed up. Selling something over the internet that is in a digital format should not cost the same as walking into your local Best Buy and buying a hard copy.

Of course I haven't really looked into a lot of the more recent online outlets so perhaps the price structure has changed.

When you buy a CD, very little of the cost is to cover the CD. You are buying the rights to listen to material on the CD.

This is where your argument falls apart.

This is why downloading software usually costs nearly as much as buying the CD at the store.

So when you are buying a CD you are not paying for distribution/transportation costs? The cost of utilities at brick and mortar stores? Employees? Loss Prevention? Etc?

+ inventory costs and the associated interest which is pretty big. They even have the nerve to not offer a lossless option. I don't think stealing is the solution but I don't feel bad for them either.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Originally posted by: rocadelpunk
sucks for those kids.

lesson be learned, listen to indie music that isn't on riaa watch list ; P

They had the nerve to share 2,000 files on average so they were asking for it. I bet they hid behind the "safety" of internet2 being a new limited access research network. They probably didn't expect this to happen.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
Personally I stopped buying CD's 10 years ago (except for some additions to my pink floyd collection). When Napster was at it's peak I used it to try to find new music that I liked but I didn't keep any of the songs and I don't download anything anymore.

The best protest isn't to steal the music, it's to stop buying it and stop listening to the new stuff. Only if everyone protests with their wallets or congress forces mandatory licensing will the situation change and really those are the only morally and legally viable positions in this debate. There is no justification for theft.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: mugs
You know absolutely nothing about copyright law, so stop pretending you do.

Actually, within that statement lies the problem. There are no set guidelines for this sort of thing. Copyright laws are vague, at best. Some serious reform is needed.

They're not vagued. Corporations can do what they want at will just as designed.

I'm always amazed when I see the quality of your posts next to the "Elite Member" title.



What does "elite member" confer on someone other than the title of "nothing better to do than waste even more time neffing here than the average member"?

I've seen new members who contribute more and are more knowledgeable than some of the old-timers.
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Originally posted by: rahvin
Personally I stopped buying CD's 10 years ago (except for some additions to my pink floyd collection). When Napster was at it's peak I used it to try to find new music that I liked but I didn't keep any of the songs and I don't download anything anymore.

The best protest isn't to steal the music, it's to stop buying it and stop listening to the new stuff. Only if everyone protests with their wallets or congress forces mandatory licensing will the situation change and really those are the only morally and legally viable positions in this debate. There is no justification for theft.

I still buy old vinyl though, and I'm lovin' it!
 

sxr7171

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2002
5,079
40
91
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
As someone who used to copy music left and right in my younger days, I have to admit that now that I'm an adult I realize that I'm not entitled to the music. If it's not good enough to buy, I just don't get the CD.

Oh, I did some things in my younger days, but stopped when I got a job. The college kids today pretty much are more restricted than we were. I guess we got a little lucky in that we came in at the beginning. Still Napster at $15 a month is a easy and legal solution.
 
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