Richland & Kabini rumours

[MightyMalus]

Centauri, what brand of RAM are you using?

I find it weird that there are no 10-6800k reviews or much info out there. Considering that it should be out so soon.

 

[NTMBK]

Why should a tablet have more problems with that than any Notebook from the last 15 years? We're still only taling about 15W TDP afaik, that won't need big coolers or high air flow.

It's not the TDP, its the explanation of the docking station providing extra cooling power that puzzles me. I honestly can't see how a detachable system can do that well.

 

[Abwx]

It's not the TDP, its the explanation of the docking station providing extra cooling power that puzzles me. I honestly can't see how a detachable system can do that well.

If the tablet back panel has sufficently high thermal conductance
and that it has low enough thermal resistance coupling with the CPU
then all what is needed from the dock is to flow some air at the back
panel to get it cooled adequatly.

 

[Piroko]

It's not the TDP, its the explanation of the docking station providing extra cooling power that puzzles me. I honestly can't see how a detachable system can do that well.

A 40mm/60mm fan sucking in air from the bottom of the dock, an air exhaust with a soft rubber grommet on the dock next to the docking connectors, some ventilation slits on the bottom side of the tablet, a small heat sink (connected through one or two soldered heat pipes to the soc) with fairly shallow fins running through the case between pcb and battery presumably to the top with some slits there to vent the heated air. Would take some room from the battery, but really nothing special or expensive.

Just look at how cheap some cooling solutions in 35W Notebook designs are, you really don't need a lot of air stream to keep 15W of heat below a temperature delta of 40 Kelvin.

 

[shady28]

found some really nice slides about jaguar...

with nice i mean, some really high level stuffs...

http://pt.scribd.com/doc/126362330/ISSCC2013-Final-v5-pdf

IDC, please translate

edit:

Posts: 1,337

If true, that is pretty impressive. Smaller, double the cores, double the path to the FPU, more extensions supported, and various improvements resulting in higher IPC. Very nice.

 

[Centauri]

Centauri, what brand of RAM are you using?

Patriot Viper 3. The stuff is incredible too. It runs at 1.48v if I leave everything on auto and does it with timings of 11/11/11/25.

I don't think the Samsung 'magic RAM' can run any better at these speeds.

 

[monstercameron]

not quite kabini or richland but supposedly kaveri will use quad 32bit interface with gddr5 memory

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/5/amd-kaveri-unveiled-pc-architecture-gets-gddr5.aspx

 

[ShintaiDK]

not quite kabini or richland but supposedly kaveri will use quad 32bit interface with gddr5 memory

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/5/amd-kaveri-unveiled-pc-architecture-gets-gddr5.aspx

Thats very unlikely for 2 reasons. Price and memory that needs to be soldered on.

Looks to be one of the random nonsense followup rumours after console specs.

If anything, it will be DDR4. But thats still a bit too early.

 

[NTMBK]

not quite kabini or richland but supposedly kaveri will use quad 32bit interface with gddr5 memory

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/5/amd-kaveri-unveiled-pc-architecture-gets-gddr5.aspx

Interesting. I could see that being very useful for Steambox type gaming PCs- 8GB of GDDR5 soldered to the motherboard, with graphics provided by the APU. But as ShintaiDK points out, price is going to be a big issue.

 

[strata8]

Does anyone think AMD's naming scheme is a bit of a mess? Eg,

A6-6400 (Richland)
A6-1450 (Temash)
A6-5200 (Kabini)
A6-5350M (Richland)
A4-5300 (Trinity)

The progression from Llano (3xxxM) > Trinity (4xxxM) > Richland (5xxxM) made sense but why the hell are Jaguar chipsets being branded as A-Series? It's almost impossible to differentiate between the different generations and feature levels.

 

[NTMBK]

Does anyone think AMD's naming scheme is a bit of a mess? Eg,

A6-6400 (Richland)
A6-1450 (Temash)
A6-5200 (Kabini)
A6-5350M (Richland)
A4-5300 (Trinity)

The progression from Llano (3xxxM) > Trinity (4xxxM) > Richland (5xxxM) made sense but why the hell are Jaguar chipsets being branded as A-Series? It's almost impossible to differentiate between the different generations and feature levels.

You assume that the single module Trinity chips will be sticking around. It makes more sense for AMD to phase out the low end Trinity (with its large die) and replace it with a high end Kabini with a smaller die.

 

[strata8]

You assume that the single module Trinity chips will be sticking around. It makes more sense for AMD to phase out the low end Trinity (with its large die) and replace it with a high end Kabini with a smaller die.

Even with Trinity taken out of the picture the naming is still really confusing. Temash's numbering is completely arbitrary and the AX don't seem to refer to anything (performance levels?). Intel's naming isn't much better but I preferred the simplicity of E-350, C-60, etc.

 

[MightyMalus]

Patriot Viper 3. The stuff is incredible too. It runs at 1.48v if I leave everything on auto and does it with timings of 11/11/11/25. I don't think the Samsung 'magic RAM' can run any better at these speeds.

I'm about to buy these soon, G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB 2133 MHz at 9-11-10-28 timing.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231518

I don't know much about timings, are they good?better?worse?

Thanks

 

[redtruthseeker]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di..._Kaveri_APU_Supports_GDDR5_Memory_Report.html

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Kaveri-Laptop-APUs-Will-Support-GDDR5-Memory-334621.shtml

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Already-Ships-Kabini-Kaveri-APUs-to-Developers-334385.shtml

 

[Centauri]

I'm about to buy these soon, G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB 2133 MHz at 9-11-10-28 timing.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231518

I don't know much about timings, are they good?better?worse?

Thanks

Yeah, those timings on the whole are a little bit better than the Viper 3 timings, but they come at the expense of voltage; 1.65v is definitely at the higher and of the spectrum.

Here's the kit I got; http://www.amazon.com/Patriot-Memory...triot+Vipter+3

They also have AMP in addition to XMP, which is rare in my experience. I got my set for around $45 with a coupon from Newegg but the price has since gone up pretty much everywhere. Still a good deal though considering the low voltage.

 

[AtenRa]

AMD Temash scanned: SoC for tablets coming in the first half - hope for competitive gaming x86 Tablets

AMD would like tablets and convertibles including dock in 349-399 USD settle, the release is scheduled for the first half of 2013 - May and June we will be realistic.

If true, they going to sell like hot cakes.

 

[Abwx]

I hope they wont make the same mistake as Brazos when their
low pricing was simply absorbed by the OEMs as a welcomed
higher margin.....

 

[krumme]

I hope they wont make the same mistake as Brazos when their
low pricing was simply absorbed by the OEMs as a welcomed
higher margin.....

Well thats the result when you dont have the powerfull salesforce, and its the name of the game. And it will happen here too, because there is no product like temash, and the OEM will have better profit selling to the ones with the cash for a starter, than the low/middle end - thats classic marketing strategy.

But it will sell in huge numbers, but still be a low profit product for AMD non the less, compared to what fx. a good server cpu can generate.

But remember the bobcat have a good history and have proven to be a very good product for the OEM. They wont be surpriced by the success, and neither will AMD this time. There will be plenty available, and it will therefore hopefully not be supply constrained as bobcat was the first half year.

 

[Vesku]

Yes, biggest AMD weakness was not cultivating closer ties with at least a few big OEMs when they had the leverage to do so (late P3 - most if not all of P4 era). Frustrating that it's been so hard to find notebook options that really took advantage of lower end AMD APUs from a consumer perspective. Instead it was floods of Brazos 15.6inch units sold for just enough below the next tier to entice uninformed buyers.

 

[Abwx]

Spot on , we could add that Brazos cannibalized part of the Llano
market while Temash will adress a completely new , for AMD ,
segment but since pricing is what matters in the current trend
that is driven by emerging markets it s likely that the 15-25W
versions will be a serious contender for Trinity APUs , hence
they better price them accordingly , that is , not too lowish.

 

[krumme]

Well its kind of sad it shoud be like that. That a kabini 25w that have marginal production cost of aprox. 4-5 usd should be able to fight for its margin and profit, not beeing hindered because of obligations towards GF. The reality is, low end Richland/trinity and part of Intels core line makes not meaning for the consumer market, with a product like Kabini as an alternative.

At the end of the day, when AMD get tired of funding Richland, And Intel tired of funding pentium/celeron and all kinds of BS at retail, i think we will se tons of kabinis everywhere. 17 inch cheap laptops here we go. Kabini and cheap TN panels everywhere, paired with a cheap 5400rpm hd will be the show of h2 2013 and h1 2014.

 

[strata8]

Does the 25W Kabini still exist? It wasn't mentioned in the roadmap released in January.

I think Kabini has a chance of stealing share from the Sandy Bridge Pentium/Celeron parts, but it has no chance against the newer Ivy Bridge Pentiums. Luckily the costs of those are a lot higher and Kabini would use significantly less power.

 

[Abwx]

What is likely is on the cheap 2Ghz 25W quadcores for SFF
as E serie replacement and they would be usable on standard laptops.

As pointed by Krumme laptops are no more than a commodity
and it s likely that shrinking prices will be the trend this year
according to early previsions of a shrinking market as well.

AMD Kabini X4 5110 being the flagship would still feature a TDP of only 25W. There would also be models with 18W TDP.

​

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http://wccftech.com/amd-kabini-x4-5110-flagship-entrylevel-apu-launches-q2-2013/

 

[mrmt]

Well thats the result when you dont have the powerfull salesforce, and its the name of the game. And it will happen here too, because there is no product like temash, and the OEM will have better profit selling to the ones with the cash for a starter, than the low/middle end - thats classic marketing strategy. .

You are extrapolating a projection scenario from a very transitory situation. In 2014 Celeron Broadwell will have roughly the size of Kabini/Temash, and AMD will have to move Kabini production to GLF, plus 22nm Atom will be online with 14nm Atom in the end of the year. All those changes will improve Intel position while worsening AMD position, and significantly changing the rationale behind your AMD assessment.

 

[krumme]

You are extrapolating a projection scenario from a very transitory situation. In 2014 Celeron Broadwell will have roughly the size of Kabini/Temash, and AMD will have to move Kabini production to GLF, plus 22nm Atom will be online with 14nm Atom in the end of the year. All those changes will improve Intel position while worsening AMD position, and significantly changing the rationale behind your AMD assessment.

You explain the reason i wrote h2 2013 and h1 2014 - it takes time to get temash/kabini to market, and it takes time for Intel to get the 14nm Atom to market.

And its not about size,- but cost.
We will se how Atom is positioned power wise because thats the main competitor:

We know The AMD Hyderabad team putting together the IP for bobcat APU, and getting it ready for production, was aprox 80 men. The fixed cost is, by comparion to BD/Core next to nothing. We know the marginal production cost is in the order of 4-5usd. What this means is, that even when Intel will have a far superior product in broadwell, they can in no way compete on price. The job can only be done by Atom if Intel is going to pay for the Capex.

If the economy continues to be in a slump and perhaps be even worse, that could give AMD some comparative advantage here. Not that i can see where they are going to get their profit from on their total busimess.

How do we know AMD have to move Kabini to GF?