Richland & Kabini rumours

[ShintaiDK]

IMHO Designing an 4-core CPU with integrated graphics but no turbo would be downright idiotic in 2013, especially with a low power budget. Though it doesn't rule out the possibility, as we are dealing with AMD here after all

Hopefully they also have a shared power plane, so that the CPU can tap into the GPUs TDP when the latter is idle. As power delivery and distribution isn't just a core feature, there is a possibility that they didn't want to talk about it during Hot Chips. Anyways, hopefully we'll find out more at CES.

Atoms dont have turbo either (yet) do they? Or ARM chips?

 

[Homeles]

Does Atom have the infrastructure? It's 4 years old.

 

[Gideon]

Atoms dont have turbo either (yet) do they? Or ARM chips?

Atoms also don't have 4 cores yet. AFAIK ARM chips transistory budget is much smaller than even Bobcat's. Also ARM designers currently have very limited experience with it as of yet, unlike Intel and AMD, especially as AMD has another 28nm design in the works that DOES utilize a pretty decent turbo implementation (even when there is no improvement from Trinity).

 

[inf64]

Atoms dont have turbo either (yet) do they? Or ARM chips?

Yes but Brazos C-60 and C-70 have Turbo today . It's not a trivial Turbo at all, 33%(1Ghz/1.33Ghz).

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yes but Brazos C-60 and C-70 have Turbo today . It's not a trivial Turbo at all, 33%(1Ghz/1.33Ghz).

But look at the TDP.

ARM went for big/small cores instead of turbo. AMD and Intel might go for turbo tho. But since the slide doesnt mention turbo, I wouldnt bet on it. AMD have already been busy on slides to show the turbo name when it could.

 

[tweakboy]

I think what AMD needs is to hire one person. He is the guy who gives theirs chips their nicknames.

For example,, there's Bobcat and Jaguar

I think they need to fire this guy and hire a new nickname giver. If they do that maybe they can really compete with Intel ...

just a thought........

 

[Abwx]

P.S. Does anyone know on what process node it was designed in Hondo ? I doubt it's 40nm

40nm.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Atoms dont have turbo either (yet) do they? Or ARM chips?

in the HC presentation it is stated that the core supports all the hooks needed for turbo, but control of turbo is done at a soc level.

 

[CTho9305]

Hopefully they also have a shared power plane, so that the CPU can tap into the GPUs TDP when the latter is idle. As power delivery and distribution isn't just a core feature, there is a possibility that they didn't want to talk about it during Hot Chips. Anyways, hopefully we'll find out more at CES.

Shared power planes don't have much to do with turbo in the way you're thinking. The limiting factor is usually on the heat dissipation/battery life side rather than the power delivery side. In fact, sharing planes can actually reduce your opportunity for turbo. Consider an idle GPU and a loaded CPU. You can slow the clocks down in the GPU to save power, but you should also lower the voltage to save even more power. While the CPU is under load, you want to crank up the clock as high as you can, and to do that you really want to raise its voltage. If the CPU and GPU are on the same power plane, raising the CPU voltage means raising the (idle) GPU's voltage, increasing its leakage power and leaving less opportunity for the CPU.

But aren't there additional benefits from a first SoC design with on-chip south-bridge or FCH (Fusion Controller Hub) as they call it ? South-bridge power-draw should be quite significant, at least drawing from this article:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5937/amd-reveals-brazos-20-apus-and-fch


That's only idle power draw and it should be included in the Temash 3.x W TDP (unlike Hondo)


P.S. Does anyone know on what process node it was designed in Hondo ? I doubt it's 40nm

40nm.

I think he's asking about the chipset for Hondo, not the APU.

 

[Abwx]

I think he's asking about the chipset for Hondo, not the APU.

Current bobcat dedicated chipsets are 65nm , the Hondo one
being a cut down version to reduce its TDP to about 1W.

http://www.nordichardware.com/CPU-Chipset/amd-takes-aim-for-tablets-with-new-apu-hondo.html

 

[Gideon]

Current bobcat dedicated chipsets are 65nm , the Hondo one
being a cut down version to reduce its TDP to about 1W.

http://www.nordichardware.com/CPU-Chipset/amd-takes-aim-for-tablets-with-new-apu-hondo.html

Yes, that's exactly what i was asking for. Thanks

 

[IntelUser2000]

But aren't there additional benefits from a first SoC design with on-chip south-bridge or FCH (Fusion Controller Hub) as they call it ? South-bridge power-draw should be quite significant, at least drawing from this article:

Yes, but its just a generational improvement.

 

[Xpage]

AMD should have made a 32nm FCH mask and ordered $300M worth of FCH chips on 32nm for low power consumption for tablets or notebooks instead of just paying a charge. Those FCH's would be good for many many years.

 

[Abwx]

Yes, but its just a generational improvement.

If integrated the FCH will evolve from 65nm to 28nm , that s two
generational improvement in respect of TDP and eventual
enhancements allowed by a 5.3 theorical ratio reduction in die area...


An interessant slide about Jaguar s perfs/watt/frequency.

http://ht4u.net/news/26063_amd_enthuellt_neuen_low-power-prozessor_jaguar/

 

[AtenRa]

 

[pablo87]

AMD should have made a 32nm FCH mask and ordered $300M worth of FCH chips on 32nm for low power consumption for tablets or notebooks instead of just paying a charge. Those FCH's would be good for many many years.

Not a bad idea. Mine would be to build a boat load of gpu less Trinity masked as such (@$300MM, wag is 24MM die candidates) and sell 2MM per quarter at what the market will bare until they're all gone.

The fact they had no plan to deal with the eventuality means they aren't very savvy, or there is even more than the WSA to this Keiretsu relationship than meets the eye. Either way, they ought to have known better.

 

[pablo87]

If integrated the FCH will evolve from 65nm to 28nm , that s two
generational improvement in respect of TDP and eventual
enhancements allowed by a 5.3 theorical ratio reduction in die area...


An interessant slide about Jaguar s perfs/watt/frequency.

http://ht4u.net/news/26063_amd_enthuellt_neuen_low-power-prozessor_jaguar/

I'm not an expert but given the low TDP of GCN on 28mm, you'd think that ceteris paribus, clocking Temash to achieve the same performance as Hondo is going to yield substantial power savings.

 

[Abwx]

They claim 3.6W to 5.9W for Temash , the 5.9W being for a quad core.

A slide with the future CPUs TDP vs plateforms.

http://www.hardware.fr/tag_flux/597/temash.html

 

[Nemesis 1]

Yes but Brazos C-60 and C-70 have Turbo today . It's not a trivial Turbo at all, 33%(1Ghz/1.33Ghz).

This is a pretty good topic . I must complain . WHY ? OH! Why? Do Amd fanbois constantly Compare unreleased parts against intel parts . Atom is a five year old processor thats has been upgraded nothing more . I can,t get excited over these AMD chips they seem to little to late to me . But we shall all see in the next week or so . In the handheld martket I fully expect to see a revolution . Not from AMD /NV or Arm tho . From Intel with there 8 watt. haswells and these.



FROM TOM'S



A leaked roadmap image has potentially revealed Intel's next generation of tablet chips, which will lead to devices becoming faster and boasting higher memory capacity.

The quad-core Bay Trail-T processor is due for a release in 2014, which is said to be due for a reveal during CES 2013, as well as the unveiling of the Bay Trail-T-powered tablets manufacturers are working on.

The chip will launch in a SoC codenamed Valleyview-T. Although it'll be a few years late to the market, the chip will compete with Nvidia's Tegra 3 and Qualcomm's S4.

The Bay Trail-T utilizes a 22nm core process (unlike the existing Clover Trail chip), with Intel promising that it'll result in half the the power requirements, leading to 50 to 60 percent improvement in performance for tablets.

Intel's slides suggests users will be able to play over 11 hours of video from one charge. Other features the new chips would bring is higher memory capacity, better audio quality and superior graphics performance. The leaked roadmap also confirms the option to include cameras that has the ability to record 3D video

If amd thinks they can compete at those power levels they need to close their doors.

 

[Nemesis 1]

kabini is a soc. I have a devplatform and it's a one chip solution. I can't tell the specification, but the performance/watt is shocking. The igpu is amazingly fast.

go away !

"Go away" is not an appropriate response and you know it.
-ViRGE

 

[NTMBK]

go away !

How polite of you.

If amd thinks they can compete at those power levels they need to close their doors.

As that article and those slides show, Bay Trail T is due out in 2014, whereas Kabini/Temash are out this year. And Temash will have features to rival that already (much better GPU, four cores, out of order execution, improved performance).

 

[Nemesis 1]

How polite of you.



As that article and those slides show, Bay Trail T is due out in 2014, whereas Kabini/Temash are out this year. And Temash will have features to rival that already (much better GPU, four cores, out of order execution, improved performance).

Well unlike the rest of you . I recall AMDs last 6 years of lies after lies . Sure intel slips . But AMD never hits its pre launch targets ever! When the chips are released . We shall see . Intel been working on the OoO chip now for 5 years . It doesn't have to be the best performance Its doesn't have to be the most power effficientv . It has to hit the sweet spot That sweet spot is anything thats cheaper than Haswell while offering better performance than ARM and = efficiency. There is no room for AMD to late to the party I don't have a fab reality. The Chips your talking about from AMD are nothing compared to intels Atoms on 22nm . Thats my opinion . I don't care what you boys say . This is no differant than Than the HYPE befor the great BD arch was available for truth and reality.
I willl bet anyone that the phone version of this chip is out and being delivered to oem way befor 2014 . We should see the phones and of course tablets in 6 short days . It was last year that intel showed clovertrail phone cpus or saltwell what ever at CES.

Being polite has nothing to do with calling BS. Bs. Is BS polite? Aso where are you getting better GPU . The tablet version will use HD4000 graphics . intell at low power already bitch slaps trinity.. You guys are amasing this isn't about high power itys about low power and anything above 10 watts will be garbage. intel haswell steps in on the high end tablets here nothing from AMD compare to it . never will likely. If performance isn't what the buyer is after than efficiency would be the target . Intel wins here with atom . If its the sweet spot . It seems intel has that covered . 5 years ago I would never have believed AMD /Intel people debating low power chips

 

[inf64]

I'm yet to see a post from the above user that is logical/makes sense and is free from bashing(either AMD or AT forum members). That would be a day to remember .

On topic of temash,a bit older news piece bu still relevant:
AMD will show Temash-Based Prototypes at CES

Chief executive officer of Advanced Micro Devices said that the first prototypes of products based on code-named Temash ultra low-power accelerated processing units will be demonstrated around the consumer electronics show next year. Most likely, the demonstrations will be private and made only for partners as the chip will probably be officially launched later in the year.
“[We target] new form-factor clients, low-power clients, tablets. We will launch Temash [based around] Kabini next year, that is a good uptake and you will see some of them around CES time-frame,” said Rory Read, chief executive of AMD, at Credit Suisse Technology Conference, as xbitlabs reports today.

So we will see some sort of Temash demo in a week or so.I doubt any perf./power numbers will be given out though.

 

[NTMBK]

Well unlike the rest of you . I recall AMDs last 6 years of lies after lies . Sure intel slips . But AMD never hits its pre launch targets ever! When the chips are released . We shall see . Intel been working on the OoO chip now for 5 years . It doesn't have to be the best performance Its doesn't have to be the most power effficientv . It has to hit the sweet spot That sweet spot is anything thats cheaper than Haswell while offering better performance than ARM and = efficiency.

AMD hit its prelaunch targets on Bobcat pretty well, actually. Faster than Atom with better graphics than it, in a small, cheap to produce die- and it sold very well. Bodes well for the successor to Bobcat.

There is no room for AMD to late to the party I don't have a fab reality. The Chips your talking about from AMD are nothing compared to intels Atoms on 22nm . Thats my opinion . I don't care what you boys say . This is no differant than Than the HYPE befor the great BD arch was available for truth and reality.
I willl bet anyone that the phone version of this chip is out and being delivered to oem way befor 2014 . We should see the phones and of course tablets in 6 short days . It was last year that intel showed clovertrail phone cpus or saltwell what ever at CES.

The fact that you are bemoaning hype and then spewing a load of hype about 22nm Atom is just laughable. AMD have a good track record with their low power APUs (better than Intel do), and things are looking good for Jaguar. People are getting over-excited to a silly level in this thread (which I have complained about already in earlier posts), but you're getting even more worked up over even less information on 22nm Atom.

Intel's own internal roadmaps say 2014. All indications say 2014. The chip is not coming out before 2014.

Aso where are you getting better GPU . The tablet version will use HD4000 graphics . intell at low power already bitch slaps trinity..

I was talking about better graphics than the current Atom, not next gen. Bobcat already does that, and Jaguar will do even better. We've not heard nearly enough about either Jaguar or 22nm Atom's graphics parts to make a comparison of them- we know what they're both made up of (HD graphics EUs and GCN cores), but until we know how many of those units are used and how they're clocked we can't say. (We can say it won't be HD4000 level though- the leaked slide here clearly says 4 engines, a quarter of the 16 in HD4000. But again, we don't know the clocks.)

You guys are amasing this isn't about high power itys about low power and anything above 10 watts will be garbage. intel haswell steps in on the high end tablets here nothing from AMD compare to it . never will likely. If performance isn't what the buyer is after than efficiency would be the target . Intel wins here with atom . If its the sweet spot . It seems intel has that covered . $ years ago I would never have believed AMD /Intel people debating low power chips

Bobcat is better than Atom; Atom only became competitive again when they shrunk it to 32nm, and even now Bobcat beats it all over the shop on performance despite being on 40nm (though obviously with higher TDPs). This is not the Bulldozer fight, don't rule out AMD out of hand. It's going to be interesting, and I honestly can't predict which will be the better chip.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I'm yet to see a post from the above user that is logical/makes sense and is free from bashing(either AMD or AT forum members). That would be a day to remember .

On topic of temash,a bit older news piece bu still relevant:
AMD will show Temash-Based Prototypes at CES

So we will see some sort of Temash demo in a week or so.I doubt any perf./power numbers will be given out though.

Look I have watched your post every since conroy . No man has been more responsible for good people being banned because of your HYPE on AMD products . Every man woman and child here knows this . This is a good subject . But this constantly wanting to compare unreleased AMD products to existing Intel products is older than old . 6 days left . Lets see who shows their hand at CES. Brazo did fine against a 5 year old product from intel . Intel was committed to the orginal atom for 5 years we all know this also . Why I don't know but they did fulfill that oblagation to whom ever it was made . But now its a new product every year up to 14nm for sure. Intel says that the 14nm Atom will appear around the same time as broadwell . Unless intel has moved broadwell to 2015 . That means we will see 22nm atom and 14nm atom befor the end of 2014. So the Intel roadmaps are not saying this.