RIM death watch

[Joe1987]

Android's basic premise: Give everything away for free so Google can access, collect, and aggregate private demographic information, then, segment, market, and display ads.

BB's basic premise: Keep all information private and secure.

They just won't work together.

Then there's the fact that BB10 supports android apps. You can take an android .apk and convert it to a BB10 .bar, sideload it and run it. Developers can convert their android apps in about 20 minutes.

It's not currently perfect, but BB 10.2 will include an update to the android runtime which will make everything much easier and support more android features.

So with that being said, what else from android would you want?

It's not enough to bring your "A game" to the smartphone sector, you need a compelling reason for people to switch, BB has no such compelling reason.

"Pulling a RIM/BlackBerry" has become a pejorative term, everyone I know has switched from BB to Android/iOS, the Q10 is already being dumped on eBay for wholesale prices. NewEgg just blew out a bunch for $349 on eBay. No one is talking about the Q30, there's zero buzz outside of the CrackBerry forums.

TMobile just today pulled BB's from their B&M stores. Things are going to happen fast now, which carrier is going to dump them next?

Prem isn't objective on the subject, if he's stupid enough to blow billions down that gopher hole, people will just watch him damage his reputation, and the whole patents argument is moot, they're cross licensed to hell already to finance the company's cash burn rate, and likely all FRAND patents anyway.

A year from now, BB will be a footnote on Wikipedia.

 

[Imp]

Stock is sitting at US$ 7.88 as of 10 minutes-ish ago. Interdasting.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Stock is sitting at US$ 7.88 as of 10 minutes-ish ago. Interdasting.

Sounds like a value buy to me.

 

[Joe1987]

http://allthingsd.com/20130926/blackberry-manufacturing-partner-looking-to-bail/

Like I said, things are going to unravel pretty quickly now

 

[Imp]

Sounds like a value buy to me.

Latest rumors are that the deal isn't looking that solid hence the dip, something about the company only being worth $7, and the patents they hold aren't tested in court.

We'll see. Going to be an interest week -- quarterly report is tomorrow! It's usually scheduled after closing.

 

[Printer Bandit]

maybe pinkberry should acquire them and re-brand as blueberry.

 

[lothar]

Yup, this management team seems to have some egg on their face.

I wonder if things will come out similar to the Nokia CEO's conflict of interest. Thorsten stands to gain $55M personally with a sale of BB.

It's interesting how many company boards out there keep awarding these golden parachutes to their executives.

'tis a flesh wound!

They're not dead. They won't have 80% marketshare anytime soon, that's for sure, but they can turn it around and slowly chip away just as MS has done. Remember the Zune? WP7? Epic fails, they were dead, etc right?

Look, I'm not imagining a miraculous comeback from the ashes. I don't own any BB stock, and I gain nothing from them coming back. My wife has an iPhone, I've got a Z10.

I like the phone, and I honestly think BB has the ability to do some things that the other players don't right now. They've just been shit at executing since the Playbook. Fix the execution problems (big job), and they can leverage BES, QNX, their security, and their initial foray into consumer to come up with some new stuff.

Will they? With current management, nuh uh. With Prem at the helm? Maybe, and that's a big maybe.

WP8 has been able to increase market share only because both Symbian and Blackberry are losing market share. Microsoft didn't gain their WP8 market share at the expense of Android or iOS. WP7 might have been dead, but it was certainly more alive than Symbian which was already declared dead a long time ago during Elop's "burning platform" speech to Nokia employees.

Management(the RIM co-founders) was a problem in 2012 and were replaced by the current management(Thorsten) which is now a problem and needs to be replaced? Not sure I understand that...
Prem Watsa doesn't have any tech experience and I doubt he'll be able to hit a bullet with a bullet in finding someone that would magically turn the company's fortunes around which is why I think the company needs to be divided as I suggested here.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35529725&postcount=1272

 

[Crono]

maybe pinkberry should acquire them and re-brand as blueberry.

I'm in Boeing jets, Global Express
Out the country but the blueberry still connect

 

[lothar]

Android's basic premise: Give everything away for free so Google can access, collect, and aggregate private demographic information, then, segment, market, and display ads.

BB's basic premise: Keep all information private and secure.

They just won't work together.

Then there's the fact that BB10 supports android apps. You can take an android .apk and convert it to a BB10 .bar, sideload it and run it. Developers can convert their android apps in about 20 minutes.

It's not currently perfect, but BB 10.2 will include an update to the android runtime which will make everything much easier and support more android features.

So with that being said, what else from android would you want?

Not sure what you mean here, but Samsung has been winning government contracts without a problem even in the US DoD of all places...
I'm sure you've heard of Samsung Knox?
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/mobile/solution/security/samsung-knox

Either the US DoD don't care about privacy at all(very highly unlikely), or Samsung has solved all their privacy concerns on Android, or privacy concerns on Android are completely overblown.
Pick one.

 

[lothar]

Not sure if serious...WOW.

Dude, you are hilarious. Thanks for reminding me why the stock market thread is dead because of people like you who have to be know-it-alls and shove their self-righteous opinions down people's throats.

Let me clarify: my initial post was NEVER in response to you in the first place. It was to Silverpig and in regards to Prem being regularly compared to Warren Buffett. Since you can't read between the lines, let me be explicit about my original point:

I don't think Prem's at the same level as Warren, but even if he is, even Warren has been wrong before. Subsequently, Prem can be wrong too.

YOU took that as an opportunity to spew a few paragraphs about how Prem Watsa's trading stats are better than Warren's, and oh, how you had some success trading. Seriously???You took something NOT directed at you and so SIMPLE to go show off about how much smarter and better you are.

And more seriously, you took a RHETORICAL QUESTION (the "value investor" thing) to spew those few paragraphs about your hero Prem.

My response to YOU was a clarification of why I think that the use of Warren Buffet's name to support Prem isn't about his trading stats, but about telling people that Prem is as good as Warren, and Warren is generally regarded as the "Oracle of Omaha" who rarely screws up.

Then I went on to explain what I meant in detail... and, not sure if serious, you got BUTT-HURT and made it personal. Wow.... Thank goodness for ATOT. I forgot what children a bunch of 30+ year old adults can be. Some are even married and have children too.

Dude. Get out of the house some more.

You managed to take a two or three sentence observation and turn it into a multi-paragraph bullshit spewing fest about how smart you are. Congratulations. ATOT, everyone. ATOT. Actually, the internet, in general.

And I have nothing against Prem. He's a successful billionaire and sounds like a nice guy. I just think Warren's on a different level. But omy, I have a different opinion, I hope you don't get butt-hurt, lothar.

Your initial post wasn't a response to me, but your subsequent posts are so I gladly responded.

To you and lothar -- particularly him since he's a Fairfax investor and has done his research -- it does, but you guys, including others and those in the media, seem to be using it as some incredible defense in support of RIM/BB: "Prem Watsa's, buying, so BB must be a great company."

If this isn't something directed at me, then I don't know what it is...
If it wasn't directed at me, then what was the point in mentioning my name and lubbing it with "Silverpig, others, and those in the media" claiming that I'm using Prem Watsa's name as some incredible defense in support of RIMM/BlackBerry?

If you can't remember your own posts that you typed, then it sounds to me like you're the one that needs to get out of the house more.

 

[silverpig]

It's interesting how many company boards out there keep awarding these golden parachutes to their executives.

WP8 has been able to increase market share only because both Symbian and Blackberry are losing market share. Microsoft didn't gain their WP8 market share at the expense of Android or iOS. WP7 might have been dead, but it was certainly more alive than Symbian which was already declared dead a long time ago during Elop's "burning platform" speech to Nokia employees.

Management(the RIM co-founders) was a problem in 2012 and were replaced by the current management(Thorsten) which is now a problem and needs to be replaced? Not sure I understand that...
Prem Watsa doesn't have any tech experience and I doubt he'll be able to hit a bullet with a bullet in finding someone that would magically turn the company's fortunes around which is why I think the company needs to be divided as I suggested here.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=35529725&postcount=1272

You can fire a poor manager and hire another poor manager.

The RIM co-founders did a fantastic job with the company up until 2008. They made a good move in buying QNX, but their execution since then has been terrible.

Admittedly, they handed Thorsten a sinking ship, and Thorsten has only made it worse.

 

[sdifox]

You can fire a poor manager and hire another poor manager.

The RIM co-founders did a fantastic job with the company up until 2008. They made a good move in buying QNX, but their execution since then has been terrible.

Admittedly, they handed Thorsten a sinking ship, and Thorsten has only made it worse.

err, those two fucked up big time before the purchase of QNX... as in bucking the smartphone trends and believing they can set the trend when it is the consumer that sets trend.

 

[Imp]

Your initial post wasn't a response to me, but your subsequent posts are so I gladly responded.


If this isn't something directed at me, then I don't know what it is...
If it wasn't directed at me, then what was the point in mentioning my name and lubbing it with "Silverpig, others, and those in the media" claiming that I'm using Prem Watsa's name as some incredible defense in support of RIMM/BlackBerry?

If you can't remember your own posts that you typed, then it sounds to me like you're the one that needs to get out of the house more.

Fair enough.

To be honest, I didn't really read your posts in detail. Your "not sure if serious" statements came across as "you're an idiot", so I didn't give those posts, or the subsequent ones, much thought.

Where I did direct it to you ("To you and lothar -- particularly him since he's a Fairfax investor and has done his research -- it does"), I was responding to Silverpig asking what my point was. He said that both he and you shared an opinion on Prem, so I said, "to you and lothar.... it does".

Where I screwed -- yep, I screwed up -- up was not using a period before "but you guys" and separating you from the following statement about my original point. The rest of that post should have been entirely directed at Silverpig.

Whatever. I'm done. My original point was a whole 4 sentences long. I shouldn't have wasted my time trying to clarify something I pulled out of my ass in under 30 seconds in the middle of reading 5 other posts.

 

[Imp]

Back on topic: kaboom!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/blackberry-loses-965m-in-2nd-quarter-1.1870447

$952 million loss.

 

[Ns1]

yowza.

Bleak BlackBerry Q2 results highlight nearly $1 billion in unsold Z10 phones

 

[jpiniero]

I wonder if Fairfax will lower their offer. With the stock at $8, I guess Wall Street thinks they will.

 

[mammador]

One thing is that even in emerging and/or 3rd world markets, people are rejecting Blackberry haha.. Samsung and to a lesser extent Apple are kicking global arse, to Blackberry's expense.

If I were the Blackberry CEO, I would do the following to save my firm:

- Conduct thorough market research globally to find out what phone users want. Use this information to build a phone based on innovation. Hit Apple and Samsung at their own game.

- Make this new phone an Android model.

- Licence BBM to Android, iOS and Win phone. Pay Google, Apple and MS a fee for use.

 

[Imp]

One thing is that even in emerging and/or 3rd world markets, people are rejecting Blackberry haha.. Samsung and to a lesser extent Apple are kicking global arse, to Blackberry's expense.

Curious what the situation is in India. Last year, people were saying how big BB was in India and how it was supposed to save the country -- 1 billion population and all.

 

[Ns1]

Curious what the situation is in India. Last year, people were saying how big BB was in India and how it was supposed to save the country -- 1 billion population and all.

Samsung owns India. Samsung is to India what Apple is to USA.

Not sure what the market for dumbphones is like.

 

[Printer Bandit]

Samsung owns India. Samsung is to India what Apple is to USA.

Not sure what the market for dumbphones is like.

i thought nokia owned india?

 

[Ns1]

i thought nokia owned india?

Maybe the dumb phone sector but most certainly not the smartphones.

I saw dozens of samsung stores around Mumbai/Hyderabad. Didn't see any Microsoft/apple/Nokia stores!

 

[Joe1987]

Back on topic: kaboom!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/blackberry-loses-965m-in-2nd-quarter-1.1870447

$952 million loss.

But, but, BB is sitting on a ton of cash, they can afford to run t a loss for years, can't they?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Honestly, I don't think that a premiere technology company can really exist in Canada, so the failure of RIM/blackberry was inevitable. I think that a lot of Canadians were really biased in favor of the company and that heavily skews their view of it, but to the rest of the world, the company was pretty much on track towards certain death for a while.

 

[lothar]

Samsung owns India. Samsung is to India what Apple is to USA.

Not sure what the market for dumbphones is like.

Samsung wishes they do.
In India, it's the local Indian companies that own their own market and not Samsung, Apple, or BlackBerry.
Micromax, Karbonn, Lava, Maxx and Intex are king in India.

The same thing is happening with Coolpad, K-Touch, Xiaomi, Gionee and Oppo in China. Samsung and Apple are already losing market share to those homegrown companies.

 

[Eug]

Honestly, I don't think that a premiere technology company can really exist in Canada, so the failure of RIM/blackberry was inevitable. I think that a lot of Canadians were really biased in favor of the company and that heavily skews their view of it, but to the rest of the world, the company was pretty much on track towards certain death for a while.

Yes, Canadians were biased toward their own home-grown company, but that's besides the point. A big top tier tech company can exist in any decent sized 1st world country. RIMM didn't die because it was not in the US of A. It died because it was full of itself, and just refused to accept that anyone could knock them off their pedestal.

That's happened with a lot of companies.

Ironically, even as a Canadian, I was surprised they lasted anywhere near as long as they did, and I was surprised the stock went anywhere near as high as it did. I've always really disliked RIM's products, and disliked them even before the iPhone came out. They all seemed stodgy, corporate, and uninspired, including their later consumer-oriented products. Around the mid 2000s, I started telling people that investing in RIM probably wasn't a great idea, although truthfully it was mainly just because I didn't like their products, not because I really understood the stock... which is evidenced by the fact that RIMM stock started to spike after that, in the later 2000s, and stayed high until the big general market crash in 2008.

Speaking of Canadian tech companies, I did manage to make some decent money off ATI though. However, again, I'd be lying if I claimed I truly understood the stock. I just thought they'd do reasonably well and the stock would slowly climb. However, then I lucked out because AMD bought them and the stock jumped overnight. I sold immediately after the announcement.