News Roe v. Wade overturned

[Captante]

Who me??? Maybe I have someone on ignore and am not able to follow the conversation.

MANY people feel the need to "embellish" so they can feel "right".

Fetal "heartbeat" while different and far less complex then "heartbeat" in a fully developed fetus is 100% a "heartbeat" since it's ultimate purpose is to move blood, even if some folks would prefer that it wasn't in order to push an agenda.

To be clear I'm completely "pro-choice" but trying to say things like "first detectable heartbeat" in a fetus isn't actually made by a heart simply because it's not fully developed and doesn't sound like a classic heartbeat doesn't help anyones credibility.

 

[Pens1566]

It's not a heartbeat. When people think of hearts they think of the muscle that we have. The heartbeat sound does not even exist in a fetus at that age, It's just a loose group of electrical cells firing and the machine makes a fake heartbeat noise in sync with them.

If you can't understand how misleading that is then I don't know what to tell you.

This ^. First "detectable" heartbeat isn't even structurally there. It's only electrical impulses until like 10 weeks.

 

[ondma]

I agree, the question that the polls are not really answering is will this issue get people that don't normally vote out? It honestly does not look like it.

It is pretty much what I predicated would happen, and what I'm sure the GOP was counting on. People can only stay outraged for so long. Then they see a TikTok video of a cat driving a tractor or something and forget that they actually need to do something about what they were just outraged at. Instead they retweet memes on facebook about how outraged they are, feel good that they did something, and then having felt like they did their part they don't feel any need to vote when the times comes. All politicians are the same anyway, right? So it doesn't matter.

I still think the economy will be the number one issue. It simply will not fade away, like the outrage over abortion restrictions may be doing. You are reminded of it every time you fill up your gas tank, pay for groceries, or pay your rent. I live in MN and the entire democratic platform is basically attacking the Republicans in regards to abortion rights. I think this is a very dangerous strategy, but we will see.

 

[Captante]

This ^. First "detectable" heartbeat isn't even structurally there. It's only electrical impulses until like 10 weeks.

"Electrical impulses causing a muscle-contraction" are all a heartbeat ultimately is in any living thing.... claiming that they are not only serves to make "pro-choicers" look silly.

The only "meaningful" determining factor between a "baby" and a "cluster of cells/fetus" is it being viable outside the womb. (viable WITH medical assistance counts!)

 

[akenbennu]

I still think the economy will be the number one issue. It simply will not fade away, like the outrage over abortion restrictions may be doing. You are reminded of it every time you fill up your gas tank, pay for groceries, or pay your rent. I live in MN and the entire democratic platform is basically attacking the Republicans in regards to abortion rights. I think this is a very dangerous strategy, but we will see.

Inflation and the economy are non starters for Dems right now, even though most of it is widespread and out of their control. It's either abortion or Republicans are going to destroy our democracy to get voters to the polls.

 

[Captante]

Inflation and the economy are non starters for Dems right now, even though most of it is widespread and out of their control. It's either abortion or Republicans are going to destroy our democracy to get voters to the polls.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[SMOGZINN]

I still think the economy will be the number one issue. It simply will not fade away, like the outrage over abortion restrictions may be doing. You are reminded of it every time you fill up your gas tank, pay for groceries, or pay your rent. I live in MN and the entire democratic platform is basically attacking the Republicans in regards to abortion rights. I think this is a very dangerous strategy, but we will see.

I agree that the economy is going to be the number one issue, I just think it is dumb because neither side is offering any answers to that problem, so why is it a major factor?

Democrats are not talking about the economy because there is no real solution to it, at least not one they can easily put into a campaign ad, and Republicans are not offering any solutions either, so why would people vote based on a topic neither side has an answer for?

 

[Pens1566]

"Electrical impulses causing a muscle-contraction" are all a heartbeat ultimately is in any living thing.... claiming that they are not only serves to make "pro-choicers" look silly.

The only "meaningful" determining factor between a "baby" and a "cluster of cells/fetus" is it being viable outside the womb. (viable WITH medical assistance counts!)

No. A heartbeat is what can be heard from valves opening/closing. There are no valves. There are no chambers. It's not a heartbeat because there's no heart there to "beat".

 

[Captante]

I agree that the economy is going to be the number one issue, I just think it is dumb because neither side is offering any answers to that problem, so why is it a major factor?

Democrats are not talking about the economy because there is no real solution to it, at least not one they can easily put into a campaign ad, and Republicans are not offering any solutions either, so why would people vote based on a topic neither side has an answer for?

The flaw in your reasoning here is that you've assumed logical thinking matters when it's all about the "feels".

Over half the folks who vote regularly just don't care all that much about the right to abortion but ALL voters are getting clobbered by inflation.

What was that line from back when Reagan was running the first time?

"It's the economy stupid" fully applies AGAIN in 2022 and despite the fact that Democrats seem to be pretending they've done things that are effectively helping, it's pretty obvious they are not.

Whomever decided that because Dem's hands are tied on the economy we won't discuss it at all has made a serious error in strategy .... I think we're screwed.

No. A heartbeat is what can be heard from valves opening/closing. There are no valves. There are no chambers. It's not a heartbeat because there's no heart there to beat.

That would be the sound of a heartbeat .... the "beat" itself IS an electrical impulse even when the heart itself is not fully formed.

Besides having something physically identifiable as a "heart" is completely irrelevant to my point.

 

[Dave_5k]

That would be the sound of a heartbeat .... the "beat" itself IS an electrical impulse even when the heart itself is not fully formed.

Besides having something physically identifiable as a "heart" is completely irrelevant to my point.

By that definition, a computer has lots of heartbeats...

 

[Pohemi]

I agree that the economy is going to be the number one issue, I just think it is dumb because neither side is offering any answers to that problem, so why is it a major factor?

Democrats are not talking about the economy because there is no real solution to it, at least not one they can easily put into a campaign ad, and Republicans are not offering any solutions either, so why would people vote based on a topic neither side has an answer for?

This is logical, but many if not most voters aren't what I would consider "logical". And part of the issue is that Dems are being mum about it for the most part, while Repubs continue on beating their "but inflation" drums and blaming it on Democrats. Of course the 'fiscally conservative' aspect of the GOP hasn't been truthful in decades, but the notion still seems to be stuck on many people, and the rhetoric, Faux news, etc has only exacerbated it.

... Democrats seem to be pretending they've done things that are effectively helping, it's pretty obvious they are not.

Whomever decided that because Dem's hands are tied on the economy we won't discuss it at all has made a serious error in strategy .... I think we're screwed.

Hate to admit it, but I have to agree.

 

[Captante]

By that definition, a computer has lots of heartbeats...

Technically you're not wrong!

Of course no matter how much I'd like to imagine my gaming PC is potentially alive...

 

[Paratus]

"Electrical impulses causing a muscle-contraction" are all a heartbeat ultimately is in any living thing.... claiming that they are not only serves to make "pro-choicers" look silly.

The only "meaningful" determining factor between a "baby" and a "cluster of cells/fetus" is it being viable outside the womb. (viable WITH medical assistance counts!)

What in gods name does a heartbeat have to do with whether a fetus is a person?

 

[Captante]

Hate to admit it, but I have to agree.

Last poll I saw on this topic showed that a small majority of voters believe that the GOP is better at keeping the economy "pumping" and much as I despise those bastages and am 100% Democrat I'm not sure I disagree.

 

[Pohemi]

What in gods name does a heartbeat have to do with whether a fetus is a person?

I think, just that it's been a big "no-go" point for pro-lifers, that once there's a heartbeat, it's then a 'living person' whether it's viable or not. The flipside of the argument is that just because there's a detectable "heartbeat", there's not necessarily a heart yet.

 

[Captante]

What in gods name does a heartbeat have to do with whether a fetus is a person?

Read the 2ed half of my post slowly......

 

[hal2kilo]

Last poll I saw on this topic showed that a small majority of voters believe that the GOP is better at keeping the economy "pumping" and much as I despise those bastages and am 100% Democrat I'm not sure I disagree.

Sure, just more deficit spending, then things still get worse. Bring in the Dems to fix. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Captante]

Sure, just more deficit spending, then things still get worse. Bring in the Dems to fix. Rinse and repeat.

AND accelerate global-warming (among other bad things) in the process .... sadly I get it.



However just because I'm disgusted with our current political reality doesn't mean I'm in denial about it.

 

[Pohemi]

Last poll I saw on this topic showed that a small majority of voters believe that the GOP is better at keeping the economy "pumping" and much as I despise those bastages and am 100% Democrat I'm not sure I disagree.

Sure, just more deficit spending, then things still get worse. Bring in the Dems to fix. Rinse and repeat.

After Obama got the ACA going (and conservatives leaped on the expenditure for it), I think people forgot about how he was actually fixing the broken economy he took over, and the job that Clinton did, etc. Now Biden comes in and the economy was already going towards recession, global economy is shit atm, etc. and it's just more fuel for conservative pundits to use. Again.

So yeah. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Captante]

Problem is many voters have Goldfish-like attention spans.

 

[hal2kilo]

After Obama got the ACA going (and conservatives leaped on the expenditure for it), I think people forgot about how he was actually fixing the broken economy he took over, and the job that Clinton did, etc. Now Biden comes in and the economy was already going towards recession, global economy is shit atm, etc. and it's just more fuel for conservative pundits to use. Again.

So yeah. Rinse and repeat.

Trump created a 2 billion trillion dollar hole to give to the donor class, so yea.

 

[Dave_5k]

What in gods name does a heartbeat have to do with whether a fetus is a person?

The first phrase says it all... lots of self-righteous idiots somehow believe that represents God's true guidance, as revealed by his true prophets, the Republican party

 

[HomerJS]

What ever happened to the investigation into the Roe leak? Republicans and right wing media were all into the leak at one time.

Now I really want to know who leaked it.

 

[Captante]

What ever happened to the investigation into the Roe leak? Republicans and right wing media were all into the leak at one time.

Now I really want to know who leaked it.

Damage-control?

GOP can't have it getting out that it was one of their own maybe?

 

[ondma]

The flaw in your reasoning here is that you've assumed logical thinking matters when it's all about the "feels".

Over half the folks who vote regularly just don't care all that much about the right to abortion but ALL voters are getting clobbered by inflation.

What was that line from back when Reagan was running the first time?

"It's the economy stupid" fully applies AGAIN in 2022 and despite the fact that Democrats seem to be pretending they've done things that are effectively helping, it's pretty obvious they are not.

Whomever decided that because Dem's hands are tied on the economy we won't discuss it at all has made a serious error in strategy .... I think we're screwed.






That would be the sound of a heartbeat .... the "beat" itself IS an electrical impulse even when the heart itself is not fully formed.

Besides having something physically identifiable as a "heart" is completely irrelevant to my point.

Obviously each side is going to define "heartbeat" as it best fits their agenda. However, I think you are wrong here. By definition, how can you have a "heartbeat" without a heart? A heartbeat is the *result* of the electrical stimulation, not the impulse itself.

I agree with you about the economy though. To a lot of voters, it is simply enough to blame the Dems and want to get rid of them, whether or not the Reps have any solution. The Dems are vulnerable on the economy/inflation, law and order, and the border. A lot of the problems are not all their fault, and many solutions are being blocked by the Reps. But I wish they would just come out and address the problems and offer some kind of solution, instead of just saying in effect, "Yea but the Reps want to ban abortion".

It is much like a football team which is losing. The fans blame the starting QB and want to get rid of him and bring in the backup, even if the backup may not be a better solution.