News Roe v. Wade overturned

[Moonbeam]

I apologize for losing my cool and have unblocked you HOWEVER YOU came after ME for something that I don't in fact believe.


NOBODY has the right to dictate to a woman that they have a baby.

NOBODY. Is that clear enough for you to understand?


However I do feel that the father also has some rights.... are you arguing that the father has no rights whatsoever in relation to his kid? (Try not to be "triggered" and actually think that one through if you're capable)

I have two kids and I was part of nearly every major medical decision for most of both of my wife's terms .... apparently that should not have been the case?

Look, you told me to read the thread and I did, and I read your post too several times, but just because I read something does not mean I get what was intended. This has all been the result of this failure of my comprehension your first sentence here:

"Bottom line there are VERY FEW people on this mostly female-free forum that have any right at all to make these kind of decisions."

You were replying to no one in particular so it wasn't clear to me what kind of decisions "these kind of decisions" you were referring to. I can finally see that what you meant were decisions that only women can make regarding whether to abort or not rather than decisions about what the law should be. Following that up with a criticism of Republicans, "Of course that doesn't even slow down the "Great Americans" in the disgusting GOP." and then added ,"I support the right of fathers to have SOME input but fathers don't have to walk around with a baby in their guts for 9 months.", which sounded to me that while you generally disagree with them, you were willing to give them some say in a woman's choice. I did not see anything there to tell me you referred to a man's rights after he had become a father because, in my mind we were talking about a woman's rights to abort, not a father's right regarding a living child.

Sorry it took me so long to figure this out. Of course fathers of children have parental rights.

By the way I was going to say to cytg111 that you would be back, that I judge you too rational to stay mad very long, but I was afraid it would sound arrogant. To be honest, I can't tell you how pleased I am I was right.

 

[dphantom]

Are you capable of discussing any topic honestly?

i think so. are you?

 

[Moonbeam]

You don't really think these fascists will stop at leaving it at the state level?

Yup, what about hopeless don't they understand. What we need is a revolution, but who cares? I know a Polish joke that would never work here:

After waiting half the day in the queued up for butter and standing in line for meat, a Pollock turned to the people in line and said he was going home to get his gun to shoot the Polish leader. He was soon back in line and asked about his success he replied, "There was a queue."

 

[ivwshane]

so you agree people shouldnt be forced to do things they dont want to do, and if they want to have something done they should be allowed to. I said it twice, will say it again, i am pro-choice. What happens if a person in a state where it is legal, the doctor says its against his religious beliefs to perform it? Force him to do the procedure? I am not stating my view on it, i am asking a possible question of situation that can arise. I never claimed to have all the answers, i try and look at things from both angles.

Wtf are you talking about? Forcing a doctor to perform an abortion? Could you be any more clueless?

 

[ivwshane]

A lot of states that support abortion, will restrict a woman's right to abortion after the fetus becomes viable. A Abortion after the fetus is viable is only legal when necessary for the life or health of the mother.

I’m sure you think you are making a point but it has nothing to do with mine.

 

[Brovane]

I’m sure you think you are making a point but it has nothing to do with mine.

Pro tip: you aren’t pro choice if you think there should be restrictions. You support a woman’s choice up until a certain point, after that point you believe your opinion should override the woman’s and her doctor’s opinion.

I disagree that it doesn't have anything to do with your point. You can still be pro choice, but that right of choice isn't absolute. Even CA which is extremely liberal still places limits on abortion after a fetus is viable.

 

[theeedude]

Judging by how the Republicans would rather talk about the leaker than the crowning achievement that they chased after for 50 years, looks like they are now the dog that caught the bus politically. Which is fine, let them sit quietly while Democrats message to convert the undecided to pro choice.

 

[dawp]

Gov. DeSantis (R-FL) says the leaked Supreme Court draft opinion to overturn Roe v. Wade is a "judicial insurrection."

And I think it was really an attack on a lot of the justices. I think it was intentional thing to try to whip up a lot of the public to try to make it very political, potentially try to bully them into changing one of their positions. And that is not something that's appropriate for for the...

therecount.com

best line

He also claimed that he “believed in pro-life protections” and that it was not appropriate to carry out abortions after nine months into the pregnancy.

good, because that would actually be murder.

 

[kage69]

Team Treason addicted to outrage while nursing a victim complex, as usual.

 

[ivwshane]

I disagree that it doesn't have anything to do with your point. You can still be pro choice, but that right of choice isn't absolute. Even CA which is extremely liberal still places limits on abortion after a fetus is viable.

I’m not talking about what the law is. Laws are usually written to balance the needs of all parties involved.

Just like if you are truly pro life then you don’t support abortions for any reason (except maybe an already dead fetus), on the other side of the argument, if you are pro choice then you believe the woman has the right to bodily autonomy, anything short of that isn’t logically consistent.

That’s my opinion anyway. Of course most people aren’t logically consistent on emotional issues such as this.

 

[MrSquished]

As far as those saying Republicans are crying about the leak, everyone should be. It should be obvious, unless you have blinders on, that someone left leaning leaked this. Someone who disagrees with the majority rule of the Supreme Court. It's not whistleblowing, it was done for political reasons because the Democrats are/were in trouble for the midterms, and something needed to be done to get people riled up emotionally. Something to get them to overlook inflation, rising costs of everything. The leaked information just confirms what everyone already expected, yet so many act surprised. It wont get rid of abortion, it will leave it up to the states, dont like what it will be in your state, you can move. If you want it to be more restrictive move to a more red state, if you want it to be more lax, more choice, move to a blue state. pretty simple. More people will have their views expressed than one blanket law for the entire nation, now you will be able to have 50 different laws on abortion and you can choose wich one to live under.

You are a piece of shit person. I hope you suffer because you are fine with other people suffering. You fucking suck as a human being.

 

[Indus]

Judging by how the Republicans would rather talk about the leaker than the crowning achievement that they chased after for 50 years, looks like they are now the dog that caught the bus politically. Which is fine, let them sit quietly while Democrats message to convert the undecided to pro choice.

I think you are being quite naive here. The midterm and 2024 climate looks very good for the GOP and the last 30 years and especially 2020 proved people care more about owning the libs than abortions.

Then you have voter suppression and top of that red state legislatures can overturn votes now thanks to repeating of the big lie.

Would not be surprised with a gop trifecta for a few years starting in 24.

After all people will blame Biden for inability to make their life better just like Carter.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

So... I deliberately stayed away from P&N today cause I figured it would be a shit show in here.

You guys did not disappoint.

Just some things I've picked up today:

-Lot of "media adjacent" bullshittery going on. Liberal news sources are talking more about the effects of the decision, while conservative news sources seem to be focusing on the "leak".

-Regarding the "leak": is it even illegal? Like are there any laws making supreme court majority opinion drafts private/confidential/secret? Were any actual laws violated? Or is it just tradition that everyone is butthurt about? Why is the level of secrecy around Supreme court decisions considered OK at all?

-Regarding Abortion (there is just too much to say, so I'll say what comes to mind): this is really gonna suck for red-state folks. I actually hope more red states pass "bounty" laws against abortion if that brings the pain up and out of just the poor and disenfranchised groups up to the privileged class that has the means to leave the state on an abortion vacation. Only way to wake people up is if it hurts everyone equally.

Good reminder that progress is not an arrow always pointing forward. Every right Americans have can be taken away at whim (then are they really rights, or are they privileges as Carlin might say?).

There is definitely a bit of schadenfreude if conservative white women find themselves unable to access that abortion they thought they would never need for themselves. Sometimes I think this group forgets that black men got the right to vote 50 years before they did, just as a reminder for where they are on the old boys club totem pole.

I'll post more as I think and absorb and reflect more on things. I will say though: thank God I was born a man.

 

[theeedude]

I think you are being quite naive here. The midterm and 2024 climate looks very good for the GOP and the last 30 years and especially 2020 proved people care more about owning the libs than abortions.

Then you have voter suppression and top of that red state legislatures can overturn votes now thanks to repeating of the big lie.

Would not be surprised with a gop trifecta for a few years starting in 24.

After all people will blame Biden for inability to make their life better just like Carter.

Maybe, but as it relates to this one particular issue, it's gone from an issue that turns out the GOP base to an issue that turns out the Democrat base. Whether it will be enough to stop the US from descending into fascism is an open question. I think urban liberals arming themselves would be far more effective deterrent to that.

 

[Braznor]

If this is true, its a very bad decision on part of the conservative leaning judges. Screw them. It is unthinkable that women's rights in this day and age can take such a regressive turn in the United States.

 

[sportage]

Fox is focusing on the leak because down deep they hope it isn't true. Does Fox actually believe only liberals support a woman's right to choose?

 

[cytg111]

As far as those saying Republicans are crying about the leak, everyone should be. It should be obvious, unless you have blinders on, that someone left leaning leaked this. Someone who disagrees with the majority rule of the Supreme Court. It's not whistleblowing, it was done for political reasons because the Democrats are/were in trouble for the midterms, and something needed to be done to get people riled up emotionally. Something to get them to overlook inflation, rising costs of everything. The leaked information just confirms what everyone already expected, yet so many act surprised. It wont get rid of abortion, it will leave it up to the states, dont like what it will be in your state, you can move. If you want it to be more restrictive move to a more red state, if you want it to be more lax, more choice, move to a blue state. pretty simple. More people will have their views expressed than one blanket law for the entire nation, now you will be able to have 50 different laws on abortion and you can choose wich one to live under.

And since 80% of the American population is pro choice, your assertion is that 80% of the American population is leaning left?
In terms of actual policy, 80% is leaning left and the in-between conservative voters is GQP interference obfuscation and information distortion victims?

You know. I think you're right.

 

[sportage]

Not to go off topic but....
Maybe it is time to revisit that civil war idea thing, again.
It's obvious that the two sides, the Trumps vs everyone else, will ever find common ground.
And with this potential ruling from this Trump supreme court, hold onto your hats for what is to come next.
Progressives had better start dividing up those states, and the country, and decide which side gets which states because.... nothing short of a civil war is coming.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

There is definitely a bit of schadenfreude if conservative white women find themselves unable to access that abortion they thought they would never need for themselves. Sometimes I think this group forgets that black men got the right to vote 50 years before they did, just as a reminder for where they are on the old boys club totem pole.

Remember, it'll never actually happen to the 45+ female voters, it'll happen to their kids/grandkids (who likely aren't voting yet). 'It doesn't affect me' is a primary principal of conservative ideology and lawmaking.

 

[pmv]

So if someone lived in Miami, where are they going to get an Abortion? Maryland? Maybe Virginia? That's a days drive each way, plus the procedure.

Illustrative infographic on this page, about that question

‘It will be chaos’: 26 states in US will ban abortion if supreme court ruling stands

Regulation would be returned to states where lawmakers in the south and midwest have enacted bans in anticipation of decision

www.theguardian.com

 

[dphantom]

quite interesting how gender becomes strongly binary again when it comes to abortion. almost as if.....

 

[dank69]

If this is true, its a very bad decision on part of the conservative leaning judges. Screw them. It is unthinkable that women's rights in this day and age can take such a regressive turn in the United States.

Yeah, unthinkable. It's not like the first litmus test to becoming and staying a Republican representative is proving you are anti-abortion. And it's not like the GOP can win full control with way less than 50% of the vote.

All the snowflake liberals predicting this would happen if we didn't vote straight Demoract for the last 40 years sound like a bunch of crazies as usual. I know because my grandfather told me liberals were the source of all the problems in the world, and he was old so that means we have to respect his smartness.

 

[K1052]

Always read Serwer. Few people in media are so clear eyed about the conservative legal movement and the court.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1521590162135949314

Aside from rights specifically mentioned in the text of the Constitution, Alito argues, only those rights “deeply rooted in the nation’s history in tradition” deserve its protections. This is as arbitrary as it is lawless. Alito is saying there is no freedom from state coercion that conservatives cannot strip away if conservatives find that freedom personally distasteful. The rights of heterosexual married couples to obtain contraception, or of LGBTQ people to be free from discrimination, are obvious targets. But other rights that Americans now take for granted could easily be excluded by this capricious reasoning.

An entire industry of commentators has tied its legitimacy to the Court, and they will obfuscate, semanticize, and quibble. These figures have long forestalled any backlash to the Court’s right-wing radicalism by muddying the waters about the significance of an appointment, a decision, a precedent. They have lied to the public, so that it does not realize what is being taken from it. In response to this decision, they will insist that the unprecedented leak is more important than the world the draft threatens to create. It is not.

Similarly, in his opinion, Alito writes that “we emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right,” and that “nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion.” Give this statement the same weight that should have been given to Alito’s scolding of the press shortly after the Court’s shadow-docket decision on the Texas abortion ban, and his insistence that it had no bearing on Roe and did not nullify the right to an abortion in Texas. Alito’s word means absolutely nothing.

“This is total gaslighting; he knows as well as anyone that these other rights are like Roe, rooted in the right to privacy. If Roe is imperiled because it is unenumerated and not ‘rooted in our history and tradition,’ then these other rights are also subject to challenge,” Melissa Murray, a law professor at NYU, said of Alito’s disclaimer. “Conservative lawyers are going to eat this up like catnip, and of course they are going to challenge these other precedents.”

 

[pmv]

So what's next on the agenda for your gang of gerontocrat overlords? Banning gay marriage? Homosexual activity itself? Maybe the legality of inter-racial marriage will be left to the states? How about bringing back slavery?

 

[ch33zw1z]

So what's next on the agenda for your gang of gerontocrat overlords? Banning gay marriage? Homosexual activity itself? Maybe the legality of inter-racial marriage will be left to the states? How about bringing back slavery?

kicking down you door if you’re having sex in ways or reasons other than missionary to procreate.

drink it in America, your time has come