News Roe v. Wade overturned

[Captante]

I always assume moonie is playing some angle setting up a trap with these things however right here I agree with him. You as the doner of course have a voice, it just doesnt weigh anything… lets get facts straight you’re not an involved father cause you’re not a father yet. Its 100% the woman’s provocative to keep it or not, men should have NO legal standing on the issue at all.
After the fact? Hell yea, men needs more rights, I understand its even worse over there but man the planet is stuck in the past in terms of men and their rights in fatherhood.

EXCEPT I completely agree with pretty much everything you wrote IF you read my posts... THAT was my point.

Moonbeam is fighting with himself!

 

[nakedfrog]

ah, so it depends

Are you capable of discussing any topic honestly?

 

[Moonbeam]

The people who disrespect you on a regular basis are spot-on.... you really are an id10t.

Post whatever mindless drivel pops into that empty head of yours I won't be reading it.

No need to fall apart just because you are mistaken. Getting triggered should tell you something is wrong. You act like a conservative but then you did present a rather conservative position. I would be happy to entertain any argument you could logically enumerate that would suggest men have rights regarding women's abortion decisions. Nobody has any such right but the woman. Sorry I had to be the one to let you know.

 

[eelw]

The ONLY thing I feel bad about is sticking up for Moonbeam on here in the past at times... I was completely off base and he/she IS nothing but a crackpot.

Nah he’s trying to be a fortune cookie

 

[gothuevos]

@all replies

Let's take stock of the overall electoral success of the Democratic party to judge if they have truly been effective with their strategies and positions.

Federal:
Currently control US house by 17 seats, and Senate is 50-50.
-Razor thin margins headed into a tough midterm season. Highly probable they will lose control of one or both.

WH:
Won 7 of last 8 popular votes, only won 5 terms.

Which led to...

SC:
As said, conservatives hold 6-3,
3 conservatives are in their 50s.
Thomas and Alito are 73 and 71 respectively

Retirement age has trended over 80yrs old.

Conservatives have the court locked for at least the next 10-15yrs.

State level:
2022
Senates:
R control: 32
D control: 18

Houses:
R control: 30
D control: 18

Don't have a handy graph to show the history, but Rs control legislatures at nearly a 2:1 ratio, and they've been blunted much of the decade due to losing control of the redistricting process in most states, and have not figured out a good counter.

Now the Rs are working at controlling the local school boards and going hyper local. Again, another area of surprise attack that caught Ds sleeping.

The but but Hillary is just one instance. Ds have been continuously outplayed at every level. Really the only advantage they have is POTUS, and to marginal effect.

They have been on a continuous decline since at least 1994, if not the 70s.

I can't see how anyone can look at this track record of failure and not call for a complete overhaul of the party.

Bravo laying this all out. You also forgot governor's mansions, which GOP has an advantage in.

And this is nothing to say of the GOP's soon to be advantage in state secretaries and election laws that allow them to simply toss results they don't like.

This is what GG looks like, for a generation or two.

"Dems in Disarray" wasn't just a meme.

 

[fskimospy]

@all replies

Let's take stock of the overall electoral success of the Democratic party to judge if they have truly been effective with their strategies and positions.

Federal:
Currently control US house by 17 seats, and Senate is 50-50.
-Razor thin margins headed into a tough midterm season. Highly probable they will lose control of one or both.

WH:
Won 7 of last 8 popular votes, only won 5 terms.

Which led to...

SC:
As said, conservatives hold 6-3,
3 conservatives are in their 50s.
Thomas and Alito are 73 and 71 respectively

Retirement age has trended over 80yrs old.

Conservatives have the court locked for at least the next 10-15yrs.

State level:
2022
Senates:
R control: 32
D control: 18

Houses:
R control: 30
D control: 18

Don't have a handy graph to show the history, but Rs control legislatures at nearly a 2:1 ratio, and they've been blunted much of the decade due to losing control of the redistricting process in most states, and have not figured out a good counter.

Now the Rs are working at controlling the local school boards and going hyper local. Again, another area of surprise attack that caught Ds sleeping.

The but but Hillary is just one instance. Ds have been continuously outplayed at every level. Really the only advantage they have is POTUS, and to marginal effect.

They have been on a continuous decline since at least 1994, if not the 70s.

I can't see how anyone can look at this track record of failure and not call for a complete overhaul of the party.

Do you feel that if the republicans controlled all elected bodies of the federal government you would describe it the same way?

 

[dank69]

So that's a yes, they were the largest nexus of power in the party. All the loyalists who owed their political careers to the former president, senator, first lady and secretary of state... all the backers and donor networks, all the other candidates that didn't run in deference to challenging the Clintons.

Sanders was an outsider, yes, but more importantly, Obama never built an organizational structure to rival the Clinton center of power.

He left, there was no bench to backfill.

Really, the alternative is what, we organically had a primary where the 2016 candidate were: Hilary again, an aging quixotic socialist not part actually a member of the party, and some random white guy no one remembers and no one voted for.

That's it.

No one else.

Not one inspiring politico dared jump into the race.

The masses cried out for Hillary and all others were scared away?

But everyone and their grandma ran in 2020 after the Clinton machine lost, yet again, and there was no heir apparent.

Or, in 2016 everyone recognized that Clinton was extremely qualified to be president so why bother even challenging her?

 

[Moonbeam]

I always assume moonie is playing some angle setting up a trap with these things however right here I agree with him. You as the doner of course have a voice, it just doesnt weigh anything… lets get facts straight you’re not an involved father cause you’re not a father yet. Its 100% the woman’s provocative to keep it or not, men should have NO legal standing on the issue at all.
After the fact? Hell yea, men needs more rights, I understand its even worse over there but man the planet is stuck in the past in terms of men and their rights in fatherhood.

Look, I am perfectly aware that I come from a different place than most who post here. I can't help but do so. I know the price I paid for what I believe. Not everybody will have been forced into a corner like I was and will resist being so. I opened Pandora's Box. I think you agree because you have confronted the fact that there is an unconscious and deep-grained bias in our culture favoring the opinions of men over women.

Anyway, I don't see how he can say he favors men having 'some say' and then say his point was my point and the one you are making here. Too bad he won't specifically define what he means by "some say".

Fair weather friends................... I will back you up when I believe you are right and argue with you if I think you are wrong hoping to curry no personal favor from any such agreement and expecting no gratitude for it. I will not be telling you I was sorry to have backed you up at some future date when I think you are wrong, regretting my past support. How can we think clearly if we are attached to our opinions and support them from any other point of view than that we believe them to be right. I will be doing the same with him.

 

[Moonbeam]

Or, in 2016 everyone recognized that Clinton was extremely qualified to be president so why bother even challenging her?

I would only say that extremely qualified and campaigned on the right message are two different things. But the state of the party today strikes me as more of the same. The majority of Democrats still believe in the wrong message. So my opinion is that right message or wrong, Democrats can't win. The party can only nominate candidates that will lose, if not immediately, then at the next election because they will not do what is required for real change.

The US can't progress because the American people are against it. We have what we deserve. We don't want to see we are hopeless. To feel hopeless is to be without hope. To realize the hopelessness of ones condition is the first requirement for hope. One leads to resignation and useless denial while the other leads to humility and surrender and the awakening of being.

 

[Captante]

Look, I am perfectly aware that I come from a different place than most who post here. I can't help but do so. I know the price I paid for what I believe. Not everybody will have been forced into a corner like I was and will resist being so. I opened Pandora's Box. I think you agree because you have confronted the fact that there is an unconscious and deep-grained bias in our culture favoring the opinions of men over women.

Anyway, I don't see how he can say he favors men having 'some say' and then say his point was my point and the one you are making here. Too bad he won't specifically define what he means by "some say".

Fair weather friends................... I will back you up when I believe you are right and argue with you if I think you are wrong hoping to curry no personal favor from any such agreement and expecting no gratitude for it. I will not be telling you I was sorry to have backed you up at some future date when I think you are wrong, regretting my past support. How can we think clearly if we are attached to our opinions and support them from any other point of view than that we believe them to be right. I will be doing the same with him.

I apologize for losing my cool and have unblocked you HOWEVER YOU came after ME for something that I don't in fact believe.


NOBODY has the right to dictate to a woman that they have a baby.

NOBODY. Is that clear enough for you to understand?


However I do feel that the father also has some rights.... are you arguing that the father has no rights whatsoever in relation to his kid? (Try not to be "triggered" and actually think that one through if you're capable)

I have two kids and I was part of nearly every major medical decision for most of both of my wife's terms .... apparently that should not have been the case?

 

[Zorba]

looking at a political map of the US, most someone would have to cross is two states if they lived in a red state. i was simply using the example of being able to drive half way across the US in a day. Most Trump supporters cant read i guess.

So if someone lived in Miami, where are they going to get an Abortion? Maryland? Maybe Virginia? That's a days drive each way, plus the procedure.

 

[Captante]

So if someone lived in Miami, where are they going to get an Abortion? Maryland? Maybe Virginia? That's a days drive each way, plus the procedure.

Cuba? (It's legal and available!)

Women's rights are literally better protected there then in Flori-duh!

 

[Indus]

If any justices change their mind.. the conservaterrorists will kill them.

So who wants to volunteer to be a tribute to the 2nd amendment amongst the justices?

Probably nobody.

 

[gothuevos]

So if someone lived in Miami, where are they going to get an Abortion? Maryland? Maybe Virginia? That's a days drive each way, plus the procedure.

I know this isn't a great answer, but there undoubtedly be charities that pop up to support this kind of thing.

 

[K1052]

I expect a substantial market for mifepristone and misoprostol to develop in Mexico to serve the coming US demand. Actually ending most abortion isn't like the 70s where closing the clinics made it a lot harder/riskier.

 

[theeedude]

You can fight over candidates in primaries, but have to turn out and vote party line Democrat in every election if you want to restore reproductive (and voting) rights in America. Now, you might say, why not vote for a Republican mayor, it doesn't matter? Well, it does, because then Democrats will have to spend more money on mayoral races than electing politicians in state legislatures, Congress, and the presidency.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I know this isn't a great answer, but there undoubtedly be charities that pop up to support this kind of thing.

there shouldn't have to be though. it shouldn't take a monumental effort to receive healthcare.

 

[Moonbeam]

Fuck authoritarians. Line every fucking one up in front of a firing squad. I'm pretty goddamned sick of it.

Oh, I would agree but I fear it would be the authoritarian in me doing the talking.

 

[Captante]

No need to fall apart just because you are mistaken.

Again the only person who said I thought that even the father could dictate to a woman about having a child was you... I never said that and in fact I've said exactly the opposite several times now.

You jumped right in and attacked without understanding.... which IS the P&N way I suppose. Funny that you believe you're unique.

 

[sportage]

Don't know how the abortion battle will turn out. A potential ruling "could have" been intentionally leaked just to see how the country would react, and if all hell broke out then the ruling draft "could still be" changed.
But, I thoroughly enjoy the battle and the outrage because it takes battle and outrage from the people for things to happen. It gets people's face away from their cell phones and tiktok's and forced back into the real world. It wakes the sleeping liberals up.

HOWEVER...
I know who leaked the draft. I KNOW WHO IT WAS.
And if you really think about it, you know too.
It was the wife of Clarence Thomas, Ginni Thomas, with the help of hubby Clarence Thomas.
We know this because neither of the two have respect for the US supreme court, this they both have made quite clear.
So, now we know.....

 

[Fenixgoon]

Don't know how the abortion battle will turn out. A potential ruling "could have" been intentionally leaked just to see how the country would react, and if all hell broke out then the ruling draft "could still be" changed.
But, I thoroughly enjoy the battle and the outrage because it takes battle and outrage from the people for things to happen. It gets people's face away from their cell phones and tiktok's and forced back into the real world. It wakes the sleeping liberals up.

HOWEVER...
I know who leaked the draft. I KNOW WHO IT WAS.
And if you really think about it, you know too.
It was the wife of Clarence Thomas, Ginni Thomas, with the help of hubby Clarence Thomas.
We know this because neither of the two have respect for the US supreme court, this they both have made quite clear.
So, now we know.....

I will be impressed if you're right

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Don't know how the abortion battle will turn out. A potential ruling "could have" been intentionally leaked just to see how the country would react, and if all hell broke out then the ruling draft "could still be" changed.
But, I thoroughly enjoy the battle and the outrage because it takes battle and outrage from the people for things to happen. It gets people's face away from their cell phones and tiktok's and forced back into the real world. It wakes the sleeping liberals up.

HOWEVER...
I know who leaked the draft. I KNOW WHO IT WAS.
And if you really think about it, you know too.
It was the wife of Clarence Thomas, Ginni Thomas, with the help of hubby Clarence Thomas.
We know this because neither of the two have respect for the US supreme court, this they both have made quite clear.
So, now we know.....

We also know Kavanaugh, Goresucks, Alito, and Barret join Uncle Thomas in their contempt for the Supreme Court

 

[brycejones]

You don't even pretend to think about any of this critically anymore, you just repeat whatever Tucker Carlson tells you.
I could refute every point you made, it is all laughable easy to do, but why bother? You would just act surprised that you were once again duped ignore whatever we say and then in two weeks and say it all again.

FTFY

 

[sportage]

I do admire how absolutely and openly outraged Elizabeth Warren is over this. I think she reflects how most Americans feel right now. And as for the two losers, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski now having feel lied to, what did they expect from a lying rapist on the high court? The two justices lied well in their hearing, just as their messiah Donald Trump Lies every day. You should have done your homework Susan, Lisa, then you would have known better.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I do admire how absolutely and openly outraged Elizabeth Warren is over this. I think she reflects how most Americans feel right now. And as for the two losers, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski now having feel lied to, what did they expect from a lying rapist on the high court? The two justices lied well in their hearing, just as their messiah Donald Trump Lies every day. You should have done your homework Susan, Lisa, then you would have known better.

You don't really think Susan Collins gives a shit do you?