Rogers Throttling the P2P applications

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realEZE

Member
Apr 19, 2007
86
0
0
Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
I have to throttle my own network just for my VOIP to work. (I have roommates)

It's crazy when you consider how much damage one user can do to a network if left unchecked.

You don't have to throttle anything. You just don't have QoS set up.

Subscribers on Rogers are already "checked", as they have upload and download speed limits.

What we're talking about, is an additional layer of shaping whose only purpose is to limit those who might actually use the BW capacity they pay for...

Before you label me a P2P junkie, that's not my vantage point. Service levels for business users are clearly laid out. I believe the same attention to contract details should exist for residential users, and not a floating AUP.
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
1
0
Originally posted by: azzlikr
Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
I have to throttle my own network just for my VOIP to work. (I have roommates)

It's crazy when you consider how much damage one user can do to a network if left unchecked.

You don't have to throttle anything. You just don't have QoS set up.

Subscribers on Rogers are already "checked", as they have upload and download speed limits.

What we're talking about, is an additional layer of shaping whose only purpose is to limit those who might actually use the BW capacity they pay for...

Before you label me a P2P junkie, that's not my vantage point. Service levels for business users are clearly laid out. I believe the same attention to contract details should exist for residential users, and not a floating AUP.

That is just it...you are not paying for that bandwidth...you are paying to sometimes burst up TO that bandwidth...go order a T1 line, and if you P2P and fill that line 24/7, the ISP will never bat an eye and won't do a thing and won't care...because THEN you are paying for that bandwidth.
 

geokilla

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2006
2,012
3
81
But they clearly offer that huge bandwidth. They have a download limit of 60GB/month for Express (my ISP package) and below users. For Extreme, the limit is 100GB! If they want to limit the bandwidth, they should lower the download limit first, and raise the price for every extra GB from $1.25 to like $5.00. This way, people will surely download less. I mean come on, offering a download limit of 60GB/month, but in reality no one uses that much. Only a few people like me will use half of that because of my anime.

They are going to lose many customers if this continues. I have already sent a complaint mail to Rogers. I am pretty sure my dad will switch ISPs to say Bell.

I'm downloading Naruto right now, and usually I get speeds of like 300KB because of the massive uploads. But instead, I'm getting a speed of 1KB. The average download rate is 21KB, when it is usually around 120KB.

Plus, they only started packet shaping I think 2 years ago according to the info that I got off Google. I've been a subscriber to Rogers for like 4 years, so I had no idea of packet shaping, till yesterday. I didn't get a call, or mail from Rogers that they were going to start packet shaping, and limit the download speeds of almost all P2P programs.
 

JackMDS

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 25, 1999
29,539
418
126
Originally posted by: geokilla
They are going to lose many customers if this continues.
You have a special hobby (amine), so you have to consider an ISP that can caters to your Hobby's needs.

Otherwise do you think that department stores care too much if they lose their Shop Lifter clients?:shocked:

 

geokilla

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2006
2,012
3
81
This might be of interest to you guys.

link

Check out the 80th comment.

* Rogers chose not to notify their customers of the throttling at any time, due to their belief that it would be challenging for the majority of their customers (i.e. unsophisticated users) to comprehend the rate reductions; Rogers feels this constitutes not only a reasonable, but superb level of customer service

Also, the reply that pk got on the 99th comment. I say I will get the same e-mail from Rogers within the next 24 hours. Another interesting comment is the 77th comment.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Keep on raping your provider geokilla.

You'll soon find yourself without Internet.

You are the proverbial virus on an otherwise fully and well function system. We will eliminate you.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Get yourself a business class line, like a T1. They probably won't mess with you much then.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
These situations are always a tight rope imo. An ISP advertises a certain download speed then limits your ability to actually use it.

I understand the consumer grade junk is shared bandwidth but at the same time, the ISP's do bear some of the blame for their advertising to consumers. I have no doubt ISP's find ways to get rid of users like geokilla who actually use the bandwidth promised.
Every one of them has no problem plastering things like "Massive 10Mbps download" all over the place, then people are lucky to see half of that or are put on quotas.

I'd probably get a T1 if this is something you are serious about. Something with an SLA about guranteed bandwidth.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
Originally posted by: spidey07
Keep on raping your provider geokilla.

You'll soon find yourself without Internet.

You are the proverbial virus on an otherwise fully and well function system. We will eliminate you.

My company is the 19th largest ISP in the country and we don't try to eliminate users who use a lot of bandwidth.

Maybe you guys just don't know how to design a "well functional system" so you cut corners and try to eliminate users who actually take full advantage of your advertised service that you're too cheap to provide as promised.

I'm going to send this thread to the Sr. Systems Admin and Sr. Network Admin. They'll get a chuckle out of this.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Maybe you guys just don't know how to design a "well functional system" so you cut corners and try to eliminate users who actually take full advantage of your advertised service that you're too cheap to provide as promised.

I'm going to send this thread to the Sr. Systems Admin and Sr. Network Admin. They'll get a chuckle out of this.

Bwahahahaa!

You do that. Those guys aren't even in the correct department to have the decision making abilities to do jack squat.
 

jersiq

Senior member
May 18, 2005
887
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
These situations are always a tight rope imo. An ISP advertises a certain download speed then limits your ability to actually use it.

I understand the consumer grade junk is shared bandwidth but at the same time, the ISP's do bear some of the blame for their advertising to consumers. I have no doubt ISP's find ways to get rid of users like geokilla who actually use the bandwidth promised.
Every one of them has no problem plastering things like "Massive 10Mbps download" all over the place, then people are lucky to see half of that or are put on quotas.

I'd probably get a T1 if this is something you are serious about. Something with an SLA about guranteed bandwidth.


I don't know about anyone else, but I have never been promised bandwidth. Every company I have purchased from has a neat disclaimer stating that you can have speeds UP TO a certain limit, but "actual" speeds can vary. Read the fine print.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: jersiq
I don't know about anyone else, but I have never been promised bandwidth. Every company I have purchased from has a neat disclaimer stating that you can have speeds UP TO a certain limit, but "actual" speeds can vary. Read the fine print.

Genx is dealing with services that the home consumer is not used to. There is no "up to" clauses.

It's "you are guaranteed XXX Mbs constantly, that's what you are paying for and that is what you will get without fail"

There are contractual clauses that guarantee this. As such the network is built to handle these agreements. Consumer level stuff? The price charged is why you want to get rid of the top 5% of abusers.

 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: child of wonder
The ISP I work for doesn't throttle people like that or attempt to get rid of high bandwidth users.

and they will stay around for a long time because they get the service they pay for.

Glad I have my current ISP who doesn't limit anything and I get 8Mbit 24/7
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Originally posted by: spidey07
Good riddence gokilla.

Providers don't want you.

downloading anime that is not licensed in North America is not against any laws which can be enforced. If it was, then the providers would be gone, but they're all overseas...there's many free http download locations too.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Maybe you guys just don't know how to design a "well functional system" so you cut corners and try to eliminate users who actually take full advantage of your advertised service that you're too cheap to provide as promised.

I'm going to send this thread to the Sr. Systems Admin and Sr. Network Admin. They'll get a chuckle out of this.

Bwahahahaa!

You do that. Those guys aren't even in the correct department to have the decision making abilities to do jack squat.

Think again.

Myself, the Sr. Systems Admin, Sr. Network Admin, Security Analyst, my supervisor, his supervisor, and the other network guys are the ones that make that determination.

You know so much about my company and it's organizational structure.

But keep patting yourself on the back and acting like you know everything. I'm sure eventually everyone will understand your greatness.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Originally posted by: spidey07
Good riddence gokilla.

Providers don't want you.

downloading anime that is not licensed in North America is not against any laws which can be enforced. If it was, then the providers would be gone, but they're all overseas...there's many free http download locations too.

I don't think it's the legality of it that is the problem. It's the fact those users use up more bandwidth than a good number of other users combined.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Maybe you guys just don't know how to design a "well functional system" so you cut corners and try to eliminate users who actually take full advantage of your advertised service that you're too cheap to provide as promised.

I'm going to send this thread to the Sr. Systems Admin and Sr. Network Admin. They'll get a chuckle out of this.

Bwahahahaa!

You do that. Those guys aren't even in the correct department to have the decision making abilities to do jack squat.

Think again.

Myself, the Sr. Systems Admin, Sr. Network Admin, Security Analyst, my supervisor, his supervisor, and the other network guys are the ones that make that determination.

You know so much about my company and it's organizational structure.

But keep patting yourself on the back and acting like you know everything. I'm sure eventually everyone will understand your greatness.

You said your company was 19th. Is that in the US? What is your primary customer base (consumer, business, .gov)? How does that compare to Rogers in Canada? Or Comcast in the US?
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Maybe you guys just don't know how to design a "well functional system" so you cut corners and try to eliminate users who actually take full advantage of your advertised service that you're too cheap to provide as promised.

I'm going to send this thread to the Sr. Systems Admin and Sr. Network Admin. They'll get a chuckle out of this.

Bwahahahaa!

You do that. Those guys aren't even in the correct department to have the decision making abilities to do jack squat.

Think again.

Myself, the Sr. Systems Admin, Sr. Network Admin, Security Analyst, my supervisor, his supervisor, and the other network guys are the ones that make that determination.

You know so much about my company and it's organizational structure.

But keep patting yourself on the back and acting like you know everything. I'm sure eventually everyone will understand your greatness.

You said your company was 19th. Is that in the US? What is your primary customer base (consumer, business, .gov)? How does that compare to Rogers in Canada? Or Comcast in the US?

Consumers are our primary customer base. We have quite a few small businesses on cable modems and medium businesses on CMs or T1s.

Not sure what the other company's numbers are, but we have approx. 250,000 customers IIRC.
 

geokilla

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 2006
2,012
3
81
The return e-mail that I received from a Rogers Customer Service representative.

Dear Sir/Madame,

Thank-you for your email. We strive to provide you with the highest
level of customer support, and hope we can be of assistance in
addressing your questions.

We understand your concerns regarding issues you are experiencing with
your peer-to-peer (P2P) applications. To ensure a consistently high
level of service for all Rogers customers, it is necessary to put
limits
on the amount of network bandwidth available for certain types of
applications. This process is called traffic regulation (rate-limiting,
traffic shaping, throttling).

As peer-to-peer (P2P) applications have grown in popularity, their
share
of overall network traffic has increased dramatically. In particular,
the application Bittorrent uses all of the space available for uploads.
To ensure that a relatively small number of applications do not slow
service for everyone, Rogers limits the space available for P2P
uploads.
This ensures all customers have a high level of service for
time-sensitive tasks like sending email, requesting web pages or voice
messaging.

Rogers does not block any type of Internet traffic or application. Nor
do we monitor the content of customer communications or activities on
the Internet. Our traffic regulation is based on the type of
application, not the way it is used.

We thank you for your understanding in this matter.

If you have any further questions or comments regarding our service,
please fill out the online form on our Customer Support page listed
below or contact us by phone at 1-888-288-4663.

Regards,
Ben L.
Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet
Electronic Support Group

Customer Support: http://help.yahoo.com/rogers
Email: internetsupport@rci.rogers.com

Rogers Cable Customer Service
*hidden*


Original Message Follows:
------------------------
*** Your Cable General Inquiry ***


Account Number -->

Name --> *hidden*

Email --> =*hidden*

Address 1 -->

Address 2 -->

Postal Code -->



Subject --> Your Cable General Inquiry

Comments --> Why are you guys limiting internet speeds for BT. Here I
am
trying to download anime, but instead, you guys have to limit my speeds
to
0KB/s. Before, it took less than 20min to get one episode of anime, now
it
takes a day! WHY ARE YOU GUYS PACKET SHAPING?!?! I'm very disappointed
in
you guys. I feel like I''m getting ripped off. Wait, I AM! We're
paying
for Rogers High Speed Internet package Express, but here I am getting
speeds of Lite!
 

realEZE

Member
Apr 19, 2007
86
0
0
Originally posted by: jersiq
I don't know about anyone else, but I have never been promised bandwidth. Every company I have purchased from has a neat disclaimer stating that you can have speeds UP TO a certain limit, but "actual" speeds can vary. Read the fine print.

LOL.

So if I sell you "UP TO 5 Mbps", then traffic shape your session to 64kbps, I am ok as long because I said "UP TO"!?!?

Why all the ISP love? If you (or your dad, this is ATOT after all) work for an ISP, can you please raise your hand?


 

realEZE

Member
Apr 19, 2007
86
0
0
Originally posted by: nweaver
That is just it...you are not paying for that bandwidth...you are paying to sometimes burst up TO that bandwidth...go order a T1 line, and if you P2P and fill that line 24/7, the ISP will never bat an eye and won't do a thing and won't care...because THEN you are paying for that bandwidth.

So, because I am a lowly residential user, I am entitled only to what they deign to give me at any point in time?

Come on guys, I don't support the P2P junkies, but I do know what a raw deal smells like...

 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: azzlikr
Originally posted by: jersiq
I don't know about anyone else, but I have never been promised bandwidth. Every company I have purchased from has a neat disclaimer stating that you can have speeds UP TO a certain limit, but "actual" speeds can vary. Read the fine print.

LOL.

So if I sell you "UP TO 5 Mbps", then traffic shape your session to 64kbps, I am ok as long because I said "UP TO"!?!?

Why all the ISP love? If you (or your dad, this is ATOT after all) work for an ISP, can you please raise your hand?

This isn't ATOT. This is the networking forum.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Originally posted by: azzlikr
Originally posted by: nweaver
That is just it...you are not paying for that bandwidth...you are paying to sometimes burst up TO that bandwidth...go order a T1 line, and if you P2P and fill that line 24/7, the ISP will never bat an eye and won't do a thing and won't care...because THEN you are paying for that bandwidth.

So, because I am a lowly residential user, I am entitled only to what they deign to give me at any point in time?

Come on guys, I don't support the P2P junkies, but I do know what a raw deal smells like...

You get what you pay for. If you pay for the guarantee, you get the guarantee. If you don't and get a lowly residential line...
 
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