Russia gets Crimea

[fskimospy]

I question how such a PR homerun for the west exists yet there is no footage.

Why would you expect there to be footage? Do you think they drive around the country videotaping their every move?

Election observers are there for exactly one purpose: to monitor the election. There is always suspicion of foreign observers and doing things like videotaping checkpoints, walking around with cameras everywhere, etc, just validates those suspicions.

ie: what you are asking for them to have been doing would have been directly counterproductive for their mission. This will never happen.

 

[Texashiker]

<snip>

Sounds like being part of the Russian economy is a great thing to be these days, lol.

Does not change the fact Russia has some of the largest untapped oil reserves in the world, and some of the largest areas of virgin timber in the world. There is so much untapped methane in Siberia it is bubbling out of the lakes.

Russia has something the EU needs badly and that is natural gas.

Go ahead and laugh now, because the EU will be crying next winter.

Is there any talk of Ukraine becoming a member of the EU?

In this thread, no.

But Ukraine was supposed to have applied to become part of the EU.

 

[brycejones]

We think things are bad now? I bet the Ukraine does a full breakup before or shortly after it joins the EU.

People may be stupid, but they are not dumb,,, well some of them are dumb.

The EU and the Euro are on the way to collapse. Do we "really" expect the Ukraine people to be part of the EU train wreck?

Crimea was faced with two choices:

1. Get pulled into the EU, and either go bankrupt, or have to pay for someone elses bankruptcy.

2. Protect their economy and economic future and join Russia. At least Russia is not having to bailout Greece or Spain.

The writing is on the wall, the EU needs fresh meat to survive and Ukraine was going to be that fresh meat. Crimea said "screw this, I am out of here."

The EU is over there crying, but, but, but we need fresh economies to pillage. What are we supposed to do now?

Now that Crimea has broke away from Ukraine, look for other parts to revolt as well.

You need to admit your drug problem and get help.

 

[Genx87]

Does not change the fact Russia has some of the largest untapped oil reserves in the world, and some of the largest areas of virgin timber in the world. There is so much untapped methane in Siberia it is bubbling out of the lakes.

Russia has something the EU needs badly and that is natural gas.

Go ahead and laugh now, because the EU will be crying next winter.

Have you already forgot our large oil reserves that are being readied to fill in this capacity?

 

[fskimospy]

Does not change the fact Russia has some of the largest untapped oil reserves in the world, and some of the largest areas of virgin timber in the world. There is so much untapped methane in Siberia it is bubbling out of the lakes.

Russia has something the EU needs badly and that is natural gas.

Go ahead and laugh now, because the EU will be crying next winter.

No, they won't. Russia needs the EU much more than the EU needs Russia.

I like how you try and make the argument that Russia's economy is really strong and joining it is a good thing. When I point out the fact that they are currently undergoing an economic crisis as the result of their aggression you say "yeah but that doesn't matter because oil". Well if their oil and gas reserves are the ticket to prosperity... why are they undergoing an economic crisis right now?

The reason? Because you're full of shit. You've become emotionally invested in Russia 'winning' this so whatever you can think of to justify your position is what you believe. It's the same reason why you parrot Russian state propaganda as if it is real news while discounting independent news sources.

 

[Vic]

I say let Russia have it.

 

[Texashiker]

Well if their oil and gas reserves are the ticket to prosperity... why are they undergoing an economic crisis right now?

Underdevelopment / under-utilization of resources.

The difference between Russia and Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia developed their oils fields are rich because of it.

The reason? Because you're full of shit. You've become emotionally invested in Russia 'winning' this so whatever you can think of to justify your position is what you believe. It's the same reason why you parrot Russian state propaganda as if it is real news while discounting independent news sources.

Bull crap.

The EU and the Euro is a slow motion train wreck. What does the EU have to pull them out of recession? Not much.

What does Russia have? They have massive amounts of untapped natural resources. If Russia needs an economic boost just develop an oil field. Invite Exxon or KBR in to do the development, boom, thousands of new jobs created.

 

[BUnit1701]

Why would you expect there to be footage? Do you think they drive around the country videotaping their every move?

Election observers are there for exactly one purpose: to monitor the election. There is always suspicion of foreign observers and doing things like videotaping checkpoints, walking around with cameras everywhere, etc, just validates those suspicions.

ie: what you are asking for them to have been doing would have been directly counterproductive for their mission. This will never happen.

I'm not talking about the observers recording it, but considering their job, it would seem there should have been some press with them/following them.

 

[fskimospy]

Underdevelopment / under-utilization of resources.

The difference between Russia and Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia developed their oils fields are rich because of it.

Bull crap.

The EU and the Euro is a slow motion train wreck. What does the EU have to pull them out of recession? Not much.

What does Russia have? They have massive amounts of untapped natural resources. If Russia needs an economic boost just develop an oil field. Invite Exxon or KBR in to do the development, boom, thousands of new jobs created.

Russia badly needs an economic boost and has needed one for awhile now. Why aren't they undertaking your master economic plan? Capital is fleeing their country, their stock market has taken a huge hit since the crisis happened and they are dropping billions and billions to keep their currency from going into the toilet.

I think we might not listen to the guy who thought China could cash in their treasuries like a savings bond when it comes to things like this.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Crimea can vote on it's independence, but not becoming a part of Russia while Russia is occupying it. Compare with Kosovo.

Crimea is not a part of Russia and wont be recognized as such.

Not now of course, but eventually. Two things leave little doubt, and that's the percentage of voters approving of joining Russia are inflated, but also the majority favor doing so over other options. Also history shows that other nations absorbed by whatever means do become recognized eventually and with Crimea being more or less willing despite the circumstances it's merely a matter of time.

While I don't like what's happening there's not much else to do. What do you tell Crimea? "Oh, you can't be independent or be part of Russia and if you don't rejoin Ukraine then we'll...". Will what precisely? Bomb Crimea into submission? Have another "liberation" like we did with Iraq? Starve them into bending their knee to the west? I don't see a plausible alternative scenario to this other than to bluster and froth. No one stood against the US when we brought disaster to Iraq, and no one is going to cut their throat over Crimea.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Russia badly needs an economic boost and has needed one for awhile now. Why aren't they undertaking your master economic plan? Capital is fleeing their country, their stock market has taken a huge hit since the crisis happened and they are dropping billions and billions to keep their currency from going into the toilet.

I think we might not listen to the guy who thought China could cash in their treasuries like a savings bond when it comes to things like this.

So just what do you think can be done to have Russia tell Crimea that it was all a mistake and it has to go back to Ukraine? At the point such pressure is exerted, if indeed it can be you'd best prepare for real war.

 

[fskimospy]

So just what do you think can be done to have Russia tell Crimea that it was all a mistake and it has to go back to Ukraine? At the point such pressure is exerted, if indeed it can be you'd best prepare for real war.

There's no way that's going to happen. The best we can do here (and what we should do) is exact a heavy enough price from Russia that they think twice before invading their next neighbor.

 

[Lepton87]

During an interview with RT the lady gave her name and what organization she was with.

With that information foxnews, cnn, cbs news, abc news,,, whoever can contact that lady and do any interview.

Lets say fox, cnn, cbs news, abc news,,,, whoever wanted to talk to the people who claimed they were shot and denied entry. Who are those people and where are they?

Wikipedia also list some of the poll Monitors:

Charalampos Angourakis (Greek),
Johan Bäckman (Finnish),
Mateusz Piskorski (Polish),
Nenad Popovi&#263; (Serbian),
Tatjana Ždanoka (Latvian)
Luc Michel (Belgian),
Aleksandr Simov (Bulgarian)
Sr&#273;a Trifkovi&#263; (Serbian-American)

This is just ridiculous, that guy is a complete nut-job. You would be hard-pressed to find a Russian that is more biased towards Putin. His mere presence makes a mockery of that so called panel of unbiased impartial observers. If that distinguished and honorable persona is of any indication of other members then Putin really assembled a "dream" panel. Even if you tried very hard you can't take any supervision seriously if it has members like Piskorski in its ranks.

 

[lozina]

I wonder if the folks who decry this election in Crimea as a fraud had no problems with the post-invasion elections in Iraq and Afghanistan....

 

[Texashiker]

Russia badly needs an economic boost and has needed one for awhile now. Why aren't they undertaking your master economic plan? Capital is fleeing their country, their stock market has taken a huge hit since the crisis happened and they are dropping billions and billions to keep their currency from going into the toilet.

Remind me how the Russian economy was doing a year ago. what about 2 and 3 years ago? How was the Russian economy doing then?

While the EU was trying to figure out a way to bailout Greece and maybe Spain, how was the Russian economy doing?

When the EU plunged head first into a recession, how was Russia doing?

 

[Jaskalas]

There's no way that's going to happen. The best we can do here (and what we should do) is exact a heavy enough price from Russia that they think twice before invading their next neighbor.

We should find a way to protect the rest of Ukraine, to honor our treaty.

 

[Texashiker]

We should find a way to protect the rest of Ukraine, to honor our treaty.

The Ukraine is none of our business.

 

[zinfamous]

To win by 93% is more than just propaganda. This is the will of the people.

Interesting that you would interpret such an outcome thusly.

 

[zinfamous]

The Ukraine is none of our business.

Treaty says otherwise.

Deal with it.

 

[Jaskalas]

The Ukraine is none of our business.

Then we shouldn't make treaties that are none of our business, but backing out of it in the middle of an invasion is not the correct thing to do.

 

[Broheim]

When Russia takes over nobody dies, when America takes over, millions are displaced, hundreds of thousands die, civilization ceases and the area is left in complete and utter desolation and anarchy. Russian BLOODLESS invasions are civilized in comparison to the armegeddons that America inflicts. Now if this devolves into something like a typtical American fuckup, I will amend my position at that time.

Tell that to the Crimean Tartars last time Russians took over.

 

[cirrrocco]

RT was interviewing observers at the polling places. The observers were giving their names and what agency they were with.

What are the names of the people who were shot at, and what agency were they with?

Exact names please so their story can be independently verified.

I may not agree with most of what you say TH, but i agree with you here. The media manipulation is complete when you see smart people like eski and warmongers like genx87 coming together and talking about democracy and rule of law.

1. where was the vehemence when Grenada [ and a bunch of south american countries , if you will] was politically made effete and puppet govt installed
2. where was the vehemence when Karzai was propped up with weekly suitcases filled with money from the CIA. so the vaunted democracy is no applicable when it is one of your boys running the govt.
3. where was the vehemence when opposition democratic leaders were harassed , killed by US forces in afghanistan when they wanted to stand against karzai
4. what about the hypocrisy when the US starts negotiating with the "good taliban". These Al Qaeda bastards killed thousands of our young men and these fucking State dep, CIA spooks wants to talk to these bastards and prop up sham elites flown in from the US.
5. The UN mandate for Libya was just to fly over and do recon. It then became bombing, inserting special forces, funding islamic radicals and supprting rebels with weapons and mil advisers. That was not the US mandate. There were barely a pip from the resident neocon warmongers we have on this board, coz it is our boys doing the bombing and killing
6. Lets not even get to Iraq. where are all the turncoats now that wee flown in to iraq. Not sure if anyone still remembers riverbend from baghdad. Here is her last blog posting 10 years after the war. just fcking sad.
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
At the time genx was trotting the war propaganda faithfully from the imperium western media with its tainted journalists, no questioning there of how the US totally ran roughshod over pretty much the entire world to push its agenda and kill a bunch of people and just fycked up that entire region. You can barely hear a squeak from these war mongers now.
7. does anyone remember george Saksahaville , the epic chicken hawk from Georgia. That rentboy who was flown in from the US to start a conflict with Russia is now safely enconced back in the US. why does the US interfere in tiny states near the Russian bear.

The only reason I think is to perpetuate the monstrous funding our MIC gets [surveillance, weapons, military R&D, cushy contractor jobs]. close all the fucking overseas bases, get our kids back home, fund universities, fund technical schools, fund next gen tech [even if only 5% become successful], it is better than bombing places far away and killing people and putting out people in power.

You will now see welshbloke, genx, eski faithfully parrot western media with its dickless journalists [who call themselves journalists but are just whores]

 

[fskimospy]

Remind me how the Russian economy was doing a year ago. what about 2 and 3 years ago? How was the Russian economy doing then?

While the EU was trying to figure out a way to bailout Greece and maybe Spain, how was the Russian economy doing?

When the EU plunged head first into a recession from the banking collapse of 2008, how was Russia doing?

How was Russia doing after the banking collapse? Uhmm, Russia was undergoing a catastrophic recession, shrinking at nearly an 8% annual rate, nearly twice that of the Eurozone.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#Economic_growth

Why do you say so many things that are so obviously stupid?

 

[zinfamous]

Tell that to the Crimean Tartars last time Russians took over.

Or the 500,000 Latvians killed or sent to prison when they invaded in 1942. Same with the Lithuanians, Estonians, and Pols.

Russia: the first and only occupier that you should want!



(not saying that these are the same as Crimea and Ukraine today, but bshole's profound rejection of history to make such statements is rather staggering)

 

[cirrrocco]

I'm not talking about the observers recording it, but considering their job, it would seem there should have been some press with them/following them.

Another point that the parrots dont talk about now .. Before it was omg OSCE monitors are not allowed , now that crimea gave them permission to monitor elections a few days ago, they didnt go. Like I said in my post from a few days ago, all these OSCE monitors wanted to do then was stage a few photos and start propaganda about how the elctions are sham

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukr...onitor-illegal-crimean-referendum-339092.html

The upcoming referendum in Crimea is illegal as it contravenes the Ukrainian constitution, OSCE Chairman-in-Office, Swiss Foreign Minister Didier Burkhalter said.