Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,848
3,389
136
Huh? AGM-88 and AIM-120 are both integrated on the F-16 MLUs they are getting. The only real question I have is if the frames being transferred are getting radar upgrades that will let them take advantage of the full range of AIM-120C. Even if not the upgrade over their Mig-29s is quite substantial which have much more limited capabilities.
Yes are getting, dont have yet , arent impacting the battlefield yet, aren't impacting tactical or strategic decision making yet.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,533
7,591
136
Bonus round, Russia wants to blow things up in space. Tried of being on the backfoot of satellite communications and imagery.

Russia warns United States: use of SpaceX for spying makes its satellites a target

MOSCOW, March 20 (Reuters) - Russia said on Wednesday that it knew about U.S. intelligence efforts to use commercial satellite operators such as SpaceX and cautioned that such moves made their satellites legitimate targets.
Reuters reported this month that SpaceX is building a network of hundreds of spy satellites under a classified contract with a U.S. intelligence agency, demonstrating deepening ties between Elon Musk's space company and national security agencies.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,772
37,817
136
They dont have integration on the AGM-88 and they dont have AIM-120 on an aircraft with a radar that can engage at long distance.

/We are not the same meme

Not really an obstacle. Even if it was, they got HARM working on Su-27s in pretty short order. Basic mode, but it got the job done. But there's no need, the USAF has been using Navy missiles for awhile now. I wouldn't worry about it.

As was mentioned, it's all about the radar. We have to hope those F-16s will be packing something better than APG-68s, in addition to HTS pods. They need AESA, that would allow them to get the most of out AMRAAM and HARM both. I've been hoping Russia's penchant for EW and blanket jamming everything would push the powers that be to acquiesce on sending modern radar with those F-16s. AESA has much better resistance to jamming. 90s era APG-68 not so much, it would be useless against cruise missiles and drones in addition to being too anemic to deal with Russian fighters, packing R-77s.

I hope White House and Pentagon just bite the bullet. Focus on how long AESA has been around, give Ukrainian pilots the best chance they can get to finish the mission and return home safely.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,430
1,622
136
Bonus round, Russia wants to blow things up in space. Tried of being on the backfoot of satellite communications and imagery.

Russia warns United States: use of SpaceX for spying makes its satellites a target

MOSCOW, March 20 (Reuters) - Russia said on Wednesday that it knew about U.S. intelligence efforts to use commercial satellite operators such as SpaceX and cautioned that such moves made their satellites legitimate targets.
Reuters reported this month that SpaceX is building a network of hundreds of spy satellites under a classified contract with a U.S. intelligence agency, demonstrating deepening ties between Elon Musk's space company and national security agencies.

The amount of carnage that Russia would need to cause in LEO in order to degrade SpaceX's satellite network would basically make LEO off-limits to everyone including them. Another empty threat by the Russians.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,559
34,255
136
Not really an obstacle. Even if it was, they got HARM working on Su-27s in pretty short order. Basic mode, but it got the job done. But there's no need, the USAF has been using Navy missiles for awhile now. I wouldn't worry about it.

As was mentioned, it's all about the radar. We have to hope those F-16s will be packing something better than APG-68s, in addition to HTS pods. They need AESA, that would allow them to get the most of out AMRAAM and HARM both. I've been hoping Russia's penchant for EW and blanket jamming everything would push the powers that be to acquiesce on sending modern radar with those F-16s. AESA has much better resistance to jamming. 90s era APG-68 not so much, it would be useless against cruise missiles and drones in addition to being too anemic to deal with Russian fighters, packing R-77s.

I hope White House and Pentagon just bite the bullet. Focus on how long AESA has been around, give Ukrainian pilots the best chance they can get to finish the mission and return home safely.

I think SABR is too much to hope for especially as our own F-16 fleet is still getting it. The MLUs have AN/APG-66s so if now surplus AN/APG-68s could be swapped in it would be a nice upgrade.
 

Young Grasshopper

Senior member
Nov 9, 2007
929
299
136
Disagree with what?
I am telling you Russia will proceed to attacking more countries, including NATO, if Russia achieves victory in Ukraine.




I suggest you read that Wiki page bud. You’d think with the invention of the internet this Red Scare type stuff wouldn’t be as effective anymore but apparently it still works wonders considering how fearful you all are of Putin. Guess this propaganda still works in this modern era we live in today.

BTW, this is the same branch of government that told us Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. We all know that was one huge lie.

And if you’re so scared of Russias impending invasion of NATO countries, stop being keyboard warriors and armchair analysts and get on the front lines to help the Ukrainians that you care about so much.

They even have a website set up for you with details:


Ahh not going to join? Didn’t think so.
 
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RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,789
4,382
106
I'm curious if some of russia's recent success is because they have access to phony stark's equipment. It sure seems like things have picked up for them since it was mentioned earlier in this topic.
I think its because of Russia's usage of glide bombs. They are not very accurate, but they make 15m craters and they have been using them heavily. Ukraine can't counter them effectively atm, but that should change when they receive the F16's.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,533
7,591
136
I suggest you read that Wiki page bud. You’d think with the invention of the internet this Red Scare type stuff wouldn’t be as effective anymore but apparently it still works wonders considering how fearful you all are of Putin. Guess this propaganda still works in this modern era we live in today.
You sold that same lie before you attacked Ukraine. You vowed nothing would happen. You are worth less than shit.

I quoted no less than four different nations who know we need to arm up and prepare for war with Russia.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,440
12,573
146
The amount of carnage that Russia would need to cause in LEO in order to degrade SpaceX's satellite network would basically make LEO off-limits to everyone including them. Another empty threat by the Russians.
Realistically speaking, I don't think Russia cares about a Kessler syndrome. It'll affect every first world nation on the planet far more than it would them. Frankly that's one of the more strategically sound things they could do, presuming it wouldn't trigger a response from NATO (it should).
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,772
37,817
136
I think SABR is too much to hope for especially as our own F-16 fleet is still getting it. The MLUs have AN/APG-66s so if now surplus AN/APG-68s could be swapped in it would be a nice upgrade.

It would just be nice to have an upgrade that wouldn't leave the pilot using just eyeballs to engage cruise missiles and drones. APG-68 isn't terrible, but it's still outclassed by what's in the Su-35 that will be looking for it.

After all the effort, cost and time of waiting for Ukraine to get F-16s and pilots for them, I would think the West would want to make sure they could survive long enough to make a difference. Ukrainian pilots have balls of solid rock, they deserve AESA dagnabit.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,430
1,622
136
Realistically speaking, I don't think Russia cares about a Kessler syndrome. It'll affect every first world nation on the planet far more than it would them. Frankly that's one of the more strategically sound things they could do, presuming it wouldn't trigger a response from NATO (it should).

Direct attacks on US satellite assets would trigger a response from the US and the US would invoke article 5.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,440
12,573
146
Direct attacks on US satellite assets would trigger a response from the US and the US would invoke article 5.
And what if it wasn't a direct attack on a US satellite? What if it was a direct attack on a Spacex one? Or a Russian one? "Our cyber analysts determined an enemy force had taken control of one of our satellites and was using it against us on the battlefield. We chose to destroy our own satellite rather than have it used against us. Not our fault if you're in the nearby orbital path."
 

itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,848
3,389
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Realistically speaking, I don't think Russia cares about a Kessler syndrome. It'll affect every first world nation on the planet far more than it would them. Frankly that's one of the more strategically sound things they could do, presuming it wouldn't trigger a response from NATO (it should).
Starlink orbits are way to low to be a problem other then very short term.they require ion engines just to keep themselves in orbit.
 
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misuspita

Senior member
Jul 15, 2006
405
467
136
Great news. They should also reach out to NATO about membership. Keep that "war against NATO expansion" failure train rolling.
Moldova applied for EU and it will be an ongoing process for a few years. NATO is more difficult because they have no army.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,430
1,622
136
And what if it wasn't a direct attack on a US satellite? What if it was a direct attack on a Spacex one? Or a Russian one? "Our cyber analysts determined an enemy force had taken control of one of our satellites and was using it against us on the battlefield. We chose to destroy our own satellite rather than have it used against us. Not our fault if you're in the nearby orbital path."

A SpaceX satellite is a US satellite. SpaceX has 5,000+ satellites in LEO. If Russia takes out a couple it would probably only result in words of warning from the US. However in order to seriously degrade Starlink, that would required hundreds or thousands to be taken out. There would be no mistaken what was going if Russia tried that.


Starlink orbits are way to low to be a problem other then very short term.they require ion engines just to keep themselves in orbit.

It would still be a mess because the active satellites are in 340-350 mi orbits which is above the ISS. The destruction of satellites would cause debris to be scattered above and below these orbital planes. Even at these lower orbits they could still take 5+ years to decay.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,559
34,255
136
Mass Russian strikes on orbital assets seems unlikely outside of a full scale war. Anyway the Chinese would very much not appreciate becoming collateral damage up there just because the Russians are cranky. Since the Russian economy can no longer survive without Chinese permission their views are going to be taken into account.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,440
12,573
146
A SpaceX satellite is a US satellite. SpaceX has 5,000+ satellites in LEO. If Russia takes out a couple it would probably only result in words of warning from the US. However in order to seriously degrade Starlink, that would required hundreds or thousands to be taken out. There would be no mistaken what was going if Russia tried that.




It would still be a mess because the active satellites are in 340-350 mi orbits which is above the ISS. The destruction of satellites would cause debris to be scattered above and below these orbital planes. Even at these lower orbits they could still take 5+ years to decay.
It's a commercial satellite. Do you think the US should go to war over the destruction of commercial assets?
Starlink orbits are way to low to be a problem other then very short term.they require ion engines just to keep themselves in orbit.
I know, but it'd be a plausible enough 'Russian excuse' to destroy their own infrastructure and ruin everything for everyone else.

They've spent the last two years blowing up playgrounds and shit, just seems like right up their alley.
 

Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
3,918
5,791
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Russian losses do seem to indicate that they are not able to refurbish Soviet tanks quickly enough to replenish.

This may be temporary, or it may be the beginning of increasingly barbaric meat waves comprised mostly of extremely vulnerable IFVs.


 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,430
1,622
136
It's a commercial satellite. Do you think the US should go to war over the destruction of commercial assets?

If the the US started attacking Russian commercial oil tankers, refineries and oil terminals to damage the Russian economy would Russia say it is just commercial assets? Of course not. Attacking US commercial assets is considered a hostile act against the US. Especially if those assets are being used by the US military, which Starlink is used by the US military.
Now realistically, if it was just a few Starlink satellites. The US would probably not go to war because in the grand scheme of things there is so many Starlink satellites that overall it really wouldn't matter. However the level of destruction that Russia would have to do in LEO to impact Starlink service from 5,000+ satellites would result in a US declaration of war and invoking article 5 of NATO. Which is probably why, even though Russia makes threats, they are not serious about it.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,609
3,450
136
It's a commercial satellite. Do you think the US should go to war over the destruction of commercial assets?

I know, but it'd be a plausible enough 'Russian excuse' to destroy their own infrastructure and ruin everything for everyone else.

They've spent the last two years blowing up playgrounds and shit, just seems like right up their alley.

The World Trade Center towers were commercial assets. That would've triggered a war even without the Pentagon being hit.
 
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GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,429
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,440
12,573
146
The World Trade Center towers were commercial assets. That would've triggered a war even without the Pentagon being hit.
Each of those resulted in the loss of American lives. One was on our soil, the other was even arguable given that it didn't result in a war declaration for two years.

Would either of you be willing to go die in Ukraine because of a loss of some satellites?
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,609
3,450
136
Each of those resulted in the loss of American lives. One was on our soil, the other was even arguable given that it didn't result in a war declaration for two years.

Would either of you be willing to go die in Ukraine because of a loss of some satellites?

To paraphrase George Patton, the idea is to make them die for some satellites. And given the state of their military that is far more likely. You can't just allow other countries to demolish your communications or other infrastructure without consequence.
 
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