Sandra Bland Dashboard Video Released

[Perknose]

Fair enough.

I'll just stop right there and proclaim some sort of semi-detente, 'possum. Enough with the divisive hate and angry mud slinging, at least for tonight. It's wearying and destructive to the soul.

That slightly built Indian guy is supposed to have said it best, "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." :thumbsup:

 

[werepossum]

I'll just stop right there and proclaim some sort of semi-detente, 'possum. Enough with the divisive hate and angry mud slinging, at least for tonight. It's wearying and destructive to the soul.

That slightly built Indian guy is supposed to have said it best, "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: Fair enough, buddy. Have a good night.

 

[cabri]

White people trying to say what words are racists or not. Idiots.

And there are black people here that try to find racism in context that it is not intended.

There is black, white and multiple shades of grey for words and meanings.

However, some want to claim that all Grey belongs to them :thumbsdown:

 

[cabri]

I told you, you make me profoundly sad. It has nothing at all to do with my ego. It's painful for me to see a person like you who can't see what is plain to see when it's right in front of your nose. It wasn't the woman who reacted like an idiot; it was the cop. If you weren't such a judgmental, blame the victim, asshole, you would see that the reactions you call rational aren't possible for huge numbers of people. Please reassess who has the giant ego. You could be easily broken.

the woman acted like an idiot.

She had an attitude from the beginning (second verbal interaction) and kept trying to push the officer's buttons

 

[Ackmed]

She acted stupidly, then killed herself. So many things could have been done differently on both sides. Untimely it is her fault she is dead. Bottom line.

White people trying to say what words are racists or not. Idiots.

Racism knows no color. There are plenty of black people, brown people, and other colors who are racist as well. White people (and any other color) can certainly say what words are racist to them. Others may perceive them differently, which is fine.

 

[Moonbeam]

werepossum: See, this is the proggie mentality. It's always black and white, someone is completely correct and someone is completely wrong. Real life is virtually never black and white, it's shades of gray. It's ONLY shades of gray, the occasional Chattanooga or Charleston shooting aside. Both acted stupidly. As a result, one killed herself and one painted a giant target on his back.

I do not have any idea what a proggie mentality is in your mind. I think of myself as a progressive and I see that as meaning a person who integrates opposites at a higher level of understanding. I see you trying to shoe-horn a discussion of black and whites into a gray box when reality is in color. You talk of gray because it is you who has the black and white mentality.

I live in a world where logic and sense and reason have meaning. I do not accept that one person's opinion is as good as another. I believe that there are real facts, facts about reality and facts about human nature and that understanding them yields a product called wisdom. I believe that humanity can be spread out on a spectrum that range from fools to very wise people. I believe, therefore, that people can act with varying degrees of stupidity and can take positions in society that place on them varying degrees of responsibility to exercise their power wisely.

Because of this, I see a black woman, with all the baggage being black and a woman in contemporary America carries with it, and with reported mental health issues being stopped by a police officer who, because of the power we grant to that job, not only has a moral and societal duty, and also training, not only to allay tension at a traffic stop, but actually goaded and antagonized her to react. Both were stupid but that's not the point. One could not keep her cool when provoked, an enormously common phenomenon and one for which society has tried to tamper by careful and thoughtful police training and selection of quality officers, and one who intentionally abused his power, authority, and responsibility. You wish to point out that they are both at fault, but they are not equally both at fault. One reacted as is normal for people who suffer traditional ingrained societal abuse, and one violated his moral responsibility to conduct himself on the job with professionalism and dignity.

The result is that the woman is dead and we still don't know why.



w: And if we can't be rational, then no basis for any kind of society is possible, for we cannot all make allowances for each other. We're all just broken toys who would be better off just shooting whomever annoys us since we're just unable to interact rationally.

M: This is black and white thinking, in my opinion. We have a society and we are all members of it while occupying various levels of rational capacity. The fact that we are not all as reasonable as we should be is the allowance we must make for each other. We are all broken toys, my friend, just broken to different degrees and in different ways. The notion that we might as well kill each other as a consequence is completely insane. Humans have been evolving for millions of years to a higher conscious state. It is the highest level of aspiration for a human who is more advanced to give the guy behind him a hand up. It is self hate that makes us want to drag everybody else down. I mentioned, I'm sure, that the feeling that we are worthless, while what we do feel, is completely and totally wrong. But we are all defective because we don't believe that in our heart of hearts, just one level up from where the Heart of God is hidden away.

 

[HomerJS]

the woman acted like an idiot.

She had an attitude from the beginning (second verbal interaction) and kept trying to push the officer's buttons

Trained professional with gun has more of a burden in verbal interactions to deescalate. The first antagonistic thing said was by the cop. From the moment Bland said she was aggravated it was his duty to calm the situation down and he did the opposite.

 

[cabri]

Trained professional with gun has more of a burden in verbal interactions to deescalate. The first antagonistic thing said was by the cop. From the moment Bland said she was aggravated it was his duty to calm the situation down and he did the opposite.

Based on the below transcription - where do you feel that the antagonistic thing was said by the officer.

And where in the transcription does she first indicate an attitude to the officer?

Don't think anyone posted this so this is the entire transcript:

The following exchange -- transcribed with the help of HuffPost's Matt Ramos and Dhyana Taylor -- comes after the dashcam video shows Encinia quickly driving toward the rear of Bland's car.

State Trooper Brian Encinia: Hello ma’am. We’re the Texas Highway Patrol and the reason for your stop is because you failed to signal the lane change. Do you have your driver’s license and registration with you? What’s wrong? How long have you been in Texas?

Sandra Bland: Got here just today.

Encinia: OK. Do you have a driver's license? (Pause) OK, where you headed to now? Give me a few minutes.

(Bland inaudible)

(Encinia returns to his car for several minutes, then approaches Bland again.)

Encinia: OK, ma'am. (Pause.) You OK?

Bland: I'm waiting on you. This is your job. I'm waiting on you. When're you going to let me go?

Encinia: I don't know, you seem very really irritated.

Bland: I am. I really am. I feel like it's crap what I'm getting a ticket for. I was getting out of your way. You were speeding up, tailing me, so I move over and you stop me. So yeah, I am a little irritated, but that doesn’t stop you from giving me a ticket, so [inaudible] ticket.

Encinia: Are you done?

Bland: You asked me what was wrong, now I told you.

Encinia: OK.

Bland: So now I'm done, yeah.

Encinia: You mind putting out your cigarette, please? If you don't mind?

Bland: I'm in my car, why do I have to put out my cigarette?

Encinia: Well you can step on out now.

Bland: I don’t have to step out of my car.

Encinia: Step out of the car.

Bland: Why am I ...

Encinia: Step out of the car!

Bland: No, you don’t have the right. No, you don't have the right.

Encinia: Step out of the car.

Bland: You do not have the right. You do not have the right to do this.

Encinia: I do have the right, now step out or I will remove you.

Bland: I refuse to talk to you other than to identify myself. [crosstalk] I am getting removed for a failure to signal?

Encinia: Step out or I will remove you. I’m giving you a lawful order.

Get out of the car now or I’m going to remove you.

Bland: And I’m calling my lawyer.

Encinia: I’m going to yank you out of here. (Reaches inside the car.)

Bland: OK, you’re going to yank me out of my car? OK, alright.

Encinia (calling in backup): 2547.

Bland: Let’s do this.

Encinia: Yeah, we’re going to. (Grabs for Bland.)

Bland: Don’t touch me!

Encinia: Get out of the car!

Bland: Don’t touch me. Don't touch me! I’m not under arrest -- you don't have the right to take me out of the car.

Encinia: You are under arrest!

Bland: I’m under arrest? For what? For what? For what?

Encinia (to dispatch): 2547 county fm 1098 (inaudible) send me another unit. (To Bland) Get out of the car! Get out of the car now!

Bland: Why am I being apprehended? You're trying to give me a ticket for failure ...

Encinia: I said get out of the car!

Bland: Why am I being apprehended? You just opened my --

Encinia: I‘m giving you a lawful order. I’m going to drag you out of here.

Bland: So you’re threatening to drag me out of my own car?

Encinia: Get out of the car!

Bland: And then you’re going to [crosstalk] me?

Encinia: I will light you up! Get out! Now! (Draws stun gun and points it at Bland.)

Bland: Wow. Wow. (Bland exits car.)

Encinia: Get out. Now. Get out of the car!

Bland: For a failure to signal? You’re doing all of this for a failure to signal?

Encinia: Get over there.

Bland: Right. yeah, lets take this to court, let's do this.

Encinia: Go ahead.

Bland: For a failure to signal? Yup, for a failure to signal!

Encinia: Get off the phone!

Bland: (crosstalk)

Encinia: Get off the phone! Put your phone down!

Bland: I’m not on the phone. I have a right to record. This is my property. Sir?

Encinia: Put your phone down right now. Put your phone down!

(Bland slams phone down on her trunk.)

Bland: For a fucking failure to signal. My goodness. Y'all are interesting. Very interesting.

Encinia: Come over here. Come over here now.

Bland: You feelin' good about yourself?

Encinia: Stand right here. Stand right there.

Bland: You feelin' good about yourself? For a failure to signal? You feel real good about yourself don’t you? You feel good about yourself don’t you?

Encinia: Turn around. Turn around. Turn around now. Put your hands behind your back.

Bland: Why am I being arrested?

Encinia: Turn around ...

Bland: Why can't you ...

Encinia: I’m giving you a lawful order. I will tell you.

Bland: Why am I being arrested?

Encinia: Turn around!

Bland: Why won’t you tell me that part?

Encinia: I’m giving you a lawful order. Turn around ...

Bland: Why will you not tell me what's going on?

Encinia: You are not complying.

Bland: I’m not complying 'cause you just pulled me out of my car.

Encinia: Turn around.

Bland: Are you fucking kidding me? This is some bull...

Encinia: Put your hands behind your back.

Bland: 'Cause you know this straight bullshit. And you're full of shit. Full of straight shit. That's all y’all are is some straight scared cops. South Carolina got y’all bitch asses scared. That’s all it is. Fucking scared of a female.

Encinia: If you would’ve just listened.

Bland: I was trying to sign the fucking ticket -- whatever.

Encinia: Stop moving!

Bland: Are you fucking serious?

Encinia: Stop moving!

Bland: Oh I can’t wait 'til we go to court. Ooh I can’t wait. I cannot wait 'til we go to court. I can’t wait. Oh I can’t wait! You want me to sit down now?

Encinia: No.

Bland: Or are you going to throw me to the floor? That would make you feel better about yourself?

Encinia: Knock it off!

Bland: Nah that would make you feel better about yourself. That would make you feel real good wouldn't it? Pussy ass. Fucking pussy. For a failure to signal you’re doing all of this. In little ass Praire View, Texas. My God they must have ...

Encinia: You were getting a warning, until now you’re going to jail.

Bland: I’m getting a -- for what? For what?

Encinia: You can come read.

Bland: I’m getting a warning for what? For what!?

Encinia: Stay right here.

Bland: Well you just pointed me over there! Get your mind right.

Encinia: I said stay over here. Stay over here.

Bland: Ooh I swear on my life, y'all are some pussies. A pussy-ass cop, for a fucking signal you’re gonna take me to jail.

Encinia (to dispatch, or an officer arriving on scene): I got her in control she’s in some handcuffs.

Bland: For a fucking ticket. What a pussy. What a pussy. You’re about to break my fucking wrist!

Encinia: Stop moving.

Bland: I’m standing still! You keep moving me, goddammit.

Encinia: Stay right here. Stand right there.

Bland: Don't touch me. Fucking pussy -- for a traffic ticket (inaudible).

(door slams)

Encinia: Come read right over here. This right here says 'a warning.' You started creating the problems.

Bland: You asked me what was wrong!

Encinia: Do you have anything on your person that's illegal?

Bland: Do I feel like I have anything on me? This a fucking maxi dress.

Encinia: I’m going to remove your glasses.

Bland: This a maxi dress. (Inaudible) Fucking assholes.

Encinia: Come over here.

Bland: You about to break my wrist. Can you stop? You’re about to fucking break my wrist! Stop!!!

Encinia: Stop now! Stop it! If you would stop resisting.

Female officer: Stop resisting ma’am.

Bland: (cries) For a fucking traffic ticket, you are such a pussy. You are such a pussy.

Female officer: No, you are. You should not be fighting.

Encinia: Get on the ground!

Bland: For a traffic signal!

Encinia: You are yanking around, when you pull away from me, you’re resisting arrest.

Bland: Don’t it make you feel real good don’t it? A female for a traffic ticket. Don’t it make you feel good Officer Encinia? You're a real man now. You just slammed me, knocked my head into the ground. I got epilepsy, you motherfucker.

Encinia: Good. Good.

Bland: Good? Good?

Female officer: You should have thought about it before you started resisting.

Bland: Make you feel real good for a female. Y'all strong, y'all real strong.

Encinia: I want you to wait right here.

Bland: I can’t go anywhere with your fucking knee in my back, duh!

Encinia: (to bystander): You need to leave! You need to leave!

(Bland continues screaming, but much of it is inaudible)

Encinia: For a warning you’re going to jail.

Bland: Whatever, whatever.

Encinia: You're going to jail for resisting arrest. Stand up.

Bland: If I could, I can't.

Encinia: OK, roll over.

Bland: I can't even fucking feel my arms.

Encinia: Tuck your knee in, tuck your knee in.

Bland: (Crying): Goddamn. I can't [muffled].

Encinia: Listen, listen. You're going to sit up on your butt.

Bland: You just slammed my head into the ground and you do not even care ...

Encinia: Sit up on your butt.

Female officer: Listen to how he is telling you to get up.

Bland: I can't even hear.

Female officer: Yes you can.

Encinia: Sit up on your butt.

Bland: He slammed my fucking head into the ground.

Encinia: Sit up on your butt.

Bland: What the hell.

Encinia: Now stand up.

Bland: All of this for a traffic signal. I swear to God. All of this for a traffic signal. (To bystander.) Thank you for recording! Thank you! For a traffic signal -- slam me into the ground and everything! Everything! I hope y'all feel good.

Encinia: This officer saw everything.

Female officer: I saw everything.

Bland: And (muffled) No you didn't. You didn't see everything leading up to it ...

Female officer: I'm not talking to you.

Bland: You don't have to.

Encinia: 2547 county. Send me a first-available, for arrest.

Female officer: You okay? You should have Tess check your hand.

Encinia: Yeah, I'm good.

Encinia: She started yanking away and then she kicked me, so I took her straight to the ground.

Female officer: And there you got it right there... I'll search it for you if you want.

Female officer: Yeah.

Second male: I know one thing for sure, it's on video.

Female officer: Yeah.

Second male: You hurt?

Encinia: No.

Encinia (to female officer): Did you see her when we were right here?

Female officer: Yeah, I saw her cause that's where I (inaudible).

Encinia: This is when she pulled with the cuffs.

Paramedic: Your ring got you there?

Encinia: I had the chain, well, not the chain, but

Paramedic: You got the two loops?

Encinia: She didn't kick me too hard but she still kicked me though.

Paramedic: Not through the skin, but you got a nice scratch. I'm a paramedic, that's why I know.

Encinia: I know that, that's why I made you look.

Paramedic: Did she do that?

Encinia: Yeah that's her.

Paramedic: Yeah that's cut through the skin.

Encinia: I wrapped it around her head and got her down.

Encinia (on radio): This is a traffic stop, had a little bit of a incident.

(Silence for several minutes.)

Encinia (apparently to a supervisor): I tried to de-escalate her. It wasn't getting anywhere, at all. I mean I tried to put the Taser away. I tried talking to her and calming her down, and that was not working.

Well, I know, that was when she was in custody, and now I tried to get her detained and get her to just calm down and just calm down. Stop throwing her arms. You know what? She never swung at me, just flailing and stomping around. I said alright that's enough, and that's when I detained her.

There was something going on and she started kicking and kicking.

Yeah, and once I got her in the back of the car, that's why I'm calling you now, because ...

No, we were in the middle of a traffic stop and the traffic stop was not completed. I was just trying to get her out, over to the side and just explain to her what was going on because I couldn't even get her to do what I was telling her. She just started going this is an mf, and you give mf for a ticket and lane change, she just started going.

I just stepped back from the car and was like are you done ma'am? I need to tell you why and what I'm giving you and she just kept on going.

I mean, I don't have serious bodily injury (laughing) but I was kicked.

Assault is if a person commits an offense of intentionally, knowingly or recklessly causing bodily injury to another or you intentionally threaten another with bodily injury.

She's in the back of the car right now. She requested EMS. She said, she said I threw her down intentionally, for nothing. No, I put you down because you kicked me. You were fighting back. I kept telling her to calm down, calm down.

Evading arrest or detention. (Inaudible). Resisting arrest ... She was detained. That's the key and that's why I am calling and asking because she was detained. That's when I was walking her over to the car, just to calm her down and just to (say) stop.

That's when she started kicking. I don't know if it would be resist or if it would be assault. I kinda lean toward assault versus resist because I mean technically, she's under arrest when a traffic stop is initiated, as a lawful stop. You're not free to go. I didn't say you're under arrest, I never said, you know, stop, hands up.

Correct, that did not occur. There was just the assault part.

Like I said, after I got her all her situated and buttoned up as far as getting her in a safe vehicle, under arrest, that's why I'm calling you.

She just moved here, according to her, yesterday, she's from Illinois.

She gave me her driver's license. I came back to the car and started running her stuff. Print it out. Coming to get back to the car to complete and tell her what's she receiving and what to do and so forth.

At that time, she's still very much irritated and so forth. I'm pulling her over for she didn't turn on her signal and so forth and so forth.

She wouldn't even look at me. She's looking straight ahead, just mad.

I'm at the driver's side, I need to get her out of the car and over to the side of the car, you know, on the sidewalk, because I don't want to be in the middle of the road while we're arguing -- or whatever, not arguing, I'm trying to tell her what she's doing but she's arguing with me.

That's the only thing, I mean it too. When I had her down on the ground and the other officer came, I told her stop resisting and that's when I told her you're under arrest. At least I don't think I did.

Yes, she kicked me, she started yanking away and trying to get away. And that's when I grabbed her arm, she's in front of me still. I controlled, I grabbed her by the shoulders and I brought her down into the grass away from the pavement.

Like I said, with something like this, I just call you immediately, after I get to a safe stopping point.

No weapons, she's in handcuffs. You know, I took the lesser of the uhh … I only took enough force as I -- seemed necessary. I even de-escalated once we were on the pavement, you know on the sidewalk. So I allowed time, I'm not saying I just threw her to the ground. I allowed time to de-escalate and so forth. It just kept getting. (laughing) Right, I'm just making that clear.

I got some cuts on my hand, I guess that is an injury, but I don't need medical attention. I got three little circles from I guess the handcuffs when she was twisting away from me.

Over a simple traffic stop. Yeah, I don't get it. I really don't.

Why act like that, I don't know.

Another officer to Bland: Okay ma'am, you're under arrest. You're going to be transported to the Waller County Jail, OK? Alright.

Officer to officer: Alright brother, appreciate it.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Based on the below transcription - where do you feel that the antagonistic thing was said by the officer.

And where in the transcription does she first indicate an attitude to the officer?

I certainly think she was the first one to exhibit hostility, and the things she did and said were, frankly, stupid. That being said, the officer is the professional in that situation, and I'd rather he had not risen to the bait. I really don't have a problem with anything he did or said up until he decided to arrest her for defying his request (I don't think it rose to the level of a command) to put out her cigarette. He probably should have said, in response to her question about why she had to put it out, "I'd rather not breathe smoke or have you distracted. Anyway, I am just giving you a warning today. You need to be sure to signal your lane changes in the future. Please drive carefully. Have a good day."

 

[BoberFett]

I certainly think she was the first one to exhibit hostility, and the things she did and said were, frankly, stupid. That being said, the officer is the professional in that situation, and I'd rather he had not risen to the bait. I really don't have a problem with anything he did or said up until he decided to arrest her for defying his request (I don't think it rose to the level of a command) to put out her cigarette. He probably should have said, in response to her question about why she had to put it out, "I'd rather not breathe smoke or have you distracted. Anyway, I am just giving you a warning today. You need to be sure to signal your lane changes in the future. Please drive carefully. Have a good day."

:thumbsup:

 

[JSt0rm]

A lot of people who want to be cops want to lord over people. That's why they became cops. Average c students with a bent towards Authority™ and guns. We will be better off with robots being cops.

 

[shortylickens]

She's the woman who was jailed in the aftermath of a minor traffic stop in Prarie View, Texas, and who then, 3 days later, supposedly committed suicide in Texas jail because, you know, she had nothing to live except perhaps her new job at the college which was her alma mater, which had brought her back to Texas.

The police dashboard video confirms that the arresting office was on an illegal power trip. Pretty effing disgusting, and sad.

She had an attitude right off the bat, which never helps in a traffic stop.
But the officer was clearly full of piss and vinegar, and sure as hell didnt need to hassle someone over a damn lane change.


Unrelated thought:
Why do cops still pull this shit?
They know they have cameras on them. Do they honestly believe they can get out of trouble if someone presses charges and demands to see the video?

 

[JSt0rm]

Unrelated thought:
Why do cops still pull this shit?
They know they have cameras on them. Do they honestly believe they can get out of trouble if someone presses charges and demands to see the video?

the cameras are new... The cops habit of beating maiming killing and lying are thousands of years old.

 

[davmat787]

A lot of people who want to be cops want to lord over people. That's why they became cops. Average c students with a bent towards Authority™ and guns. We will be better off with robots being cops.

I've heard from multiple sources that one can do TOO WELL on a police academy entrance exam. That departments aren't looking for incredibly smart and adjusted independent thinkers, but rather those who are smart enough to follow, but not question, the status quo.



I have no proof of this but have heard this from multiple sources close enough to different municipal police departments that its stuck with me. And the behavior we've witnessed recently seems to support this too.

 

[JSt0rm]

I've heard from multiple sources that one can do TOO WELL on a police academy entrance exam. That departments aren't looking for incredibly smart and adjusted independent thinkers, but rather those who are smart enough to follow, but not question, the status quo.



I have no proof of this but have heard this from multiple sources close enough to different municipal police departments that its stuck with me. And the behavior we've witnessed recently seems to support this too.

OH I have proof...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-court-ruled-you-can-be-too-smart-to-be-a-cop/5420630

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

 

[cabri]

I certainly think she was the first one to exhibit hostility, and the things she did and said were, frankly, stupid. That being said, the officer is the professional in that situation, and I'd rather he had not risen to the bait. I really don't have a problem with anything he did or said up until he decided to arrest her for defying his request (I don't think it rose to the level of a command) to put out her cigarette. He probably should have said, in response to her question about why she had to put it out, "I'd rather not breathe smoke or have you distracted. Anyway, I am just giving you a warning today. You need to be sure to signal your lane changes in the future. Please drive carefully. Have a good day."

Thanks.

I have said this multiple times in this thread.

The race baiters and anti-law want to place the blame on the police from the git go.

They choose to assign NO[\b] blame on the girl.

Some are so blind that they accuse the officer of TROLLING[\B] the girl to justify his actions.

 

[werepossum]

werepossum: See, this is the proggie mentality. It's always black and white, someone is completely correct and someone is completely wrong. Real life is virtually never black and white, it's shades of gray. It's ONLY shades of gray, the occasional Chattanooga or Charleston shooting aside. Both acted stupidly. As a result, one killed herself and one painted a giant target on his back.

I do not have any idea what a proggie mentality is in your mind. I think of myself as a progressive and I see that as meaning a person who integrates opposites at a higher level of understanding. I see you trying to shoe-horn a discussion of black and whites into a gray box when reality is in color. You talk of gray because it is you who has the black and white mentality.

I live in a world where logic and sense and reason have meaning. I do not accept that one person's opinion is as good as another. I believe that there are real facts, facts about reality and facts about human nature and that understanding them yields a product called wisdom. I believe that humanity can be spread out on a spectrum that range from fools to very wise people. I believe, therefore, that people can act with varying degrees of stupidity and can take positions in society that place on them varying degrees of responsibility to exercise their power wisely.

Because of this, I see a black woman, with all the baggage being black and a woman in contemporary America carries with it, and with reported mental health issues being stopped by a police officer who, because of the power we grant to that job, not only has a moral and societal duty, and also training, not only to allay tension at a traffic stop, but actually goaded and antagonized her to react. Both were stupid but that's not the point. One could not keep her cool when provoked, an enormously common phenomenon and one for which society has tried to tamper by careful and thoughtful police training and selection of quality officers, and one who intentionally abused his power, authority, and responsibility. You wish to point out that they are both at fault, but they are not equally both at fault. One reacted as is normal for people who suffer traditional ingrained societal abuse, and one violated his moral responsibility to conduct himself on the job with professionalism and dignity.

The result is that the woman is dead and we still don't know why.



w: And if we can't be rational, then no basis for any kind of society is possible, for we cannot all make allowances for each other. We're all just broken toys who would be better off just shooting whomever annoys us since we're just unable to interact rationally.

M: This is black and white thinking, in my opinion. We have a society and we are all members of it while occupying various levels of rational capacity. The fact that we are not all as reasonable as we should be is the allowance we must make for each other. We are all broken toys, my friend, just broken to different degrees and in different ways. The notion that we might as well kill each other as a consequence is completely insane. Humans have been evolving for millions of years to a higher conscious state. It is the highest level of aspiration for a human who is more advanced to give the guy behind him a hand up. It is self hate that makes us want to drag everybody else down. I mentioned, I'm sure, that the feeling that we are worthless, while what we do feel, is completely and totally wrong. But we are all defective because we don't believe that in our heart of hearts, just one level up from where the Heart of God is hidden away.

Well said, Moonie.

Especially my parts.

Trained professional with gun has more of a burden in verbal interactions to deescalate. The first antagonistic thing said was by the cop. From the moment Bland said she was aggravated it was his duty to calm the situation down and he did the opposite.

With that last part, I agree. We need a fundamental change in the way we recruit and train cops. It's harder to find calm, reasonable people who are also willing to run toward the gunfire, but it's worth the search.

I certainly think she was the first one to exhibit hostility, and the things she did and said were, frankly, stupid. That being said, the officer is the professional in that situation, and I'd rather he had not risen to the bait. I really don't have a problem with anything he did or said up until he decided to arrest her for defying his request (I don't think it rose to the level of a command) to put out her cigarette. He probably should have said, in response to her question about why she had to put it out, "I'd rather not breathe smoke or have you distracted. Anyway, I am just giving you a warning today. You need to be sure to signal your lane changes in the future. Please drive carefully. Have a good day."

Pretty much. He needs some institutional curiosity to find out why someone is so nervous and agitated to avoid missing the man with his wife's body in the trunk or the woman carrying a hundred pounds of meth, but he also needs the skills to avoid making her more nervous and agitated while trying to find out why she is so nervous and agitated. Frankly it's not a job I would want.

 

[davmat787]

Werepossum, I agree wholeheartedly about sweeping changes need to be made in police selection and training.



Part of the problem probably stems from giving so much authority to fresh officers who don't have any life experience. Going straight from high school to wearing a badge in the current culture of most police departments doesn't work. Once someone becomes an officer their entire experience and concerns with daily life will be vastly different than non officers.

 

[werepossum]

Werepossum, I agree wholeheartedly about sweeping changes need to be made in police selection and training.

Part of the problem probably stems from giving so much authority to fresh officers who don't have any life experience. Going straight from high school to wearing a badge in the current culture of most police departments doesn't work. Once someone becomes an officer their entire experience and concerns with daily life will be vastly different than non officers.

No doubt. At one point more than half my home county's police force was under 25. I don't think anyone should be able to be a cop until age twenty-five. They are giving lethal force and authorization for its use to 18 year olds with three months of classroom training and six months of field training. Superficially that looks like the military, but the military has much more thorough training and much more supervision.

 

[davmat787]

No doubt. At one point more than half my home county's police force was under 25. I don't think anyone should be able to be a cop until age twenty-five. They are giving lethal force and authorization for its use to 18 year olds with three months of classroom training and six months of field training. Superficially that looks like the military, but the military has much more thorough training and much more supervision.

And those programs to employ combat veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan could have used better candidate vetting now that we know more about PTSD, aka shell shock thank you George Carlin, and given the tremendously sad rate of veteran suicide.

On the surface soldier to municipal LEO might seem like a straightforward transition but it hasn't turned out to be the case from what I understand.

 

[werepossum]

And those programs to employ combat veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan could have used better candidate vetting now that we know more about PTSD, aka shell shock thank you George Carlin, and given the tremendously sad rate of veteran suicide.

On the surface soldier to municipal LEO might seem like a straightforward transition but it hasn't turned out to be the case from what I understand.

Agreed.

 

[HomerJS]

Thanks.

I have said this multiple times in this thread.

The race baiters and anti-law want to place the blame on the police from the git go.

They choose to assign NO[\b] blame on the girl.

Some are so blind that they accuse the officer of TROLLING[\B] the girl to justify his actions.

She was irritated. She admitted that because cop trailed her she tried to get out of his way and he pulled her over. This is from her POV but she is the civilian.

The cop saying "are you finished" was his snide way of demeaning her story and she sensed that.

Now once she said she was irritated where in your transcript does cop attempt to deescalate? I don't see it.

Also I never said the cop was 100% at fault. I clearly said majority of blame. I like how you make points by being inaccurate.

 

[Caravaggio]

...... I see a black woman, with all the baggage being black and a woman in contemporary America carries with it, and with reported mental health issues being stopped by a police officer who, because of the power we grant to that job, not only has a moral and societal duty, and also training, not only to allay tension at a traffic stop, but actually goaded and antagonized her to react. Both were stupid but that's not the point. One could not keep her cool when provoked, an enormously common phenomenon and one for which society has tried to tamper by careful and thoughtful police training and selection of quality officers, and one who intentionally abused his power, authority, and responsibility. You wish to point out that they are both at fault, but they are not equally both at fault. One reacted as is normal for people who suffer traditional ingrained societal abuse, and one violated his moral responsibility to conduct himself on the job with professionalism and dignity.

The result is that the woman is dead and we still don't know why.

Just to say, that was a fine piece of writing.

I watched the whole tape. An awful dance of futility with a hideously inevitable outcome.

Most of us know the rules of conduct for being pulled over:
Agree, obey, admit, apologise, expect to pay, drive on, "have a nice day".
But her history would not allow her to fake such compliance, as we all must in 'cop world', for an easy life. And his history demanded complete submission when challenged by a 'woman of colour'. A fatal collision of ill-met protagonists.

Why was she locked-up for so long? Was she held in custody just to 'break' her?
To provoke a suicide is a crime.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Why was she locked-up for so long? Was she held in custody just to 'break' her?
To provoke a suicide is a crime.

She could have been out in a matter of hours, all it took was for someone to post her bail.

I've heard some claim she couldn't have been bailed out over the weekend, bail bondsmen operate 24/7/365 in the state of Texas. Most people post bail in a few hours.

 

[HumblePie]

She could have been out in a matter of hours, all it took was for someone to post her bail.

I've heard some claim she couldn't have been bailed out over the weekend, bail bondsmen operate 24/7/365 in the state of Texas. Most people post bail in a few hours.

Don't you still need collateral for a bond?