Sandra Bland Dashboard Video Released

[JSt0rm]

I understand that black people often resent the police. That is a fairly complex chicken-and-egg situation, since while it is objectively true that black people are more often targeted by police, they are also far more likely to commit serious crimes, particularly violent ones, than any other ethnic group (in fairness, men, not women, are overwhelmingly the culprits). For this reason I think your use of the word "prey" to describe the police's behavior is inapposite. In any case, these facts do nothing to change my view that it's important as a matter of personal safety to treat police with a modicum of respect. It is in fact probably more important for black people to do so, since they are (often unfairly) more likely to have interactions with the police than white people.

I do not like the way this officer handled the situation, but that doesn't mean he bears 100% of the blame here. Bland was looking for a fight and she got one.

It would be faster for us as a society to change the police behavior to better align with peoples rights then to try and change a bunch of people who aren't on the government payroll. This cop said she kicked him. He falsely gave her a felony charge because she had attitude and was uppity? Black lives dont matter.

Maybe all black people need to refuse every order by a cop. Can you imagine how fast shit would change if 20% of the population said no to the unjust stops? Can you imagine if the juries in this country began to nullify laws aimed at keeping black people down? On a long enough timeline that will happen. Because more and more people are waking up to the injustice perpetrated on a race of people by law enforcement.

 

[JSt0rm]

stuff in the 1930's that Americans had to debate was worth fighting and dying for: German Nationalism that involved the complete subjugation and organized removal of Jewish people

stuff people on the internet in the 2010's say is worth fighting and dying over: Police pr problem

No. Not police pr problems. People will die for their rights.

 

[mizzou]

No. Not police pr problems. People will die for their rights.

forgive me if it sure seems like more people are concerned over substance of image and context then actual rights violations

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Ignoring or even refusing to comply with a cop's order isn't going to win you anything but a free taxi ride to the gray bar hotel.

This is a problem. It's a huge problem. This isn't what we have cops for and the cops need to drop the narcissistic attitude.

 

[JSt0rm]

forgive me if it sure seems like more people are concerned over substance of image and context then actual rights violations

People are concerned about cops trumping up charges and preying on a segment of the population. Cops being so fearful for their lives that they will willingly extinguish yours just for a remote chance that they may be injured or killed.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

It would be faster for us as a society to change the police behavior to better align with peoples rights then to try and change a bunch of people who aren't on the government payroll. This cop said she kicked him. He falsely gave her a felony charge because she had attitude and was uppity? Black lives dont matter.

Maybe all black people need to refuse every order by a cop. Can you imagine how fast shit would change if 20% of the population said no to the unjust stops? Can you imagine if the juries in this country began to nullify laws aimed at keeping black people down? On a long enough timeline that will happen. Because more and more people are waking up to the injustice perpetrated on a race of people by law enforcement.

Presumably the reason she was charged with kicking the officer is that . . . wait for it . . . she kicked the officer. Unless you have evidence that that she didn't, you don't have any basis for your accusation that Bland was "falsely" charged.

As to the second paragraph of your post, I don't know what you're talking about. The principal reason black people are disproportionally likely to have encounters with law enforcement is that black people as a whole (particularly young black men) are overwhelmingly likelier than any other group to commit serious, and particularly violent crimes. It is an unfortunate situation whose root causes are complicated, but is also the reality that police have to confront on a daily basis. I don't see that as an "injustice perpetrated on a race of people by law enforcement." I don't know precisely what laws you are alluding to as being intended to "keep black people down" - can you identify some?

I find your "black lives don't matter" rhetoric silly and obstructive of real discussion. Black lives absolutely matter, just as much as anyone else's. That doesn't mean black people can do no wrong, and have no culpability in their interactions with police, however.

 

[JSt0rm]

I don't believe she kicked the cop.

Maybe I should say

"injustice perpetrated on a race of people by society."

As for the laws. Do I have to? I can pick out a bunch of laws from the past that made what we have today. Do those count?

 

[JSt0rm]

let me ask you another question:

Lets say you, a white middle aged lawyer was stopped for a illegal lane change and the cop was pissed the fuck off for who knows what reason. Lets say he pulled you from the car and pulled you away from the camera. Lets say he then charged you with kicking him ( a felony) do you think this charge would stick? Do you think you, a middle aged white lawyer would be charged with assaulting a officer and it would stick? If your answer is no then we are already seeing the injustice in the system.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I don't believe she kicked the cop.

Maybe I should say

"injustice perpetrated on a race of people by society."

As for the laws. Do I have to? I can pick out a bunch of laws from the past that made what we have today. Do those count?

No, they don't. You are the one who suggested that juries nullify cases brought based on laws intended to "keep black people down." They can't do that if the laws no longer exist.

 

[JSt0rm]

No, they don't. You are the one who suggested that juries nullify cases brought based on laws intended to "keep black people down." They can't do that if the laws no longer exist.

But in protest they can nullify laws that have a broad reach. If things got bad enough.

 

[cabri]

To you... A white middle aged lawyer. Black people have a lot of resentment towards police and for good reason. Police should probably understand that at this point and walk on egg shells around black people. Enforce the law but don't go all respect my authority on them.

Again this is another case of black lives dont matter. If you think the next traffic stop is going to be any easier you are mistaken. You can only segment and prey on a minority population for so long before they stop giving you respect.

They should not have to walk on egg shells.

Doing so, is then acknowledging that interaction with a black person is to be different than a white. And that color matters.

I thought that the civil rights movement was to prove that all are created equal; not some more than most.

What you are asking is the a black person is not to be considered the same as a person of a different color than black. Preferential treatment.

Which is it; you can not have it both ways.

 

[JSt0rm]

like if I was on a jury for a drug crime I would push to nullify the drug law.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

let me ask you another question:

Lets say you, a white middle aged lawyer was stopped for a illegal lane change and the cop was pissed the fuck off for who knows what reason. Lets say he pulled you from the car and pulled you away from the camera. Lets say he then charged you with kicking him ( a felony) do you think this charge would stick? Do you think you, a middle aged white lawyer would be charged with assaulting a officer and it would stick? If your answer is no then we are already seeing the injustice in the system.

Your hypothetical makes no sense in that it doesn't track with what happened in this case (not to mention that it presupposes a cop acting completely irrationally and criminally for no reason). I have no way of knowing what a jury would make of the case, and that would drive the verdict. Obviously if I were believed, I'd be acquitted. If the officer were believed, I'd be convicted.

 

[JSt0rm]

They should not have to walk on egg shells.

Doing so, is then acknowledging that interaction with a black person is to be different than a white. And that color matters.

I thought that the civil rights movement was to prove that all are created equal; not some more than most.

What you are asking is the a black person is not to be considered the same as a person of a different color than black. Preferential treatment.

Which is it; you can not have it both ways.

No Im asking for cops to think a little bit about why someone is giving them attitude and not just reach for the club and beat them. The why matters.

 

[JSt0rm]

Your hypothetical makes no sense in that it doesn't track with what happened in this case (not to mention that it presupposes a cop acting completely irrationally and criminally for no reason). I have no way of knowing what a jury would make of the case, and that would drive the verdict. Obviously if I were believed, I'd be acquitted. If the officer were believed, I'd be convicted.

But in your gut what do you think would happen.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

But in your gut what do you think would happen.

I have no clue. I don't consider the hypothetical remotely plausible, and I have no way of knowing how it would turn out.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

All I can say after watching the video is simply "live by the sword, die by the sword."

 

[JSt0rm]

I have no clue. I don't consider the hypothetical remotely plausible, and I have no way of knowing how it would turn out.

You know what I think would happen? You would bring the full resources available to you down on the prosecution and not only would you not be cfound guilty but you would have a civil lawsuit ready to go against the city. Thats what I think would happen.

do you know what happens to poor black people who are falsely charged?

 

[Viper GTS]

There's egg shells, and then there's completely losing your shit over something that should have been a minor exchange.

He probably should have de-escalated and just walked away, but in the end her death is not on him. This sounds like more of a mental health case than anything else. What else would possibly explain reacting the way she did and then (apparently) hanging herself?

I haven't seen much detail on what happened at the jail, was she alone in her cell? If so are we seriously entertaining the idea that someone in a position of authority came into her cell and murdered her? That just seems extraordinarily unlikely, and I will be shocked if any evidence ever supports that.

Viper GTS

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

You know what I think would happen? You would bring the full resources available to you down on the prosecution and not only would you not be cfound guilty but you would have a civil lawsuit ready to go against the city. Thats what I think would happen.

do you know what happens to poor black people who are falsely charged?

I very much doubt that any police officer inclined to falsely accuse me of a crime would be foolish enough to admit later that he had done so, and in the absence of an admission like that, or some clear evidence that he had lied, I wouldn't have a very appealing civil rights action against him (I happen to have handled many police cases, representing both plaintiffs and police officers - my partner and I actually obtained the largest punitive damages verdict against a police officer in the history of the state).

In general, when people are falsely charged, regardless of who they are, their ability to fight the charges depends largely on the quality of the defense they receive. I have no idea whether black people are disproportionately likely to be intentionally falsely charged, but I would certainly agree that in general black people are less well-equipped to defend themselves if and when this occurs, since in general black people have fewer financial resources than the public as a whole.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

There's egg shells, and then there's completely losing your shit over something that should have been a minor exchange.

He probably should have de-escalated and just walked away, but in the end her death is not on him. This sounds like more of a mental health case than anything else. What else would possibly explain reacting the way she did and then (apparently) hanging herself?

I haven't seen much detail on what happened at the jail, was she alone in her cell? If so are we seriously entertaining the idea that someone in a position of authority came into her cell and murdered her? That just seems extraordinarily unlikely, and I will be shocked if any evidence ever supports that.

Viper GTS

I agree. As to your last point, though, I think there are definitely people (some of whom, unfortunately, are family members of mine) whose opinion of police is so jaded that they would presume a homicide rather than the far simpler, more plausible explanation that Bland killed herself. The whole situation is very sad but she does seem like an emotionally fragile, angry person, and to me suicide is far far likelier than some kind of intentional killing.

 

[Darwin333]

Nothing was confirmed to be illegal. The sheriff's office said procedures weren't followed correctly but that doesn't equate to illegal activity.

PSA: comply with police orders and complain about them later on after you have been sent on your merry way.

The article stated that he was in violation of arrest procedures, I take that to mean that he didn't have the right to arrest her. If that is in fact true I don't see how it can't be illegal to detain, handcuff, force that person to another location and not allow them to leave. That's generally called kidnapping unless you have the right to do it.

 

[xBiffx]

The only difference in your narrative versus mine is motivation. You say he is arresting her for not putting out a cig. I say he is going on a power trip after she said she is irritated. The sequence of events is the same.

For what reason are you claiming he wanted the cig out?

Londo provided a very reasonable reason back on page one.

 

[xBiffx]

This is a problem. It's a huge problem. This isn't what we have cops for and the cops need to drop the narcissistic attitude.

So lets do it your way. In what world does it makes sense to have police where you can ignore them whenever you want for whatever reason you want to give. What is the point of police if they have no authority to do their job. Where ignoring them for any reason is OK.

 

[xBiffx]

The article stated that he was in violation of arrest procedures, I take that to mean that he didn't have the right to arrest her. If that is in fact true I don't see how it can't be illegal to detain, handcuff, force that person to another location and not allow them to leave. That's generally called kidnapping unless you have the right to do it.

That's your mistake. That would be an illegal arrest and that hasn't been mentioned anywhere that I've seen.

Not following procedure means that the way he conducted the arrest was incorrect, not that the arrest was incorrect. If the arrest was illegal, the procedure for it being incorrect is meaningless. Don't you think that stories would have said it was illegal, if it was in fact illegal, instead of everyone stating that procedures were violated?